There we have it. The first use of the Patriot Act on an admittedly non-terrorist act. Just give the Patriot Act a few more years to evolve and it should be interesting to see what it has become.

Maybe he'll be guest numero uno at one of the Bush camps.

Basically, he's screwed.

Originally posted by Simulacra
There we have it. The first use of the Patriot Act on an admittedly non-terrorist act. Just give the Patriot Act a few more years to evolve and it should be interesting to see what it has become.

This is my concern. This is not a trivial event. I searched and tried to find any literature that showed non terrorist applications of the law and I think it may be the first. We NEED to keep a closer eye on it.

This is an important turning point...

If people hear about this having nothing to do with terrorism, yet being charged under the patriot act, and do nothing, don't care or whatever... it's going to build to be something more. People need to pay attention to this, otherwise they may be the next to get screwed.

We reap what we sow; we sat back and allowed the bill to not sunset, didnt care when it was passed without much attention. The real reason he was charged under the Patriot Act...power, the power to hold him for as long as they want, treat him in almost any manner, and exercise powers far beyond what the federal goverment should weild against the citizenry.

I hate to think of how they will be using this law down the road. Whats sad is all those that said"its OK its the Republicans, they love freedom" without even stopping to think that even if ALL republicans were PERFECT sooner or later the Democrats would be in charge. This is quickly turning into a Freedom thing not a Party thing. All yall can toe the party line and say its for our own good, some will NEVER see it and some wont see it till its too late.

I truly fear for the country I love and have fought for.

I would not trust MYSELF with that much power.

This could be the turning point that alot of people have been prediciting. I mean if they can start applying the act to whatever, a suspect could be speeding and charged under the act and serve real time. The application of this law to not terrorist incident can and will be abused IMHO as you put it Amuk, I would not want that level of power.

a serious concern for anyone living in america, or visiting or living next door. the precedent is in motion, lets hope that this citizen is given his full constituional rights. if not we should all be concerned for "freedoms of speech" or expression, or laser pointing or whatever.

It was just a matter of time before the Patriot Act was applied to U.S. citizens not associated with terrorists. Now it begins. The slippery slope is a very dangerous one for what this country used to and still does, to some degree, stand for.

Why charge this person, who apparently committed an extremely dangerous and despicable act, under the Patriot Act? The US gov't does not do this without very careful planning. There is an agenda behind this charging decision. What it is will hopefully be revealed through the criminal process in his case.

The state of Washington has statutes which specifically criminalize this type of conduct. I would be very surprised if the state of New Jersey does not have similar criminal statutes. I haven't searched, but I think there is likely already a federal statute that specifically criminalizes this kind of conduct.

So, the question is: Why is the Patriot Act being used to charge this person? You are witnessing a direct frontal assault on civil liberties. Using this suspect who everybody will agree should be punished commensurate with the risk of harm his conduct created, is just the opening salvo. The average citizen will support this governmental decision. Why, because he committed a very bad act. Maybe they have one of those lifetime beds reserved for him at Gitmo. After all, he's the first test case bad guy. That's always where the assault begins, against someone or some group who nobody thinks is worthy of sympathy.

Keep your eyes open and your ears peeled, folks. They're coming for you next if you so much as think a negative thought about the powers that be. Maybe not today. But tomorrow is within sight if this is not brought to an immediate and abrupt halt.

[edit on 4-1-2005 by dubiousone]

There is an agenda behind this charging decision. What it is will hopefully be revealed through the criminal process in this case.

I think the reason is this: you dont just leave rolled up newspaper sitting on the kitchen table to scare your dog into behaving, you occasionally have to use it. This is one of those times I think, to prove that the goverment can and is willing to use the bill they were so adamant in passing. Of course by utilizing the Patriot Act we arent privy to details of the court case, since it can all be held behind closed doors and later protected by national security bs. Most likely I think this story will be quietly swept under that big black rug.

While I do believe the government often abuses the patriot act I do believe what this guy was doing is an act of terrorism and I do fault the government for not calling it as such. What else do you call trying to take down an aircraft? If I plant a bomb on a jet and take it down it is an act of terrorism. If I take over a cockpit and take a jet down it is terrorism. If I shine a laser into a cockpit to try and take it down it is an act of terrorism. Just because I am a white American male instead of an olive colored middle-eatern male doesn't change the act.

Last i heard, wasnt this a toy?????

Most likely I think this story will be quietly swept under that big black rug.

I don't think so. There are too many people still around who are aware of and care for what the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution say in very clear terms, i.e. the gov't is subservient to the citizens, not the other way around. The gov't represents US. We are not its servants.

I'm keeping my antenna up for the first non-violent protestor test case in which some short sighted federal prosecutor or agency, at the direction of some unnamed superior, tries to apply the Patriot Act. It will happen. Pray to God that you aren't the test case. And when it does happen, don't stand there watching silently. Raise your voice in protest because if you don't it will happen to you or someone you know next, unless you don't know anyone with a spine.

Our first camp "victim" gets shipped off because of toy lazer.
Whats next.

Why not fully investigate the creep, find out who he "really" is then slap him with a fine or 1 year in regular jail?

Instead they throw the Patriot Act book at him. He'll rot at camp

But whether someone uses a shoulder launched rocket or a laser designed to blind pilots they are both done to bring down a jet. Thats an act of terrorism. Now that doesn't mean that he should lose his rights guaranteed to him by the constitution but he should face terrorism charges plus an attempted murder charge for each person on that jet.

Originally posted by Indy
But whether someone uses a shoulder launched rocket or a laser designed to blind pilots they are both done to bring down a jet. Thats an act of terrorism.

But Indy, even the FBI has said it NOT terrorism as we define it.

Im not saying this ass should be locked up, but if we start sticking the "terrorism" lable on everything, then we are in big big BIG trouble

So being in a gang is terrorism and now pointing lasers at people is terrorism... all i can say is watch out american pretty soon anything you do will be dubbed terrorism...

This is ridiculous... i hope Australia doesnt ever impose a stupid law like this.

Indy i think thats a huge charge without first trying to figure out what really happened, is he nuts, was he just fooling around, what were his "real " intentions, etc.

He might be just a dufus and not a terrorist.