Dutch Parliament Member: We Must Close All Mosques & Ban Islam

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Logarock

Exactly how many countries have been fundamentally changed by a minority population of Muslims entering into it?

Probably not many...yet. Did you listen to the entire monologue of Michiel de Graaf? The figures tell that if this trent of births in the dutch muslim households continue the way they are it will be a matter of time before there will be a muslim majority in The Netherlands. It will be naive to assume this will have no consequences for how the country will be run.

This will also happen with several other european countries.

a reply to: Foderalover

If you want religious freedom for yourself, you have to allow it for others.

Christianity could be radicalized and twisted to become just as violent as Islam. In countries like Somalia that don't have much of a government to speak of, or threat of punishment for murder -- radical Christianity could flourish.

We have laws and social order in America, and because people fear the consequences of their hate, we don't see radical Christianity in the same way as we do radical Islam. Radical Islam only seems to begin and take root in countries where there is chaos and little social order.

a reply to: zatara

Muslims make up 6% of the population in Holland. They are going to have to do QUITE a bit of breeding to overtake the birthrate of the rest of the population AND rise to have a prominent political presence. And this with them being unchanged by western influences themselves.

Sorry buddy, I don't listen to some politician talk about things. I go check the data to see if it is true or not. Tell me again why this politician is trustworthy.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: zatara

Muslims make up 6% of the population in Holland.

And cause about 90% of the aggro.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Did you just make that up on the spot?

a reply to: SprocketUK

Got any sources to back that statistic up or (as I assume) you just made it up on the spot?

a reply to: mamabeth

I am just asking you to back that up, not just repeat the same stuff over and over again.

People coming over our border from the south is nothing new, been happening for decades, it is just a political hot button that comes up during elections.

When was it not wide open? Can you at least tell me that?

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Categorically false.

Nope.
www.evilbible.com...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Muslims make up 6% of the population in Holland.

Yes, overall. The countryside has less muslims. In the major cities they are taking over.

They are going to have to do QUITE a bit of breeding to overtake the birthrate

They have already overtaken the birthrate, by a large factor. I don't see how anyone can deny these simple facts. They get at least 3 times as much children. You do the math.

And this with them being unchanged by western influences themselves.

Most seem to want us to adapt to them.

Sorry buddy, I don't listen to some politician talk about things. I go check the data to see if it is true or not. Tell me again why this politician is trustworthy.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You are an American in America if I'm correct. Why should I consider you trustworthy when I live here and see things happening with my own eyes.

originally posted by: DaExpletive
Yes, overall. The countryside has less muslims. In the major cities they are taking over.

Not really. The major cities are still primarily non-Muslim. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the percentage "6%"? It means that out of any random group of 100 people ACROSS the country, only 6 people would be Muslim.

They have already overtaken the birthrate, by a large factor. I don't see how anyone can deny these simple facts. They get at least 3 times as much children. You do the math.

How about posting a source for this claim before I do anything?

Most seem to want us to adapt to them.

Immigrants adopting to local customs is something that takes a few generations. America knows all about such things.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You are an American in America if I'm correct. Why should I consider you trustworthy when I live here and see things happening with my own eyes.

Because I have statistics and you have anecdotes. Statistics > anecdotes as far as quality of evidence goes. Come back with some objective evidence. I don't care about what you "see" while living there. Give me actual data. You want me to do the math. Present the numbers for me to calculate. You can "feel" how things are all day, but that # doesn't flush with me.

Japan doesn't ban Islam. Stop believing everything you read on the net. Deny ignorance.

Kra, Sem, absolutely nothing at all that will shake you out of your comas.

You've made up your minds that all muslims are lovely, peacable people who only enhance the societies they move to. Whatever statistic I posted would be dismissed as
A, coming from a non left wing newspaper and thus not valid as far as you are concerned.
B, Coming from other unreliable sources such as people who live there.
C, Generally not agreeing with your pre formed opinion.

