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Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

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posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
I'm sorry, it's unfortunate and possibly negligent. However, I tend to agree that it does not appear the Russian jets were acting in a hostile manner toward Turkey, but in the same breath this does not excuse a airspace / border incursion with armed fighter jets...17 seconds or 17 hours is irrelevant.


It's done all the time ...

NATO is violating foreign airspace, all the time. They do that, whenever they enter Syrian airspace. They do that all over Europe, and Russia does the same thing towards the US and UK, as well as US/UK does that towards Russia. To some extend there are "deals" going on, where UK is allowed to fly "spy" flights over Russia, and Russia in turn allowed to fly "spy" flights over Germany (Make note here, that it's Britain that decides Russia can fly over Germany).

The situation here, is that Turkey paints Russia as it's enemy ... despite Turkey "claiming" to be against ISIS, while at the same time, Turkey obviously violates Syrian airspace when it attacked the Russian plane.

So, your argument falls on itself.




posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: asen_y2k

Turkey crossed the red line - Pushkov on Russian State TV


So its crossing a red line by defending their airspace..


Putin is a moron.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:28 PM
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originally posted by: asen_y2k
From a well known reporter:


Putin being rushed back to Moscow and convened NSC meeting in light of jet and helicopter shootdowns. Weighing military response


Is your source classified / wanting to remain unnamed?



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: victor7

Alright, post your information on Turks supporting ISIS.

I want to read it.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:29 PM
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a reply to: bjarneorn

Syria can shoot down coalition aircraft then, just as turkey can when their airspace is also violated.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: voyger2
a reply to: Xcathdra

But is it suficient to risk a war with Russia? For 17 seconds Turkish airplane could also enter syrian airspace by mistake, in any time because of being so close to the limits of their borders. That should give anyone the right to shot down an airplane turkis or russian?






Actually if one looks at the flight paths provided up thread it does appear that the Turks also violated airspace with the F-16's western? loop.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:31 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
Putin is a moron.

Actually, the guy is quite smart ... something that can't be said about you. It's already been posted that the plane is downed in Syria ... to down the plane, Turkey violates Syrian airspace. The hostile action, is done by Turkey in Syrian airspace ... and this airspace, is under Russian control.

Well, we can argue how much control the Russians actually have this airspace, since one of their planes can be shot down so easily. One has to ask, where was the wingman and where was their backup?



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

errr no. Do you actually believe that the every-day muslims want a caliphate, love ISIS and wish to destroy democracy? That's insane. The vast majority of them in the West and elsewhere are just normal people doing their jobs and seeing to their families. Don't forget that many of them came to our countries to escape such things as Sharia Law etc. Don't demonise them. By saying this about a massive chunk of the world's population, you show that you have lapped up the "divide and conquer" strategy of the media and people in control.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: bjarneorn

And you have proof of this?



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: XTexan

originally posted by: SonOfThor
Is it possible that the 10 warnings happened while the Russian plane was being tracked on a course heading for the Turkish border, that it would be fired upon if it crossed the border?

Just offering an alternative view.


I'm ignorant of the way things like this work. But if I'm a Russian pilot, how do I know what the Turkish guy on the radio is saying? How do they know what frequency?


Because all aircraft monitor the Guard channels, and aircrew should be proficient in rudimentary English. There is a clear set of procedures followed to avoid things like this. That's why the investigation(s) will be interesting.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: Darkblade71

Ask... and you shall receive

Links between Turkey and ISIS are now Undeniable

Enjoy the read!



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Of course there will not be a war between nato and Russia. In the end it is just an agreement which can easily be broken.
In fact, a country that is behind IS should have been thrown out of nato a long time ago.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: crazyewok


Turkey should clean it #ing house out and stop the support of terrorists!

I dont want the UK to shed one drop of blood NATO or not over a country thats backing terrorists!


Turks have had 2.5million refugees and Turks don't support ISIS .

Get your facts right .

If NATO is meant to dissolve as a result of this incident so be it .

British Interests in the Eastern Med will definetely be better when Russians are in charge , right ?




What has this got to do with refugees?

