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The Obvious Strategy of The Islamic State Is Working, You’re All Being Stupid

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posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

And all the justification for actions in the ME doesn't move those children at all. Their destroyed lives is all they see. Want to cut down on terrorism, quit creating terrorists.




posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 01:52 PM
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originally posted by: chuck258

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
a reply to: combatmaster

All religions have fundamentalists extremist factions... what's the point?



The point is none of them are as dangerous today, here and now and tommorow as the Muslim Fundamentalist Extremist Factions.


Bingo.

I live in Toronto, and there is a huge Muslim population here. I have no problems with them at all. I have neighbors on my street that are Muslim, and business colleagues that are Muslim.

However, our Prime Minister is hell bent on accepting 25,000 Syrian refugees before the end of 2015, and I would be lying if I said I wasn't concerned in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks in Paris.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Quick reply. The ONLY reason there isn't more terrorism here is because there aren't enough terrorists here to do so. However...I understand we are letting them in. The same way they were let into Paris. As far as a child or toddler...of course. They see me every day and that increases the chances. But if I spent the same time with a terrorist...I bet I wouldn't last more than a day.

See the differences? Or ignoring them in lieu of another agenda...like our President?



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

Are you really saying that as long as it is someone else dying, it doesn't matter? I hope not and expect not but that sure is what it sounds like.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord



The amount of indiscriminate “Muslim hate” seen here on ATS and especially out in the wide-wide world, is precisely what ISIS/ISIL/Daesh is expecting. We westerners have consistently demonstrated a level of deep stupid in response to violence from radical Islam, that results in rampant Islamaphobia, Muslim hate, bigotry and intolerance. It plays directly into their stated strategy of polarizing Western society and politics, and “destroy the grayzone” (their words) by provoking overreactions against Muslims, so as to radicalize Muslim communities across Europe and North America.


If I may, prior to WW2... the Japanese worked to assure that Americans never saw them as enemies.
During the 1939 New York World's Fair, they donated a tree to NY. A tree that still stands... so far as I know.

Two and a half years later, they attacked us at Pearl Harbor.

Does that mean that ALL Japanese were behind this?
Does this seek to condone the gathering of Japanese Americans for internment camps?
No... not at all. It is simply a historical reference to remind us of how things work.

If Islamic radicals attack and kill and maim... one must understand the natural response.
If it had been Christians radicals who had done this to Islamics? Yeah... you have to know what it would be on TV every night.

I understand ATS seeking to rise above all the madness of the moment... but, please... and simply as a request, don't punish people for being who they are when expressing frustrations in a world gone slap to hell.

Best


- Redoubt



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis




This is not your country - this is ATS. It's not a free speech issue. You are not free to say whatever you want to say however you want to say it



Using censorship in threads arguing that no one's rights should be taken away. Classic.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: 222mockingbirdlane

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: StallionDuck
How many times can I say it... Those people are NOT Christians! They're not Christians unless they follow the teachings and ways of Christ.

But they believe they are Christians, and believe they are following the teachings of Christ, and the Word of God.

Just as ISIS believe they are true Muslims, and believe they are following the teachings of Mohamed.




Just like a lot of people today call themselves "Christian" and are not. I suppose it's true with muslim as well, but I'm no muslim scholar like yourself. I can't comment on what I do not understand.

If, in your point of view, it's personally subjective as to whether another person is a true Christian or not, then the same metric must be applied to all religions. Thereby, it can be accurate to consider that radical followers of Weaponized Islam are not true Muslims. And by extension, Muslims should not be demonized just as Christians should not be demonized.




Again, you staple with a focus on negative so called "Christian" atrocities. That's a really good misdirection,

It's not a misdirection, it's context.




My whole point in responding to you is DONT focus on one group when all this times, this issue has been going on with every group here and you don't seem to stand against it.

Don't presume a certain stance based on one thread from someone who's often too busy with other affairs to post as much as he'd like.