Do you really think that a large proportion of Dutch people just woke up one morning and decided to support right wing, anti muslim parties because their coffee shop high wore off? Or do you suppose they are getting sick of the ghettoisation of their cities and the constant rubbish that follows the growth of that part of the islamic culture that demands prominence over all others?

Wait, I know the answer. Haha.
They could set off a nuke in an orphanage and you'd still somehow pretend they weren't to blame.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Kra, Sem, absolutely nothing at all that will shake you out of your comas.

You've made up your minds that all muslims are lovely, peacable people who only enhance the societies they move to. Whatever statistic I posted would be dismissed as

Actually you just made up my mind for me since I have never ONCE said that all muslims are lovely, peaceful people.

A, coming from a non left wing newspaper and thus not valid as far as you are concerned.
B, Coming from other unreliable sources such as people who live there.
C, Generally not agreeing with your pre formed opinion.

A. If it is reliable information, I don't care where it comes from. Though if it is from a blog I'm not going to concern myself with it.
B. Anecdotes are a logical fallacy.
C. This is a lie. I've changed my opinion more times than I can count on ATS when I've been shown the error of my thinking.

Do you really think that a large proportion of Dutch people just woke up one morning and decided to support right wing, anti muslim parties because their coffee shop high wore off? Or do you suppose they are getting sick of the ghettoisation of their cities and the constant rubbish that follows the growth of that part of the islamic culture that demands prominence over all others?

I think that JUST like America, the Dutch populace can be susceptible to fear propaganda and rhetoric being spewed by people spinning the truth. Do you deny that the Dutch can have paranoia attacks?

Wait, I know the answer. Haha.
They could set off a nuke in an orphanage and you'd still somehow pretend they weren't to blame.

The only people to blame for such an atrocity are the people responsible for it. Muslims as a whole being blamed for ISIS nuking an orphanage would be incredibly racist and shortsighted. Not to mention, since the scale of the atrocity would be so terrible, the xenophobic reaction to such an event would likely turn the conservative west into Nazis who want to ship Muslims off to camps.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not really. The major cities are still primarily non-Muslim. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the percentage "6%"? It means that out of any random group of 100 people ACROSS the country, only 6 people would be Muslim.

Just goes to show you have no clue about the simplest of concepts. No it does not mean that in any random group, 6 out of 100 is muslim. I just explained it to you. If you take 100 people from the countryside, much less than 6 of them are muslim. If you take 100 people from a major city, the percentage is much, much higher. And this is where the problems are.

Stop pretending like you know anything when I am talking about the future of my country.

Here, maybe a visual aid will help you understand the concept.

Immigrants adopting to local customs is something that takes a few generations. America knows all about such things.

You are not even tring to get it, are you. In a few generations there is a majority of muslims in Holland and we are the ones adapting.

Stop comparing to America. It is a completely different situation.

Because I have statistics

BS. You picked one skewed statistic, and totally ignore any other info that is presented to you.

Show me the statistic you have about muslim birthrate that disproves the claim being made by the Dutch parliament member.

originally posted by: DaExpletive
Stop pretending like you know anything when I am talking about the future of my country.

Here, maybe a visual aid will help you understand the concept.

What's the source for that picture?

You are not even tring to get it, are you. In a few generations there is a majority of muslims in Holland and we are the ones adapting.

No. That isn't even close to true. They've been saying similar lies here in the States and it has never turned out to be true.

Stop comparing to America. It is a completely different situation.

No it isn't. Immigration is immigration. It's funny that you think a country that has hundreds of years of history dealing with immigration isn't relateable to your situation. That's VERY funny to me.

Just fyi, I've been battling Americans in immigration debates just like this one using the EXACT same rhetoric you are using here for quite some time. Like I've heard all this crap before. Your attempts to distance yourself from the American immigration debates reeks of desperation that you realize your rhetoric isn't going to work on me.

BS. You picked one skewed statistic, and totally ignore anyhing other info that is presented to you.

Ignore? You didn't post any counter statistics for me to ignore. You posted a cool picture, but there is no source for it.

Show me the statistic you have about muslim birthrate that disproves the claim being made by the Dutch parliament member.

