WAR: FBI Charges Laser Suspect Under Patriot Act: Despite Acknowledging Not A Terrorist Act

Fred... what would you call trying to bring down a jet? Terrorists as our government defines it means an Arab. If I am standing next to an Arab male and we are both pointing lasers at a jet only he will get charged with terrorism. The idea behind terrorism is to put fear into people. And going after air travel is the best way. What about the guys that blew up the federal building in OKC? Is that or is that not terrorism?

I think this dude is better filed under Dumbass than Terrorist; he tried to blame his own kid. He had no political agenda, no flaming connections to organizations, just an apparant streak of stupidity. If we allow the precedent of defining the action of mr. short-chromosome as terrorism, its only a matter of time before other lesser matters fall under the same definition.

Originally posted by Indy
Fred... what would you call trying to bring down a jet? Terrorists as our government defines it means an Arab.

I doubt highly that was his intent. When the little laser pointers went on sale at Costco a few years ago, we went nots with them. I doubt higly this idiot ment to bring down a plane. It was a Cesnna and a chopter BTW.

I doubt highly he intended to bring the planes down.

What do you think he meant to do. The Dumbass category probably is more appropriate for this oxygen thief.

What if this guy was just a regular joe who happened to be a bit stupid and pointed his laser at a jet and didn't realize maybe there was a deeper implication to it. Maybe the cia and fbi are actually investigating a case were terrorists plan to use laser guided missles to take down jets and this guy happened to do the wrong thing at the wrong time. By the time the patriot act was slapped down on him the fbi hadn't actually dug anything up on him but instead arrested him and then found out he was not in fact a real terrorist and realized they made a mistake and are now trying to figure out what to actually do about it.

Makes sense in a a realistic way to me if I do say so.

Oh where oh where have the civil liberties gone?
Oh where oh where could they be?

A few more zealots and bigots and lots of fun can be had!

And we (this fourum) thought it wasn't the worlds worst idea for our government to lie and cheat other nations...provided of course they could convince US with their lies that the other nations might be cheating us or holding back on security or trade issues.

Oh yeah they only have to lie to us if they get caught. And even better they have the power to simply change the rules as they see fit. This incident is an example of the whole problem.

They should have taken his pointer and tested if it was under about 8mW, over 10mW is where it becomes permanently blinding/impairing.

Just because our eyes see green better does not mean it goes further or is more blinding, your irisis may close faster and you may blink sooner if it looks brighter (saving your sight). The danger is IR beams that do not trigger you to look away or think its too bright, terrorists would use IR to blind if that was the intent.

A 5mW laser pointer of any colour can not be held in some ones eyes long enough to do any damage at that distance, they never said how long the beam was in the pilots eyes for. It could have been some twitchy flashes.

Also, the guy may have been seeing if he can aim like a sniper or he read "some where" that the beam wouldn't go that far and its not possible to aim it at something that far away.


Back many years ago, red 5mW laser pointers were $200 and now they are $5-10. green ones use alot more parts then the red ones but they are still going down in price. The danger of the green ones will pop up when people find out that they can chop out certain parts and use the higher power 50mW IR beam inside to burn stuff and blind others.

I wonder if the pilots were in a state of terror. Halloween is an act of terror to some people and I guess walking into the bank with a funny hat and shorts in cold temps could be considered terrorisim.

he should face terrorism charges plus an attempted murder charge for each person on that jet.

No. If there is probable cause to believe that he committed a crime he should be charged under the criminal statute that fits the conduct he is accused of having comitted, not a vague ill-defined catch-all category such as terrorism under the Patriot Act. I am beginning think of it as the "Traitor Act" because it has such dangerous potential to destroy the foundations of this country (the USA). Absolute power does what? It corrupts _________ ! What could be more absolute than the power to incarcerate someone for life with no due process, no process at all, except some some stupid bureaucrat's decision that this is how a particular individual should be treated where they even admit they could never prove any basis for that treatment at a hearing? I know, that's a different thread. But it fits in very nicely here.

