ISIS defector explains a key reason why people continue to join the group

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: alienjuggalo

I don't condone it. I think they are wrong. The "right ones" are fleeing to avoid having to join up. We call them refugees. So many want to punish these refugees by denying them sanctuary. That's wrong too.

Yea, that's a good point actually. I'm sure the west's sour opinion of the refugees isn't exactly inspiring a lot of confidence to flee and be a refugee in lieu of being conscripted into ISIS.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: alienjuggalo

I don't condone it. I think they are wrong. The "right ones" are fleeing to avoid having to join up. We call them refugees. So many want to punish these refugees by denying them sanctuary. That's wrong too.

Yea, that's a good point actually. I'm sure the west's sour opinion of the refugees isn't exactly inspiring a lot of confidence to flee and be a refugee in lieu of being conscripted into ISIS.

Maybe, but I would think that the "right" ones would care about their families enough to bring them too. Historically, this is not how a refugee population fleeing from war looks. They pull up, root and branch, the whole family as much as they can. What we are seeing is weird. I am skeptical.

Having said that, if economic and physical security are being used as leverage to such competent effect by ISIS then offering these refugees a chance to achieve that somewhere else could entice more people away from the group. If they feel that they have an option besides ISIS it could destroy the groups leverage of desperation.

originally posted by: redhorse

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: alienjuggalo

I don't condone it. I think they are wrong. The "right ones" are fleeing to avoid having to join up. We call them refugees. So many want to punish these refugees by denying them sanctuary. That's wrong too.

Yea, that's a good point actually. I'm sure the west's sour opinion of the refugees isn't exactly inspiring a lot of confidence to flee and be a refugee in lieu of being conscripted into ISIS.

Maybe, but I would think that the "right" ones would care about their families enough to bring them too. Historically, this is not how a refugee population fleeing from war looks. They pull up, root and branch, the whole family as much as they can. What we are seeing is weird. I am skeptical.

What are we "seeing" exactly? And what are you implying?

Having said that, if economic and physical security are being used as leverage to such competent effect by ISIS then offering these refugees a chance to achieve that somewhere else could entice more people away from the group. If they feel that they have an option besides ISIS it could destroy the groups leverage of desperation.

I agree, yet many in the west want to label all the refugees as terrorists and not accept any of them into the country.

I do not think most wars have anything to do with religion other than just using it as one of many tools to motivate. I really saw them with a thought that they can invade Iraq kill all the men and most children and just take the land, house, goats and wives (many) of those they killed and start their new life.

2 posts

a reply to: eisegesis

This is not new information although the date of the article might suggest that.
There has been a german investigation into who is buying the oil from IS.
At first it was my assumption that the oil would be transported to Saudi Arabia, but that is not the case.
The oil goes to Turkey and Iran, kurdish fighters are ordered to let the oil trucks pass from IS territory in to Turkey.

With a daily production of 80.000 barrels of oil the earnings are estimated to be around 3 million dollar per day which among others is used to pay the salary of the fighters.

Here is a dutch article on it that dates from Januari 10 2015.

US airstrikes destroy more than 100 ISIS oil trucks in Syria

The United States had previously refrained from striking the fleet of trucks, believed to number over 1,000, out of concern over civilian casualties, according to the New York Times. This meant that, up until Monday, the IS oil logistics system remained largely intact, but reconnaissance drones had been surveying the area where the trucks assemble for some time.

It really makes one think, the american stance, was that really due to concerns for civilian casualties?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

What I'm implying is that we do not see that many women, children and elderly among the refugee population. I understand that what we see and are being told may be propagandized but it seems strange that the media is pushing an agenda to sympathize with and accept the refugees and simultaneously showing us footage of row upon row of fighting fit young men instead of more sympathetic women and children. I think accepting the possibility that the footage shown is reflecting the reality of the majority demographic in this refugee population is warranted, and if so, that is a threat. Also, even if most of them are genuine in their desire to flee (which I think is probably true), I will make a personal judgment against their character for not bringing their families. I still sympathize with them, but I don't know if these are quite the caliber of people you might be thinking. If it is what is being shown is truth, don't let them in. When they start bringing their families then fine.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Stop making excuses for ISIL.

To defeat an enemy doesn't one need to understand their motivations, incentives, tools, reasons?