Here you go:
Pew: Fertility Rate for Muslims vs. Non-Muslims in Europe

At a birth rate of 2.7%, it's going to take QUITE a few generations for Muslims to become a majority population in your country. Here's a second source that agrees with me:
Will Pew Muslim birth rate study finally silence the “Eurabia” claim?

originally posted by: Justoneman

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Justoneman

So your evidence against them goes as follows, "Muslims can be xenophobic too, therefore we shouldn't let them into our country." They still have to obey our laws you know? It's not like their beliefs and actions are going to magically trump our laws. They can TRY to rape women or beat their wives, but they'll go to jail for it just like a non-Muslims will.

So am I to assume from this comment you are ok with what has transpired with the sharia law zones in the Western Society?
Not every location can you say there are no go zones but there are some and here i give examples.

www.nytimes.com...

Here this report is of how American Christians got stoned in a no go zone where your death may happen before they do something about it.

www.clarionproject.org...

This was already discussed here on ATS, iirc it was group with pig head and erupted with some kids trowing stones at protester.

Check here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

It started with 'Muslim stone Christian' to later turn out that those got there with bad intention and did not want to be escorted away by police.

a reply to: Klassified

In this particular case, the Dutch government brought in those refugees/immigrants, knowing the cost to their own country. If they can't "afford" any more, then stop bringing them in, but deporting them without good cause is wrong. He gives no valid reason other than their differences.

The Netherlands have a HUGE problem with Punk Arab gangs and others who think they should never have to follow the local laws.. The Dutch people are afraid to walk the streets at night do to many beatings and murders from Arab gangs. They agreed to assimilate to the nations they entered, we all know how they act so that is why they need to be sent back to the place they came from.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: Klassified

In this particular case, the Dutch government brought in those refugees/immigrants, knowing the cost to their own country. If they can't "afford" any more, then stop bringing them in, but deporting them without good cause is wrong. He gives no valid reason other than their differences.

The Netherlands have a HUGE problem with Punk Arab gangs and others who think they should never have to follow the local laws.. The Dutch people are afraid to walk the streets at night do to many beatings and murders from Arab gangs. They agreed to assimilate to the nations they entered, we all know how they act so that is why they need to be sent back to the place they came from.

Maybe the dutch need to bring in some Martial Arts experts and have some Self-Defense classes so they aren't afraid to walk the streets?

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: Klassified

In this particular case, the Dutch government brought in those refugees/immigrants, knowing the cost to their own country. If they can't "afford" any more, then stop bringing them in, but deporting them without good cause is wrong. He gives no valid reason other than their differences.

The Netherlands have a HUGE problem with Punk Arab gangs and others who think they should never have to follow the local laws.. The Dutch people are afraid to walk the streets at night do to many beatings and murders from Arab gangs. They agreed to assimilate to the nations they entered, we all know how they act so that is why they need to be sent back to the place they came from.

In that case, deport or imprison the ones causing the problems. Anyone who is a known gang member should be arrested on sight. The same way it should every where, but unfortunately, our own authorities aren't any better. We have plenty of gangs in the U.S., and little gets done about it. So I can understand how the average citizen might feel in Europe, but deportation of all Muslims(or any other religion), isn't the way to deal with the issue. imo.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Here you go: Pew: Fertility Rate for Muslims vs. Non-Muslims in Europe At a birth rate of 2.7%, it's going to take QUITE a few generations for Muslims to become a majority population in your country.

Again you are unable to make a correct interpretation of the statistics you use.......

Not 2.7%, but a birthrate of 2.7 children.


Your own source even says this,

Muslims have an average 3 children per family (or woman? The data does not clarify this). Not hard to calculate how large the population will explode into within the next three decades.

What's the source for that picture?

Does something in that pic seem impossible to you or something?

Like most non-Western immigrants, most Muslims live in the four major cities of the country, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht. An estimated 140,000 Muslims reside in the capital where they form around 17 per cent of the population.

en.wikipedia.org...