Islam Call To Prayer In America

a reply to: sirlancelot

The vast majority of Americans are clueless and only really care about keeping their head above water. Only when it hits an American in the face will most even have a clue. Contrary to what Obama says about American and its foundation and Islam we are not a country built on Islam belief. Yes the constitution calls for separation of church and state but the foundation of this country was built around judeo-christian beliefs!

Please, just come out and admit that it isn't the noise that bothers you, but rather the fear of Islamicization in America. In simple terms, you think Islam is going to overrun America and before you know it, Americans will be subjected to Shariah law. If that isn't Islamophobia, I apparently do not understand the term.

There is nothing wrong with freedom of religion but when you project it out over and over again where non beleivers must hear it. THats when the line is crossed. Non beleivers that live with in ear shot of this mosque can walk away or leave the area it's there home. To those that say "well they can move" thats bs. Under that premise muslims could open mosque all over, blast their adhan, and force the un believers to relocate.

Non-believers should not be able to project their non-belief on the internet where believers may accidentally read it. Just kidding - that would be ridiculous. Who says move? What about just deal with it for 5 minutes and move on with your life? Here is why I think the noise isn't a problem for you- but that rather it is the fear of being under Muslim rule...

If you truly had a problem with annoying noise levels, would you kindly link me to your ATS threads concerning noise from concert venues that travel beyond the venue, noise from motorcycle gatherings, noise from airports, or any other source of noise/noise pollution in general.

I suspect the only noise you are complaining about is that coming from the adhan. That tells me your complaint is not about the noise, but about the source of the noise.

originally posted by: scorpio84
a reply to: sirlancelot

The vast majority of Americans are clueless and only really care about keeping their head above water. Only when it hits an American in the face will most even have a clue. Contrary to what Obama says about American and its foundation and Islam we are not a country built on Islam belief. Yes the constitution calls for separation of church and state but the foundation of this country was built around judeo-christian beliefs!

Please, just come out and admit that it isn't the noise that bothers you, but rather the fear of Islamicization in America. In simple terms, you think Islam is going to overrun America and before you know it, Americans will be subjected to Shariah law. If that isn't Islamophobia, I apparently do not understand the term.

There is nothing wrong with freedom of religion but when you project it out over and over again where non beleivers must hear it. THats when the line is crossed. Non beleivers that live with in ear shot of this mosque can walk away or leave the area it's there home. To those that say "well they can move" thats bs. Under that premise muslims could open mosque all over, blast their adhan, and force the un believers to relocate.

Non-believers should not be able to project their non-belief on the internet where believers may accidentally read it. Just kidding - that would be ridiculous. Who says move? What about just deal with it for 5 minutes and move on with your life? Here is why I think the noise isn't a problem for you- but that rather it is the fear of being under Muslim rule...

If you truly had a problem with annoying noise levels, would you kindly link me to your ATS threads concerning noise from concert venues that travel beyond the venue, noise from motorcycle gatherings, noise from airports, or any other source of noise/noise pollution in general.

I suspect the only noise you are complaining about is that coming from the adhan. That tells me your complaint is not about the noise, but about the source of the noise.

I have already stated very clearly that I'm not a fan of the muslim faith! I have already stated I don't like that Americans that are not muslim are having to deal with the adhan in their community! I don't have to live there to dis like it. Considering what happens and is happening in Muslim countries I guess you could say that I don;t want that here! Call it a phobia or whatever but those that follow islam to its truest form are not people I want to be around. You know the "sharieaLaw" kind of people!

I Learned long ago when I discovered "Islam-A-Bad"... that it is not for the Americas...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

All faiths are given the same options to call their faithful to their practice.

There's no more equitable way to solve the question.

Again, you are ignoring (deliberately?) the reality here. The message being broadcast isn't a simple summons; it's a declaration of the basic tenets of one particular faith. That isn't a "call to practice".

originally posted by: Gryphon66
You heard that someone said that there might have been talk that ... Please. The law is clear.

So are the laws against stoning people, but I have seen video with the police ignoring that. Your point?


This is the state allowing any faith to call their faithful ... I dnnt have to like any of it to accept that people have freedom of their faith. Neither my like or dislike nor yours has anything to do with it.

No, this is the state allowing one religion to proclaim that only theirs is the correct one, and forcing all within hearing to listen to this proclamation several times a day. Denying this repeatedly will never, ever, change that fact.

Your stated position doesn't match your actions in this thread.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

No, no one has been told they can't pray.

It doesn't matter what you think the Adhan is or isn't.