If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” ― Sun Tzu

And no...it's not as simple as saying, "Their religion tells them to kill, so hate the religion." That's the lazy person's way out.

I can sum up this whole article and this guys story in one word "Propaganda" .
If you read about Daesh recruitment techniques then what this guy is describing is exactly what foreign defectors TO Daesh are promised. I have also seen stories of people trying to get back home and reporting through social media that the promises are not delivered. This whole story id Daesh propaganda, "Look what you get if you come and join us!"

And for those deriding Socialism, ask yourself why you are so scared of it ??? is it because Ma and Pa told you that it was bad ??? open your eyes democratic socialist systems can and do work. I'm getting a major operation on socialist health care, in the USA I would be looking at an estimated expiry date on my life.

a reply to: redhorse

Yea that's all propaganda. Here's the UN's official numbers:

Facts and Figures about Refugees

Last year, 51% of refugees were under 18 years old. This is the highest figure for child refugees in more than a decade.

Syria Regional Refugee Response

Male (49.7%)
0 - 4 8.9%
5 - 11 10.8%
12 - 17 6.6%
18 - 59 22.1%
60 + 1.3%

Age (50.3%) Female
0 - 4 8.4%
5 - 11 10.3%
12 - 17 6.2%
18 - 59 23.7%
60 + 1.7%

Looks like you don't have much to worry about after all with men leaving their families behind.

a reply to: redhorse

What I'm implying is that we do not see that many women, children and elderly among the refugee population.

I don't know what media you are referring to. On the TV networks I watch, mostly what is shown are women and children. The elderly don't travel well, so it is not surprising they are under-represented.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Seems like no matter how many times the real numbers get thrown out there, people keep spewing out those dumb lies from Fox, Breitbart, Trump, etc. If I see one more facebook post on "why are the refugees nothing but big scary-looking men", I'm gonna scream!

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
What are we "seeing" exactly? And what are you implying?

We are seeing economic migration rather than refugees fleeing from war....
We are seeing many young males from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, rather than Syrian families, women and children.
We see them choosing their destinations according to the economic status of the country they are interested in, crossing borders and borders...

That's not how refugees fleeing from war look like....

I am all for helping those running away from Isis, but that isn't exactly what is happening right now....
We must embrace reality and stop kidding ourselves.

We are talking about strict control of the borders and those entering Eu.
Right now all kinds of people are arriving by the thousands with boats in Greece and Italy and no matter where they come from, or what papers or fake ids they have, Europe has to save them, give care, shelter and take care of all of them otherwise they will drown in the sea.

Refugees are supposed to return back to their own country after the crisis had ended do you really think that will be the case?

None ever asked if the Eu countries in economic crisis can support anymore....
Yet they keep arriving by the thousands, Syrians or not....
Let's be honest here, don't tell me you can't see the problem....

originally posted by: avriel
I'm getting a major operation on socialist health care, in the USA I would be looking at an estimated expiry date on my life.

Glad to hear... I had an operation, it cost me 30 bucks and on Tuesday the doctor said how about Thursday, so ya our health care sucks unlike yours...hehe.

One thing I have notated is Socialism seems to do find with smaller populated countries that can keep a good amount of the population in the workforce. As countries get larger things chance as to the over all affordability, and as countries of any size sees a reduction in the working population the system breaks down, and there are a good number EU counties feeling this issue. It is a pretty common fact that many Canadians come to America for their healthcare due to the wait time there.

a reply to: DJW001

Sad story that.

The elderly often get left behind. They try to leave, but fall further and further behind, and those leaving look back sadly over their shoulders and cry for them but have to say a silent goodbye.

a reply to: Dr1Akula
"We" are "seeing" this? Or rather you just typed this up on the spot with no supporting evidence whatsoever? Counter the statistics I posted here before you continue talking.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: eisegesis

In the words of Trump:



.

I am sure his goal is to stop this one avenue of wealth flowing into the hands of ISIS...but there is still one problem Trump tweeted a while back.....

.
.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

WRONG don't spread the propaganda you read, where did they got the numbers they are showing?
From refugee people fleeing Syria? that's no relevant ...
The people arriving in Eu is relevant

Here is the UN refugee agency numbers of those arriving by boats in Europe...

846.119 arrivals by the sea in 2015

ONLY 52% are Syrians
62% men
16% women
22% children

data.unhcr.org...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Alright then guys. I'll take that at face value for now and I stand corrected.