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Time to change the way we deal with Muslim extremists

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posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 03:19 AM
This is such a complex issue, because you're not fighting a country, you're fighting an ideology born of the second largest world religion followed by somewhere between 1 and 2 billion people. Physical war and conflict can only go so far, and will mostly be temporary; it needs to be combined with a psychological war, one which is permanent. On the physical end, we only exasperate the situation by hit-and-run attacks; drop a few bombs here, send a few soldiers there... What we need to do is slam them, and HARD, and then follow up with boots-on-the-ground control while we work on dealing with the reasons for people becoming allied with ISIS and other such groups. There's no place for mercy when dealing with terrorist groups that have none. Let's quit poking the beehive and just burn the whole thing and get it over with. Sure, civilians might hate us at first, but if we engage in actual proper nation-building, help set up infrastructure and food and medical care, they'll be grateful to have traded terrorism for progress.

posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 03:26 AM
Maybe instead of bomb dogs everyone starts using bomb pigs.

Maybe the west should start using pigs in other ways too.

Pretty soon these will be the only things we haven't tried, then what?

posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 03:53 AM
a reply to: Rosinitiate

I disagree and you know that, and the reason why is I refuse to believe there is an all encompassing evil inherent in our government hell bent on taking over the world, it's not realistic these people are people just like you and I the only difference they have more perspective and more responsibility which certainly weighs on choice making.

They are always wrong and always confronted with moral quagmires,( there is a train on the track and at a junction if you pull the lever one person trapped will die on the left track, if you do not pull the lever five people will die trapped on the right track, what do you do?)

these choices never have a good moral standing, and it can be justified in many different ways and with many different ideologies, I say all that to say this I believe they, Are generally good people looking out for the interests of the west and even the world, but they are human and make mistakes as do we, they can never be right! With that said, everything in this world is not a conspiracy and sometimes the world is as stupid as it seems.

posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 04:00 AM
a reply to: muse7

2 years ago yeah.

But now ISIS is here that horse has bolted.

Removing ourselfs from the ME wont make them happy or make them leave us alone like some of the other past groups.

Fact is like it or not we are now at war. ISIS make that decsion for us.
They wont just go away now because we ignore them.

Our actions have led to there creation but they are here now.

Exterminate them frirst then withdraw from the area.

posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 04:17 AM
a reply to: TechniXcality

I genuinely imagined your scenario, only I raised the stakes to better confront myself with the analogy. One the one track is my 7 yr old, on the other my 7 mo. And I came up with no answer, just that I'd wish I could sacrafice myself to save them and the thought experiment ended with a tear.

After composing myself, I am left with this. 1st is my government or the officials comprised of it have no intentions of throwing themselves on a grenade for me anytime soon. They would however perhaps do that for their children. There are good people trying to do good things within government, but the system is so corrupted its neutered. Further, I'd also say that given our current scenario and how it relates to saving people on one track or another, I think there are more options than hitting the switch.

It's not like we either use a hammer or we don't, the world's problems isn't that there's too many nails, it's that we are mistaking screws for nails. Diplomacy can only take you so far I agree, however, diplomacy would be a lot more effective if we didn't say on thing out of one side of our mouth while doing something completely different on the ground.

But here's the rub. Is it to late to make amends? Are people capable of forgiving the atrocities committed in the name of nation building? Not even the wars of today but those of yesterday. Perhaps, I don't see the enemies of old Vietnam, Cuba or whomever blowing themselves up in America. We have leveled how many Arab nations in the past decade? Where are the Libyan suicide bombers? We destroyed a country that when compared to their neighbors of a bastion of economic wealth, now look at it. Where is there anger? Why are they not here? Why the Syrians?

posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 04:32 AM
Maybe a good start would be to stop having one set of rules for some and another set of rules for others.

One example: Why is the side you happen to be on the just warriors and the side the other happens to be on the unjust terrorists?

Another good start would be to admit that you can't fix this with bombs and bullets and stop trying to.

But of course, we know that the machines that are in place, both the war machine and the media machine, are not going to let that happen. The only way it will happen is if we take the power back, but the damage may be too deep and have gone to far for this to even be possible.

