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39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me
The Pharisees knew the scripture well but Jesus went against their supposed knowledge showing them to be wrong.
The word used for 'within' here literally means 'within', not 'among you' or 'in your midst' like some translations imply.
Within us, not out there in the world.
, even though he tells us plainly many times that he is "THE SON OF GOD" not God in the flesh as John says in the first chapter of his gospel...
People said many things about him that weren't true... including the fact that he claimed to be God, which he did not... You should keep reading that passage instead of just stopping when you find what you want to hear...
And yet again we find that Jesus merely claimed to have existed before this incarnation... and not claiming to be God
Just saying I AM is not a declaration of himself being the Father... they are not one and the same... Just as when two become one In marriage they are ONE but not one and the same.
Jesus used the scriptures people understood, the ones he was raised on to relate to those he was speaking to... but he also knew what was of God and what was not, which is why he didn't use a lot of scripture in his sermons... only bits and pieces of them again, to relate to his audience..
The greek word for son, is huios, and properly it means a son by birth or adoption. Figuratively it means anyone sharing the same nature as their Father. The strongs number is 5207 if you want to look it up yourself. Jesus was saying that he shared the same nature as God. Again the Jews understood this and it is precisely why they tried to seize him. It is also the reason the Jews had him crucified, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.” You are pretending that conversation between two Jews would be simply confusing. Thats not the case the reactions of the Jews explain it perfectly. Not only that it is the same claim his followers died for proclaiming after his death. You are trying to rewrite history.
I didn't stop when I found what I wanted to hear. I just didn't want to over whelm you with information.
I am not really sure how the section you bolded contradicts anything I've said. All Jesus is asking is are you accusing me of blasphemy because I claimed to be the Son of God?
He admits to making that claim and all of this starts because they wanted to know if he was the Messiah. The son the was given who would be called the Everlasting Father and Mighty God. Jesus says to them I have told you that I am but you do not believe.
“How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I DID TELL YOU, but you do not believe.
You are ignoring a bunch of details of the text to fit your view.
No just saying I AM is not a declaration of being God, but in the presence of 1st century Jewish priest it is, because they are well aware of the name God gave to Moses. You broke the two parts I gave you up because it obviously shows he is claiming to be God. You ignore the setting because it does not fit your argument.
Are purposely misrepresenting Jesus? The Jesus of the Bible astounded people with his knowledge of Scripture and God. He also spoke of Moses as though the current Scriptures of the day were indeed divine...
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, to fulfill. Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled”
Jesus ask the Pharisees whose son is the Messiah, and to show them they were wrong, he brings up Psalms 110 in which David says The Lord said to My Lord Sit at my right hand. He was speaking about the Messiah and Jesus ask them if David called him lord how could he be David's son. Again this is a claim of a divine nature.
originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Akragon
Go read Isaiah 53. The Messiah comes in two forms. The suffering servant and the conquering king. Jesus came as the suffering servant and it is why most of the Jews missed him. They were looking for the conquering king.
Not to mention we also have Thomas calling him God and Jesus does not correct him instead he says you believed because you have seen blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.
27Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed?
If Jesus wasn't God but just a good servant he would have told Thomas no I am not God, but he didn't do that.
Im in no way trying to "rewrite history"... Im simply saying the people he was speaking to didn't understand what he was claiming to be... he was not claiming to be GOD... he said it straight to them, I claimed to be the son of God, which refutes the very notion of "claiming to be God"...
HE completely rejects the very idea that he claimed to be God in that verse... let alone the many obvious places where he was completely subordinate to HIM... NOT equal in any way shape or form... which is clear through out the gospels
What exactly did he admit to being... straight from the book? The SON of GOD... you can dance around it all you want, the fact remains that he did not once claim to be God... others did, HE did not... EVER
t I explained quite clearly... the question mark would have no place in that passage if he wasn't QUESTIONING them... I didn't ignore anything, but in fact you did... why would he question them if he actually claimed to be God?
He broke a few laws Moses gave, so it couldn't have been those...
how about "the royal law" which remains unbroken to this day?