There is a difference between crazy people believing they are following the ways of Christ, and then doing something completely opposite, and Muslims following the words of the Quran, and being exactly right about what the Quran says..


"Exactly right" according to who?

And yes...even the New Testament encourages killing, mutilations etc..If you choose to interpret it with an extremist view..

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

It is the "My religion is the RIGHT religion" nonsense that is precisely driving ISIS...you might try to think a little differently.

You almost made the same point I did. Anyone can choose to interpret something any wacky way they choose, but it is just an interpretation. The Qurans orders to murder do not have to be interpreted! They are stated clearly.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: scorpio84
a reply to: Spiramirabilis




This is not your country - this is ATS. It's not a free speech issue. You are not free to say whatever you want to say however you want to say it



Using censorship in threads arguing that no one's rights should be taken away. Classic.


How is it censorship to enforce the T&C, which you agree to by posting here?


Your membership in the Websites indicates your acceptance of the above Terms and Conditions for Use as well as the following Additional Terms and Conditions of Membership.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: 222mockingbirdlane

Could you give an example of where they are stated clearly?



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: intrepid

I completely agree with you. I think we never should have gotten involved with the middle-east. Seriously...and not in hindsight. But the moment they move on our allies, we must intervene. That is the reason for having allies...to support each other. But if you believe that looking away from that area of the world would have excluded us from terror, I think you are wrong. Sure...we wouldn't have been a first level target, but eventually they would come for those who didn't fight back. Assuming they win, of course. It is like saying that if we didn't enter the war against Hitler, Hitler would have never bothered America. In my opinion.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: haman10




"I'm cautious near jews cause i wanna protect my family " thats exactly the same .


Racist or not, if you're a Palestinian Muslim, it'd probably be wise to be cautious around Jews, particularly if you are from the West Bank going to the Israeli side. Or really, at all times.




So don't turn this on me pal . it's not me calling you a bigot , it's you calling me a terrorist .



Did someone call you a terrorist? I lived in Thailand for several years and due to the fact that sex tourism is so prevalent, if I moved to a different neighborhood, I'd often get met with eyes that I knew were suspicious. Was it prejudicial? Of course. Hatred? Not by a long shot. Once I'd speak with them and live in the area a while, they'd learn more about me - see I wasn't there to bang hookers - and a trust would develop. Confuse prejudice for hate all you want, but your life would be better if you learned the difference.




yep , i'll punch them right in the face where ever i see them .


One of the biggest prejudices against Muslims is that they are ticking time bombs (no pun intended) ready to start violence when someone is saying/doing something they don't like. With your above statement, can you really blame anyone for holding that prejudice?



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:11 PM
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a reply to: marg6043


I am not your enemy


I know - not at all...

We're here to chat, discuss, exchange opinions...agree or disagree - just as you said

I disagree with your reply to the OP. For more than one reason

I disagree with it vehemently. Apparently

:-)



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: 222mockingbirdlane

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: 222mockingbirdlane

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: StallionDuck
How many times can I say it... Those people are NOT Christians! They're not Christians unless they follow the teachings and ways of Christ.

But they believe they are Christians, and believe they are following the teachings of Christ, and the Word of God.

Just as ISIS believe they are true Muslims, and believe they are following the teachings of Mohamed.




Just like a lot of people today call themselves "Christian" and are not. I suppose it's true with muslim as well, but I'm no muslim scholar like yourself. I can't comment on what I do not understand.

If, in your point of view, it's personally subjective as to whether another person is a true Christian or not, then the same metric must be applied to all religions. Thereby, it can be accurate to consider that radical followers of Weaponized Islam are not true Muslims. And by extension, Muslims should not be demonized just as Christians should not be demonized.




Again, you staple with a focus on negative so called "Christian" atrocities. That's a really good misdirection,

It's not a misdirection, it's context.




My whole point in responding to you is DONT focus on one group when all this times, this issue has been going on with every group here and you don't seem to stand against it.