Turkey does support terrorists. Turkey provide a safe passage for terrorists, Turkey turns a blind eye to terrorists, Turkey buys stolen oil from terrorists.


Your posts in this thread totally takes the mickey .


Turks and ISIS are enemies . This little fact is unknown to you yet you have a strongly biased opinion .

Turks have their own operatives in ISIS or any other Western Created Organisation in the Middle East .

64 countries buy oil from ISIS .

Get over it .


Don't kill Anti - ISIS TURKMENS of SYRIA and NO ONE SHOOTS at the planes , capish ?



Can you provide examples of my posts that take the 'mickey'?

Look, it's clear to everybody that performs even the mildest of research on the issue that Turkey provides incredible 'indirect' support to ISIS.

So, I'm not sure what else I can say to you other than... Happy researching.


I am in Istanbul and lived in Turkey for last 2 years .

I am telling you that Turks don't support ISIS . As a fellow ATS'er , I've done my job .

Feel free to ignore the opinions of ATS members who are on ground so to speak .



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: bjarneorn

Syria can shoot down coalition aircraft then, just as turkey can when their airspace is also violated.


Why would they wanna do that? After all, coalition forces are targeting ISIS and not Russians ... however, Turkey appears to be targeting Russians and not ISIS.

The rest is irrelevant.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: bjarneorn

They violated turkish airspace and no amount of personal denial on your part, or you personal attack on me will change that fact.


+3 more 
posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:34 PM
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As I understand, the real reason why Turkey shot down the Russian jet, is that Russian jets bomb oil trucks going to Turkey.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: gflyg
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Even if that airspace is a 5 mile buffer zone inside syria that nobody recognizes but turkey?


That's going to be an interesting facet. Not the same.

It'd be like the US overflying the Chinese man-made islands. Not illegal, but might provoke a response from the Chinese.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: Ove38

There is skulduggery at work here and i hope the
truth is outed.

If Turkey is shown to be co-operating with ISIS then they should be ejected
from NATO Immediately.
edit on Tue, 24 Nov 2015 12:37:37 -06003712America/ChicagoTuesday4 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: crazyewok


Turkey should clean it #ing house out and stop the support of terrorists!

I dont want the UK to shed one drop of blood NATO or not over a country thats backing terrorists!


Turks have had 2.5million refugees and Turks don't support ISIS .

Get your facts right .

If NATO is meant to dissolve as a result of this incident so be it .

British Interests in the Eastern Med will definetely be better when Russians are in charge , right ?




What has this got to do with refugees?

Turkey does support terrorists. Turkey provide a safe passage for terrorists, Turkey turns a blind eye to terrorists, Turkey buys stolen oil from terrorists.


Your posts in this thread totally takes the mickey .


Turks and ISIS are enemies . This little fact is unknown to you yet you have a strongly biased opinion .

Turks have their own operatives in ISIS or any other Western Created Organisation in the Middle East .

64 countries buy oil from ISIS .

Get over it .


Don't kill Anti - ISIS TURKMENS of SYRIA and NO ONE SHOOTS at the planes , capish ?



Can you provide examples of my posts that take the 'mickey'?

Look, it's clear to everybody that performs even the mildest of research on the issue that Turkey provides incredible 'indirect' support to ISIS.

So, I'm not sure what else I can say to you other than... Happy researching.


I am in Istanbul and lived in Turkey for last 2 years .

I am telling you that Turks don't support ISIS . As a fellow ATS'er , I've done my job .

Feel free to ignore the opinions of ATS members who are on ground so to speak .


No, the Turks maybe don't (quite a lot of you do) however your government most certainly provides indirect assistance. The border control and oil being the stand-out winners.

I'm not ignoring anybody, hense the replies.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:37 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: voyger2

They were warned prior to entering turkish airspace.


Xcathdra, I commend you on keeping to facts and not rising to apologists from all sides but strangely enough pro Russian. I would dearly love to see how some of these people would react if its own borders were violated by armed forces from another country where warnings were ignored..... never mind, sure it would be Obamas fault whatever the outcome.




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