Of course it matters. If a Christian church was broadcasting short messages several times a day, stating that Jesus is God, and all who deny Him are lost, and claiming this was a simple "call to worship", you would not be here defending them. If you would, you'd have stated so already.

Why would I make any statement about what Christians can and can't say in their calls to their faithful?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
That's none of my business. The Christians can do the same thing in Hamtramck and Dearborn that the Muslims can do or the Wiccans or the Scientologists.

That's a cop out. No, they cannot, and we both know it. No Christian church would be allowed to broadcast a statement of faith several times a day. Christians in these places are actually physically attacked, and police stand by and watch. You can see this in video.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
If you have a problem with what the Christians in these places are doing or not doing, take it up with the Christians and leave the Muslims and everyone else alone.

It isn't about what the Christians there are, or are not, doing; it's about the government not providing equal treatment. The governments in such places are virtually sharia law. If you don't think that's a problem, just watch it spread, but don't complain when you aren't allowed to remain neutral, when it's your town affected.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Your personal take on religion is NOT the only acceptable one.

Neither is the Muslim one but all in those places are forced to hear it daily anyway.

At this point, I believe you are deliberately evading the actual issue. If you plan to continue to state the same thing, over and over, and refuse to address what is actually being discussed, don't bother. Only replies to the real issue will be addressed.

originally posted by: scorpio84
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Unless you state that you defend a church proclaiming several times a day that Jesus is God, and the only way to heaven, and calling that a "call to prayer", you cannot defend this. Are you willing to make that statement? You have avoided it thus far.

I'd defend it. Why? Simple - it's their right to state their beliefs and if their religion requires them to do so over loudspeaker, fine by me. The real question is - in your scenario - would you complain - or is it just a problem if Muslims do it?

Well, at least you will claim you'd defend both. That's more than some will do. In this case, then, the question is, does their faith actually require such a thing? Simple truth; it does not. Islam has been around for centuries, and they had no loudspeakers for most of that over which to publicly broadcast their faith statement. This is done for the sole purpose of forcing all to listen, and consider their message. It's state-condoned conditioning to a religion, which is against the Constitution. I don't believe a church should do what the Muslims are doing, either. Of course, none are, to my knowledge. The only places I would defend that on the part of a church are places that are allowing mosques to do the same, because otherwise, it's an unfair standard.

No religious group should be broadcasting daily faith statements into the public air via loudspeakers. Television shows, radio programs, pamphlets, etc., sure. Booths at a fair, sure. Of course, these places don't allow a Christian message at those, either. It's that one group is given preferential treatment here that is the issue. It's forcing citizens to hear a religious message that's the issue.

People have compared this to church bells, many times in this thread. These are not the same. Church bells do not proclaim any particular message. Spoken words do.

originally posted by: scorpio84
Well, there wouldn't be much of a point in a "call to prayer" if it were done inside the mosque, now would there? If you are saying the sky is a "public area" - okay. I remember when I was a kid being annoyed by the church bells that would always ring (no mosques - at least not then). I suppose, then, that we should outlaw church bells from ringing? If you'd support that, then at least you'd be consistent - otherwise you are just complaining about the call to prayer because you have a problem with Muslims, not with the actual noise. Religion is not being pushed on you or anyone else - unless you speak Arabic and actually understand what is being said? Otherwise, to you, it's just noise. Furthermore, if you want to talk about a problem with religion being pushed on someone, then discuss the Jehovah's Witnesses - not a tradition meant to remind people who already believe to come worship their deity.

If they want that, and just that, they can sound some tone, or bell, or something of that sort. Spoken words are not needed. Heck, some guy standing in the door, and announcing it there, would be alright, with no magnification of his voice. Blasting out a statement of faith isn't a call to prayer; it's forced listening to a "sermon" of sorts. Let these mosques come up with some non-verbal method, and have it no louder or more frequent than church bells and I won't have any problem with that.

As for Witnesses, they are indeed quite pushy at times, and don't understand what, "Go away; I'm not interested means." Well, some. Had a pair one place that would not stop coming, after being told, and would actually continue to knock even after I pointedly looked out the window at them, and then didn't answer the door. That was after they were told I wasn't interested, more the an once. Very pushy bunch. Had I been less pregnant at the time, they'd have likely had a hose turned on them.

originally posted by: scorpio84
Did it ever occur to you that if they were trying to "proselytize," the call to prayer would be in English (or perhaps Spanish)? I'm guessing you don't know what "proselytize" actually means.