Don't presume a certain stance based on one thread from someone who's often too busy with other affairs to post as much as he'd like.




There is a difference between crazy people believing they are following the ways of Christ, and then doing something completely opposite, and Muslims following the words of the Quran, and being exactly right about what the Quran says..


"Exactly right" according to who?

And yes...even the New Testament encourages killing, mutilations etc..If you choose to interpret it with an extremist view..

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

It is the "My religion is the RIGHT religion" nonsense that is precisely driving ISIS...you might try to think a little differently.

You almost made the same point I did. Anyone can choose to interpret something any wacky way they choose, but it is just an interpretation. The Qurans orders to murder do not have to be interpreted! They are stated clearly.


Do you read and write Arabic? then I beg to differ....

The Koran passages I have seen that support your...ahem..interpretation are usually translated in the most unfavorable way by those looking to declare the Koran as an evil book filled with calls for violence.

The Bible, both old and new testaments, have the same vulnerability.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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Taking things literally can really send one in the wrong direction when it comes to the point. Example:


“If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!”


Huh? Kill the Buddha? But wait, there's more:


It actually comes from an old koan attributed to Zen Master Linji, (the founder of the Rinzai sect). It’s a simple one:

“If you meet the Buddha, kill him.”– Linji

I’m sure you already realize that it’s not being literal. The road, the killing, and even the Buddha are symbolic.

The road is generally taken to mean the path to Enlightenment; that might be through meditation, study, prayer, or just some aspect of your way of life. Your life is your road. That’s fairly straightforward as far as metaphors go.

But how do you meet the Buddha on this “road?” Imagine meeting some symbolic Buddha. Would he be a great teacher that you might actually meet and follow in the real world? Could that Buddha be you yourself, having reached Enlightenment? Or maybe you have some idealized image of perfection that equates to your concept of the Buddha or Enlightenment.

Whatever your conception is of the Buddha, it’s WRONG! Now kill that image and keep practicing. This all has to do with the idea that reality is an impermanent illusion. If you believe that you have a correct image of what it means to be Enlightened, then you need to throw out (kill) that image and keep meditating.


www.dailybuddhism.com...

Somehow that sounds much more logical.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

The word Daesh is the best word to describe these animals. Takes the whole religious connotation out of the debate and describes these terrorist for what they are.


I admit, I call them ISIS both because Isis is an Egyptian deity that has nothing to do with Islam & because I see them as the Iblis State of Iraq & Syria/Levant (Iblis is the original name for our Devil, Shaytan).

As for the OP: Thanks for this thread. I keep trying to point out what's really going on w/these Wahhabi extremists & their backers, but I'm starting to see it as a pointless endeavor. Sometimes I literally have to force myself to keep speaking up about it on ATS, because there's no telling who might become curious enough to start fact checking these groups.


I have sympathy with that, these people are raiders, as Wahhabis were in the not so distant past.

Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab was considered by his Father, Abd al-Wahhab and his brother Salman Ibn Abd al-Wahhab who was an Islamic scholar and qadi, to be somewhere out there, with extremist views and these new teachings, and the brother was prompted to write a book refuting the new teachings.
The religious aspect becomes curiouser when it comes to what this refuted, 'fundamentalism' allows and what's not allowed by their own, 'official committee' which has been empowered to "Command the Good and Forbid the Evil."
Everyone is not allowed tobacco, alcohol or any other stimulants, yet the fighters are daily chewing on 'speed' in seemingly large quantities. In the past, everything they use, the technology, vehicles, mobiles would at one time have been a no no, and the Saudi king had to step in there, and tell them to pull in their horns a bit and to embrace these things. I consider these people as raiders, doing terrible things to innocent other humans, just as pirates were raiders, and did terrible things to innocent people even as historians and writers romanced them.
That they have backing, that's pretty clear, and governments need to start thinking seriously, if only in retrospect, their roles in unleashing these kind of terrorists into destabilising sovereign states and countries, for those government's ends. They need to earn the respect from those they govern, that's not happening this long long time.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Now you see why, I am not posting on the threads I listed, sentiments are too out of control, for that reason debating has become a fight of wills of who is right and who is wrong.