The facts of this case, as reported, are that he discharged a laser beam toward one or more aircraft. In the state of Washington that would be a Class C felony, provided the other elements of crime are proven.

Maybe someone will check the New Jersey and Federal criminal statutes to see if there is a criminal statute that applies more directly here.

The guy commited a crime that could have had catastrophic results. He needs to be charged & be give at least a few years for his crime.

The problem I see here is the Anti-Patriot act is means that don't have to follow the constitution to go after this person. That's what it really boils down to - that which made our country great is being destroyed by those we put in charge.

Anyone who supports the Anti-Patriot act is an enemy of the people & should be tried for treason & hanged unless proven ignorant.

[edit on 4-1-2005 by outsider]

Originally posted by specialasianX
This is ridiculous... i hope Australia doesnt ever impose a stupid law like this.

Are you serious? As US-critical you are you should know about stuff like this:

www.greenleft.org.au...
Many fear that ASIO will use its new powers to attack vulnerable and marginalised sectors of society and political dissidents, just as the USAPATRIOT Act has been used by the FBI to conduct investigations unconnected with terrorism and Malaysia's Internal Security Act has been used to imprison hundreds of trade unionists, political activists and civil libertarians.

The right to remain silent and a person's right not be arrested without there being suspicion that they have committed a crime are two central tenets of the common law justice system. Both are violated by the new ASIO law, which implies you are guilty until proven innocent.

And this beautiful little nugget:

NSWCCL
�These new powers are absolutely the worst in Australia's history in terms of allowing the violation of people's basic rights and liberties .�

�Commonwealth legislators should hang their heads in shame for allowing ASIO the legal power to kidnap and interrogate ordinary innocent Australians.�

"ASIO will now be legally able to operate just like the KGB."

�The focus of these New ASIO powers will clearly be against innocent non-suspects such as journalists, religious figures, doctors, teachers or charity workers who, during their work, inadvertently come into contact with a person that ASIO wants to know about. They will be arrested and interrogated - forced to break their confidentiality or go to jail."

�ASIO will now be able to arrest innocent people, in the dead of night, and hold them for questioning indefinitely, without even their family knowing their whereabouts.�

�These powers go much further than anything either contemplated, or in place, in the United States or the United Kingdom."

"In the US and UK they have human right laws, or a bill of rights, to protect people against abuses of power such as these, unfortunately we do not, and therefore we have no real safeguards."

Again, like I posed this question to Canadians, why do people know only about the PATRIOT ACT and apparently ignore laws that actually affect them? It stupifies me.

On topic: This is ridiculous. With all the occurences of this happening recently across the nation why would this guy do it himself? Even if it were a Cessna, the article says it was a jet. I myself can't believe someone could shine a laser with any accuracy into the cockpit of a Citation:



A citation cockpit's windows aren't real big and sit pretty high. Something's funny about this.

This thread is your living proof that no matter how bad things get in this country and no matter what they do with your civil liberties, there will always be people cheering this government and backing up the stripping of your rights.

Not that I'd ever do this but do you want me to prove I can get a laser beam into a small jets window?

The article did not say how long the beam remained in the pilots eyes, laser beams spread out to a bigger diameter over a distance. It could have been 1-2feet across when it entered the window when its nose was pointing down

I personally feel that this act is more akin to criminal mischief than to terrorism, except that these incidents have been in the news for months and it is hardly a secret that the pilots of these planes were seriously concerned with their safety.

When I first moved here to New Mexico and was working in Child Protection someone directed a laser at me twice while I was unlocking my front door and once into my apartment. The first thought that came to my mind the first time it happened was a laser site, which got my blood to pumping.

The idea that it could have been a child with a pointer finally occurred to me and I figured that if anyone was trying to kill me they would have done it the first time.

So, in so far as we are engaged in a terrorst war and this moron was out there with a laser known to resemble military grade lasers, I think he deserves what he gets. I wouldn't be surprised if the cops a plea.