Logically, that might be the case, but there is a bias involved there. Muslims believe, (and I have been told this BY Muslims) that the message is only supposed to be in Arabic. Many even claim that one cannot understand it in any translation. It's also known that the broadcast is intended to force all to listen, and consider. You can look this up. I know what it means. Remember, this is a group who has members willing to kill people that refuse to convert.

originally posted by: scorpio84

Nope, that's all yours. Churches don't get to proclaim over loudspeakers that their way is the only way, and yet mosques are allowed. That's a bigoted position, and you defend it.

Don't get to or just don't do it? The last I checked, churches use bells to call people to prayer. Perhaps they should only ring the bells inside the church and not allow the noise to escape into the public space which we call "air." Furthermore, you call it "public space" yet want to restrict its use. Hypocritical, don't you think?

Bells, once again, are not spoken words. Declaration of religious belief, broadcast via loudspeakers, several times a day, are not calls to prayer. Again, let them use some non-verbal method. Then things would be equal.

originally posted by: scorpio84

Calling someone to worship doesn't require proclaiming that only their deity is allowed. That's what they are actually doing. Pretending it's a call to prayer doesn't change the fact.

Ah, you do speak Arabic! Actually, you probably just googled what the adhan says. Clearly neither, considering the adhan is a proclamation of faith. It has nothing to do with saying other deities are not allowed. Furthermore, I'd think if you had studied Arabic, you'd have some sort of appreciation for the language - and unless you studied pre-Islamic Arabic, it's a bit difficult to separate language from Islam, which forms a huge part of the culture in the Arabic-speaking world. If you feel your own faith/opinions on God shaken by the adhan, it's a problem with you, not the adhan.

A least you admit it's spoken words, not a simple tone from a bell. Now, when you can get it clear that the intent is to make people consider their faith, you'll get the point. This isn't about what anyone else believes, or about someone's faith being threatened. Whether others agree with what I believe or not has no affect on my faith. I don't have a need to force mine. Sharing is one thing. Forcing others to comply is quite another. The problem is forced attention to Islam.

originally posted by: scorpio84
I have not insulted you once.

That claim is refuted on page 21.

originally posted by: scorpio84
Proselytizing is not being done here - if it were, it'd be in the vernacular understood by the majority of people. As for you being "forced" to hear it - as you said, "public space" and the last time I checked, America was a free country -the patriot act notwithstanding.

Yes it is and no, it wouldn't be. Already explained that. People are free to walk around the public square without a particular religious group broadcasting their faith statement multiple times a day.

originally posted by: sirlancelot

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: sirlancelot

So you have objection to people being called to pray to god?

I have an objection with the Muslim call to prayer in American Cities. Most cities and towns in America have sound ordinances yet in these towns they where changed to allow for the call to prayer.

As Choudary puts it ‘The main purpose behind the multiple loud pronouncements of Adhan in every mosque is to make available to everyone an easily intelligible summary of Islamic belief.
‘It is intended to bring to the mind of every believer and non-believer the substance of Islamic beliefs, or its spiritual ideology. In modern times, loudspeakers have been installed on minarets for this purpose.’

So therein lies my issue. I have no problems with Muslims practicing their faith, but I have a problem with them pushing their message over a loud speaker 5 times a day!

I can clearly see that your objections are rooted in cultural bias and nothing more, otherwise, you would also object to the ringing of the church bells in Boston and New York City and for the afternoon prayer mass and the various hourly holiday chimes. These public sounds relate to your conditioning of Christian values, and there's something about Islamic sounds that threaten your cultural identity. I would say that's a set of manifesting your feelings on a very personal level. But, when you project them socially this also feeds into the collective insecurities sometimes (and often literally) perceived as racist.

I'm not making any allusions to your motives, but it is obvious that your cultural instincts are at work here and that you are somehow unable or unwilling to step slightly outside of your comfort zone in order to see how the cultural assimilation of Muslims (and any number of ethnic groups) amounts to losing "their" identity in yet a strange land.

I can honestly say from my lengthy study of cultures and belief systems we all have much more in common than not. The issues come when we believe that we have more of the truth and reality than those in other parts of humanity. That's just part of our cultural conditioning, and there is nothing unique in any belief one system that cannot be compared to all of the others.

I would suggest that you put away your fears and pick up a copy of the Koran at the nearest Mosque. You'll see for yourself the very logic in it that you were taught to follow by your own parents.

The public Islamic sounds will become meaningful and somewhat reflective of the solitary meditations one enjoys while strolling past the church.