While I have my personal opinion on religion as a whole regardless of worshiping choices I sympathize with both sides right now, those that are outraged and hurt by the massacre and those that are caught amid the anger and hate toward anything that link them to the ones that masterminded the terrorist act.

I may be very strong on my opinions but I am human also, I am glad that I can take a step back and see how people are getting affected by the blaming game.

I will not directly call them stupid but more like caught up in the heat of the moment.

I am sure that is more information that we have not heard yet on how the whole incident in France developed, I still see the whole thing as an isolated opportunistic game of chance, is a lot of hate going around right now, I am not going to let it get to me, because is counterproductive.

Be well, I am sure things will calm down soon enough.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: scorpio84

Replying to your first item...since when has a civilian jew attacked a civilian palestinian? The other way around...yeah.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

ISIS isnt winning any "hearts and minds" because people are upset at getting a rock concert blown up. I dont personally believe in terrorism as presented, but for the hundreds of millions worldwide who do, theyre completely justified in being cautious about Muslims. You can label them "stupid" or "racist" or "phobic", but i say reasonably and undestandably cautious. Name calling doesnt bring victims of extremism back from the dead.

Did you give youself the 34 flags this thread has?


If we did a Venn diagram we'd have muslims and terrorists as distinct entitites but there WOULD be an overlap. It is politically expedient for the likes of the British Home Secretary to declare that these actions aren't conducted by muslims. But they are.

There is no getting away from that fact.

The more we're distracted by this frankly ludicrous argument detracts from being able to assess our options logically.

Here's my take:

There will be more attacks in Europe in the run-up to Christmas. There will also be many false alarms. This will create fear in the population.

The majority will increasingly view all Muslims and those they perceive to look like Muslims are a prospective threat. Muslims will become equally scared of the general population.

The military will be deployed on the streets to protect civilians.

We will have begun our state of permanent war.

There will be military action against ISIS but it helps create as many terrorists as it kills.

Beyond this, I cannot say - i suspect that will become the normal state of affairs for a long time. The only alternative is frighteningly like the 1930s. I think we're a very long way from it but i suspect younger people growing up with this state of affairs may not find the idea as horrific as we do.

I can say for certain that in general, i've never viewed people with suspicion as i go about my business but I can honestly say i've been more aware of those around me this week. I was in London during/after 7/7 and this feeling only lasted a few mins - this time i know it isn't going away and i'm comfortable that this is a majority experience.

I grew up with the threat of the IRA, saw a few things, matured a bit with AQ doing its thing and now we have the uber terrorist.

One who doesn't care about living, doesn't seek hostages for ransom but to kill - the same guy who sat beside someone just like you as they travelled, worked, ate, socialised all of a sudden trying to kill you. And you have no protection.

The fear of the enemy within is not the same as that of an external threat.

So spending our time arguing over who is the most supportive of the vast majority of innocent muslims is a waste of time. Lets try and think a way through this nightmare before it consumes us all.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord




yep , i'll punch them right in the face where ever i see them .


The OT is a record of atrocities committed by Hebrews. According to the OT, God commanded them to do that stuff. It is not, however, a command to future generations. It was a one time deal that they recorded for posterity. On the other hand, the Koran is full of commands of violence that are not set in a historical context as in the OT, but rather in way that is commanding to all generations.

OT = history book(s)
Koran = guide book(s)



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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Can we just get to comparing one and other to Hitler
and get this finished already.

There will be a clash of civilisations whether you want it or not..
it's happening right before our eyes and nothing will stop it.

/
edit on Tue, 17 Nov 2015 14:32:09 -0600322America/ChicagoTuesday4 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)



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