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Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

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posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:36 AM
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I am of firm mind that a conventional WW3 (i.e. between super powers) is not possible in shadow of nuclear weapons. All future wars will either be war by proxy or all out nuclear Armageddon. History has demonstrated this since the Korean War (Viet Nam, Grenada, Afghanistan (Russians), Balkans, Iraq and Afghanistan (coalition), etc.). As we have seen, none of these wars are "winnable". They are not 'winnable' because (thankfully) no one has had the intestinal fortitude to push the proverbial "button", and this is what it would take to truly result in unconditional surrender. The only war which came close was Gulf War I.

So, I don't think we need to worry too much about WW3 breaking out over the loss of one Russian fighter during a questionable NATO airspace incursion over Turkey. Nor will this will have any material effect on NATO (structurally or strategically). In my humble opinion, Turkey was wrong and overreacted in this situation, and will likely bow to political pressure from the West and apologize before it's all over. This may not be a public apology, but behind closed doors.

Now if the Russians were to "invade" Turkey under the guise of stopping ISIS (or furthering Assad) this would be a different matter entirely! However, the likelihood of this happening is next to zero...particularly given the fact that Russia has no troops on the ground in Syria. The time to start worrying is if/when Russia puts ground troops in Syria to prop up Assad, but this is a big IF...and very unlikely.

That the fighter jet fell in Syria is proof positive of nothing regarding airspace incursions. The damaged fighter was still flying after being hit, it's not like it was a ball of flaming wreckage. So it is highly likely the fighter stayed aloft for several miles after being hit which explains why it crashed inside Syria. I'm sure the very first thing the Russian pilots did once they were engaged was to turn towards Syrian airspace. In any case, the Russians will pound this drum in the media anyway...but it means nothing.

Regarding the downed helicopter; the helicopter was likely downed by ground based ISIS forces. What will be interesting to see is what, if anything, the Russians find as part of their investigation into this event. For example, if they find proof positive that a surface to air missile supplied to the rebels by the US to be the cause, this could cause things to heat up. However, not even that would start "WW3". It will likely result in some hostile rhetoric, but other than that nothing will come of it.

The larger issue is Assad himself. Now that ISIS has become nearly indistinguishable from the rebels fighting Assad, the US would do well to withdraw support from the region altogether. Let the Russians take on ISIS. Much like the west, they will not prevail either, but in their zeal to fight ISIS they will also heavily damage Assad's infrastructure in the process. This is a win-win for the west.

Restraint is the better part of valor in this conflict.




posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:36 AM
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What actions do you recommend. All out war?


originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: madmick
Very true. We can only hope people sit down and calm down.


No, this is the wrong time to calm down ... this is the time to act.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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ignore
edit on 24-11-2015 by mr-lizard because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: Belgianbloke
a reply to: asen_y2k

I think ( not sure ) 2 different vids from the same plane. Big news like this would spread like wildfire.

ALSO update

RT : ISIS has billions of dollars from selling oil; going from Syria to Turkey - Putin.


The death of second pilot plus the heli brought down was first reported in Turkish media then on english after an hour. I will wait dor the confirmation of the new shoot downs. Hope its not true though.

Keep posting.
The Turks have been fairly early and accurate so far.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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The second pilot might be dead.

I think the helicopter thing was a hoax or wrong, the only place that reported it in the UK was the express and the express is not very reliable. Seems like they got the 'news' from twitter rather than any valid sources.
edit on 24-11-2015 by mr-lizard because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:37 AM
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originally posted by: mr-lizard

originally posted by: asen_y2k
TWO MORE AIRCRAFTS DOWNED!

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Sourced from Tukish members on an English language defence forum. Till now all their previous news turned out correct.


That's not right is it? That's just two videos of the first incident?


Video shows surface to air if I am not mistaken. The SU was shot by air to air by F16.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:38 AM
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originally posted by: Ploutonas


Russia evacuates its citizens from Turkey link


This is very telling, will wait for a better source tho.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: asen_y2k

I might be wrong then, but I'm not getting any news on any of my feeds. Thanks for posting though, I'll update if I get anything.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: asen_y2k

Not sure if this is posted yet....

Link

video of them shooting the pilot and the aftermath



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: mr-lizard

The second pilot might be dead.

I think the helicopter thing was a hoax or wrong, the only place that reported it in the UK was the express and the express is not very reliable. Seems like they got the 'news' from twitter rather than any valid sources.


Heli news has been confimd on BBC and most other main news sites.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: mr-lizard
a reply to: asen_y2k

I might be wrong then, but I'm not getting any news on any of my feeds. Thanks for posting though, I'll update if I get anything.


I am keeping an open eye for other souces. Please post if you find anything.
edit on 24/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

edit on 24/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: asen_y2k

Not sure if this is posted yet....

Link

video of them shooting the pilot and the aftermath


That looks like an old video edited together with new footage. For one thing the Russians had white parachutes not red.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: matafuchs

Lets arm the "Moderate rebels" they said
It will be fine they said


Damn Animals.

UPDATE : LAVROV cancels Turkey visit on NOV 25



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: asen_y2k

I got your link translated by a turk. It apparently says, they don't know exactly what is coming down on that footage and that it may be another downing



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:42 AM
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They are saying it could be Syiran rebels or someone else killed them when they parachuted to the ground.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:42 AM
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originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: mr-lizard

The second pilot might be dead.

I think the helicopter thing was a hoax or wrong, the only place that reported it in the UK was the express and the express is not very reliable. Seems like they got the 'news' from twitter rather than any valid sources.


Heli news has been confimd on BBC and most other main news sites.


Can you link please (not the express link)

I can't see anything on the bbc about the helicopter, just the plane.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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Lavrov cancelled visit to turkey. It was set to happen tomorrow.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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originally posted by: Hellas
a reply to: asen_y2k

I got your link translated by a turk. It apparently says, they don't know exactly what is coming down on that footage and that it may be another downing



Thanks a lot mate. So its another downing, but they have yet to confirm what exactly was downed. Right?
edit on 24/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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Turkey will be reported (most possibly) UN 51 and will be considered as a criminal state (supporting criminals). Russia will have the right to attack turkey as part of the anti-terrorism war.

Turks asked for it.

I am very positive and having this feeling, according to bold turk/monkey moves and decisions, they may try to close the black seas entries for the russian warships. That could lead into turkeys extermination.


The problem is I live in a Hellenic Island near turkey and I hope we dont have any nuking or leftovers from little bombs in our doorstep, other than that, we dont give a thing for it...
edit on 24-11-2015 by Ploutonas because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: Hellas

Keep us posted as to the other side's story mate !

edit on 24-11-2015 by Timely because: (no reason given)



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