Originally posted by XL5
The article did not say how long the beam remained in the pilots eyes, laser beams spread out to a bigger diameter over a distance. It could have been 1-2feet across when it entered the window when its nose was pointing down

Yes, perhaps the plane was landing directly in front of him. And perhaps from well over half a mile he had the aim to put even a wide beam on the cockpit. I'm not saying he didn't do it, I'm just saying it wouldn't be easy.

Then, on Friday, a helicopter carrying Port Authority detectives was hit by a laser beam as its crew surveyed the area to try to pinpoint the origin of the original beam.

Whatever he did he shined the beam at a helicopter full of detectives. Coincedence or not this is a case of "America's dumbest criminals".

Ok all you big brother fearing paranoid types,

www.trentonian.com...

He was charged yesterday with interfering with the operator of a mass transportation vehicle and making false statements to the FBI. He faces up to 25 years in prison and fines of up to $500,000 if convicted.

As this was the FBI investigating this, it would thus be a federal charge against him.
Arresting authorities and procecutors OFTEN put the maximum charge down and then during the trial it gets whittled away at until the final charges are ironed out and the trial commences.
This is done mostly to try and get the maximum penalties to be able to be used if a conviction occurs.

Im pretty sure the charge of "interfering with the operator of a mass transportation vehicle" is now pretty clearly under the jurisdiction of the Patriot Act as accordint to Special Agent Joseph Billy,

Not only was the safety of the pilot and passengers placed in jeopardy by Banach�s actions; so were countless innocent civilians on the ground in this densely populated area.��

This could have caused whats knows as a "Mass Casualty Incident" which could have potentially affected hundreds or even more people...this would have put local and state first responders "on alert" as well as had area hospitals calling in staff and what not....this would have cost 10's of thousands of dollars just to mobilize and implement, even if the damage was limited....the activation of first responders alone would have been a huge deal.

Now for all of you people fearing he is "dissappeared" and denied his rights...the man has a lawyer and,

Banach made his initial appearance before a federal magistrate, who released him on $100,000 bail.

Looks alot like the avg wheels of justice turning here (tho seemingly heavy handed, when arent authorities/procecutors heavy?)
So in this case...the gloom and doom just doesnt seem to have panned out.

Caz,

Yeah, right..
They are just letting him go home until his accomodations are prepared at
Guantanamo Bay Hilton. .

My guess is he probably learned a thing or two already?
Like maybe READ the instructions...
This is not a toy, do not let CHILDREN play with laser.
Stuff like that.

spacedoubt casts doubt,

Yeah, right.. They are just letting him go home until his accomodations are prepared at
Guantanamo Bay Hilton.

So are you trying to imply that the patriot act is somehow responsible for your inferring that he will not get a trial by jury and continued due process under the law?
What if he's acquitted by the jury?
What if prosecutors botch the case (not likley but it has happened)
Im sure once he's convicted, there is a nice low security Federal Pen here in the states awaiting him..

Im also gonna bet he gets far less than the maximum sentance.

What makes you think that if he hasnt already been deprived of a lawyer and a hearing , that he wont get a fair trial?
Anything to spread liberal amounts of paranoia eh?

Or is that to read, spread amounts of liberal paranoia?



[edit on 5-1-2005 by CazMedia]

Caz,

That last post....It wasn't me..

My Daughter typed it... I swear!

Then as a patriot, im going to have to act,
you'll be charged with child endangerment for allowing her to point lasers at aircraft....potentially blinding herself in the process...
your daughter will be placed into child protective services, where no doubt we will lose track of her and she will be abused,
and you will be put to death for your crimes against humanity.
trial over, please step into the disintigration booth now.

See im good at this conspiracy stuff too...

Darn Patriot Act,

Foiled again.
Next time I'll use an infrared laser, and night vision goggles.
Then, ONLY I will know how much fun I am having!

Later, Dictator!