I've never once denied the divinity of Jesus... sitting at the right hand of God is hardly sitting IN his seat
You Trinitarians have this three in one idea drilled into your heads, which screws all sorts of things up... including facing some parts of reality... Jesus did not believe in such a concept... neither did any of his followers
Yet you all seem to overlook that and concede to the doctrines of man... Pretty sure Jesus said something about that as well
've never once denied the divinity of Jesus... sitting at the right hand of God is hardly sitting IN his seat
Because I've never read Isaiah before right?
Again, just because its written in the book does not make it true, or accurate...
He wasn't king while on this earth... not king of anything... so said chapter was not correct...
Right... the absolute favorite passage Christians use to prove he was God...
Doubting Thomas suddenly claims him to be God, yet no one else did...
Probably never even happened, but even if it did, why is one man saying he was God... the doubter of the group, suddenly absolutely correct?
You don't find it strange that after he died, people started claiming he was God...
Dude, that is not the only title he gave to himself. Also I just gave you the strongs number for that word which will show you that figuratively that means anyone shaing the same nature as their Father. The difference here is the context does not back your interpretation up. The response of the Jews makes no sense from your perspective. You are trying to rewrite history.
Historically Jesus was crucified for claiming to be God. I didn't just give you one instance of Jesus claiming to be God. I gave you at least three and you have just ignored everything I've said and continued to just debate with nothing but your opinion and terrible reading comprehension.
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
Except Jesus wasn't called any of those titles... not until much later did people start calling him such things...
He was never called Immanuel
OR Father... he actually spoke out against calling people that...
Or Wonderful counselor
OR Mighty God...
Or any of those names Isaiah used... and he certainly did not bring peace
In fact there was nothing but war before and after his life
Except it makes complete sense in context of the conversation he was having with the Jews... They said "we are going to stone you for claiming to be God", Jesus said You're going to stone me because I claimed to be the SON of GOD?
what is there left to understand? They said you claimed to be God, HE said NO I claimed to be the SON of GOD... which is not the same as claiming to be GOD... to the Jews it was the same, but that wasn't his claim. Like I said before many times, in Judaism Anything that relates a person to God IS blasphemy... you can't even write the word without it being blasphemy... This whole concept was wrong from the beginning... The SON of GOD, is not the same as GOD
SO the options are, HE wasn't actually the messiah as he claimed to be
The bible was WRONG about who the messiah was
HE Prays to HIS FATHER...
HE says specifically...
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
And even after he returns to his followers... what is one of the last things he says in Mathew?
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
ALL power is GIVEN to me.... WHO gave him said POWER?
WHO can Give YOUR god "all the power" of heaven and earth?
WHO has that authority?
THE FATHER.... HIS GOD
but its also my opinion that what I've said above makes a lot more sense then the silly dancing and cherry picking for bits of info that Christians will do to prove something Jesus never said...
. In Luke, ADAM was refered to as "the son of God"... was ADAM actually Jesus... Im sure you believe he was, but again that just isn't reality... Only in the Christian world it is reality
HE never claimed to be God, YOU know this as well as I do... IF you choose to deny it, that is your issue...
I have never disputed that he claimed to be the Son of God. What I have disputed is your interpretation of that title.
originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
According to the bible, what are we created in? God's image. What is God according to the bible? Light. What do we see? An image of light. Let's put two and two together here. What we see is God's image, it is what we are created in. How are we created in it? Look in the mirror to find out.
YOU believe that GOD is three in one...
Where as I believe in ONE GOD
NOT three in one, or one equals three, or vice versa...
Yea thats about the only thing I left you to say so it make sense that is the only reply I got.
I believe in only one God I just believe his nature to be more complex than you do. Out of your two sentences, one would be a description of his nature the other would be a mathematical description of the number of entities involved. I can describe one entity, an egg, with three parts. What is different about doing that with God, but rather than parts you have three co-eternal minds?
No one has said one equals three you simply do not have the eyes to see or ears to hear.