Finally, whatever we do is not going to be a quick fix (although the start of it can be). It'll take generations to heal this mess.

posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 04:51 AM
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Lucidity, it's good to see you, but I will answer and respectfully disagree, the side we are on has value because we often times have to defend this side, from internal threats (fascism, even communism and extreme ideologies) and external threats (" ") it is real, and that is why we must take sides.

Would it be better if we could take humanities side? Yes it would, that however is completely idealogical and not practical, dominos are falling all around and leaving us in ethical quagmires, I have an experience of mine in a fascist type behavior program, I took a side and that side saved my life, and it was not a happy or joyful side I paid dearly for it; laying down would have resulted in more torment for me and the others around me.

we have to bring these things home and put them in perspective, yes I want a peaceful world, now let's figure out how to practically implement that, and giving up sovereignty or laying down and having open arms to everyone everywhere will not solve our problem it will dissolve our people our freedoms and the opinions you have and hold dear and rightfully should. Anyway, I hope you are well

posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 04:55 AM
a reply to: TechniXcality

Good to see and (not really totally) disagree with you too

All I'm saying is agreeing with the general construct/concept that what we are doing is clearly not working and never will.

The ME needs to work this out with their 2.5+million troops or whatever the number is they have in their collective countries. Figure it out and fight it out amongst themselves...all their political and religious and other crap issues. The Enemy of Our Enemy

We do not need to be there to mediate, to protect, to change, to kill.

If we let the above happen, or even force it to by leaving, the rest of us can all just focus out efforts and energies on keeping the war out of our countries.

Because, you know, it's such a freaking SHOCK to people when they bring the war to us, to our countries So shocking that to reconcile it in their own minds they have to call it terrorism and not what it is...war. Well, that, and because the puppetmasters tell them to.

posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 05:19 AM
Watch what the Russians do with ISIS

The situation is far beyond calling a truce or a ceasefire, radical Jihad/Militarized Islam is not just a political position...It is an existential issue where up to 10% of the Muslim community is now motivated & engaged in a globalized/militarized Sharia instead of a self-regulation position of Sharia for just the Ummah

At this juncture in history only complete domination of militarized Sharia/Islam will break the back of all Jihad Soldiers willing to die for their belief system...the Imams & weekly prayer sermons hold a key position in requiring "more Martyrs" or the "IS to stand-down" and quit fighting to dominate the world in an 'end-times' confrontation with the Infidel majority of the planet Earth.

like I say...Watch Russian actions... the bombings will increase and the 150,000 boots-on-the-ground Russians with the instructions to kill & break-things will wipe out AQ/al Nursa/IS/all other Jihad sects, including Boko Haram... until only old people and women & children are the only survivors....

pandors' box was opened by the jerk Westerners and only a radical solution will defuse the problem for this 21st century by the aggressions of a 7th century Zombie Nation paradigm
edit on th30144793210319212015 by St Udio because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 05:22 AM
a reply to: muse7

That graph shows that the war in Iraq made the country unstable, this is not a surprise.
It also shows that Pakistan became more extreme and unstable, but that's predominantly through their local inability or unwillingness to deal with the extremists in their own country.

This excuse that our actions are resulting in this are ignorant. I understand the motivation to do that, I really do, but it's still ignorant.

They attacked LONG before Iraq and Afghanistan. Lets not try to rewrite history here and claim that everything was rosy before the coalition went in there for regime change.

This is the same breed of extremism we have always seen, just under different banners. It's re-branding, nothing more. Before IS it was Al-Shabab and various other factions, before them it was AQ, before that it was another cult. These are all groups supported by the same sick and twisted radicals likely hiding in positions of power in other countries, nations like Pakistan for instance.

Ultimately, there is no excuse for someone murdering innocent people in any country, none. I don't give a damn what a nation does or their army, there is no excuse for individuals to inflict such disgusting atrocities on other innocent people. This ideology has nothing at all to do with "revenge", it's about a radical and sickening ideology using the cover of religion and revenge as an excuse to be psychopaths.

A perfect display of this can be seen in these "highly devout Muslims" who drink, take drugs, rape women etc... nothing to do with religion, everything to do with being in a cult.

What do we need to do?

I was against the wars, but I am all for us going into Syria and pounding these sick individuals into the dirt.
Sometimes you just need to use the weapons you have to defend your country from attack. There are far too many incredibly naive people out there who think there is some rational, peaceful resolution to this, but as many here know (from experience with simply trying to discuss rationally with the completely irrational) there is no dealing with these people. They are incapable of rational thought, there is nothing we can do to stop them from murdering people in the most disgusting ways because they are MENTALLY DERANGED.

People really don't seem to understand that these individuals are barely Human.

If you imagine the most sickening serial killer currently on death row in the US, then multiply that by a factor of 1000.

We should not be seeking to explain their actions, excuse their behavior, justify their twisted mentalities... these people are disgusting sub-Human pieces of excrement which need to be neutralized in the same way we would neutralize a rabid dog attacking people in the street.

Here is what I think we need to do...

1. Close our borders to anyone we cannot identify or anyone of dubious identity, over the age of 18.
2. Stop monitoring extremists and start rounding them up. We're wasting time and resources watching these people for more information when we should be dragging them into a cell, just as France is doing right now.
3. Bomb IS into the last century, take out every location within Syria, Libya, Iraq...
4. Find all sources of funding and consider a plan of action against them appropriate to their actions.
5. Send a specialized team into Syria, Iraq and Libya to execute every Taliban member, every IS operative, every radical we can find.
6. Isolate any country not conforming to a specific set of Human rights laws, no business, no banking, no arms deals, no association with them until they change policy.

Primarily, we need to isolate these countries from ours, while supporting genuine refugees. Lets not be ignoramuses here, a 10 year old kid is not a suicide bomber and his mother is taking him to safety to escape these same psychopaths we are fighting. They should be supported.

Nothing we do, or don't do, is going to change the behavior of these psychopathic individuals. They will kill in the most disgusting ways where they can, not because of "revenge", not because of religion, just because they are sub-Human, deranged creatures.

You cannot apply rational explanations to people who take pleasure in slaughtering others.
edit on 19-11-2015 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-11-2015 by Rocker2013 because: Can't count

posted on Nov, 19 2015 @ 05:53 AM
Oh, and we also need to start an international effort to end all religious delusion.
People can believe what they want to believe individually, but we need to stop this tribalism regardless of nationality, race, religion etc.

We need to take action against schools, organizations, cults, religious institutions which actively promote ignorance.

That means CHRISTIAN as well as Muslim.

If a school teaches that LGBT people are "evil" or "sinners" it needs to be investigated in the same way we would investigate a Mosque preaching ignorant views.

No more pussy footing around this issue, religious delusion is all around us and we need to stop it regardless of the brand of delusion. We need to teach kids about science, society, the natural world, and not religious idiocy. Parents can teach their kids whatever religious nonsense they want, in private (and they should and will be monitored when there are warning signs). These hotbeds of ignorance being funded by people with biased views and twisted plans for brainwashing need to be shut down.

Most of these individuals going to Syria from Europe have been radicalized in our nations, by twisted people living a comfortable life in our societies while brainwashing already mentally instable young men and women to fight some pathetic war for them. We need to place controls on places of worship, monitor them, get the support of rational and moderate religious leaders while condemning and removing the radicals and irrational.

Just look at what's coming out of Molenbeek right now, people are saying openly that while they have moderate Mosques, there are secret Mosques there where people are being radicalized at a young age. These places should have been shut down. There should have been raids carried out to stop them from operating. The Belgian authorities did NOTHING about these places - which obviously, when combined with their clear inability to operate a functioning security service, led to masses of radicalization in their country.

Ultimately I hope we start a concerted effort to end religious nonsense in our nations and support other countries to become secular. That should be done through education and choice, but desperate times call for desperate measures and right now we need to clamp down on all religious organizations in our countries. Freedom of religion is one thing, freedom to use that religion as a cover for mass murder is obviously unacceptable.

I dare say that 99% of Muslims in our societies would agree with this too, it's the 1% who don't that we need to focus on.

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