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The Obvious Strategy of The Islamic State Is Working, You’re All Being Stupid

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posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:05 AM
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originally posted by: StallionDuck
How many times can I say it... Those people are NOT Christians! They're not Christians unless they follow the teachings and ways of Christ.

But they believe they are Christians, and believe they are following the teachings of Christ, and the Word of God.

Just as ISIS believe they are true Muslims, and believe they are following the teachings of Mohamed.




Just like a lot of people today call themselves "Christian" and are not. I suppose it's true with muslim as well, but I'm no muslim scholar like yourself. I can't comment on what I do not understand.

If, in your point of view, it's personally subjective as to whether another person is a true Christian or not, then the same metric must be applied to all religions. Thereby, it can be accurate to consider that radical followers of Weaponized Islam are not true Muslims. And by extension, Muslims should not be demonized just as Christians should not be demonized.




Again, you staple with a focus on negative so called "Christian" atrocities. That's a really good misdirection,

It's not a misdirection, it's context.




My whole point in responding to you is DONT focus on one group when all this times, this issue has been going on with every group here and you don't seem to stand against it.

Don't presume a certain stance based on one thread from someone who's often too busy with other affairs to post as much as he'd like.




edit on 17-11-2015 by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: StallionDuck
How many times can I say it... Those people are NOT Christians! They're not Christians unless they follow the teachings and ways of Christ.

But they believe they are Christians, and believe they are following the teachings of Christ, and the Word of God.

Just as ISIS believe they are true Muslims, and believe they are following the teachings of Mohamed.




Just like a lot of people today call themselves "Christian" and are not. I suppose it's true with muslim as well, but I'm no muslim scholar like yourself. I can't comment on what I do not understand.

If, in your point of view, it's personally subjective as to whether another person is a true Christian or not, then the same metric must be applied to all religions. Thereby, it can be accurate to consider that radical followers of Weaponized Islam are not true Muslims. And by extension, Muslims should not be demonized just as Christians should not be demonized.




Again, you staple with a focus on negative so called "Christian" atrocities. That's a really good misdirection,

It's not a misdirection, it's context.




My whole point in responding to you is DONT focus on one group when all this times, this issue has been going on with every group here and you don't seem to stand against it.

Don't presume a certain stance based on one thread from someone who's often too busy with other affairs to post as much as he'd like.







THANK YOU! Now we understand each other. I was never against this way of thinking. I'm all for it. We're saying the EXACT same thing. I'm not sure where we got off track here.

Furthermore... Thank you for pointing out "Muslims should not be demonized just as Christians should not be demonized". THIS is all I asked of your OP. Nothing more.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: SkepticOverlord


How many times can I say it... Those people are NOT Christians! They're not Christians unless they follow the teachings and ways of Christ. Just like a lot of people today call themselves "Christian" and are not. I suppose it's true with muslim as well, but I'm no muslim scholar like yourself. I can't comment on what I do not understand.





Much of the people who carry water for Islam/DNC don't understand.


Skeptic is as much a Islam Scholar, as Obama is a Constitutional Scholar..
edit on 17-11-2015 by LeoStarchild because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:17 AM
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I think there are a lot of issues here.

IS in Syria and Iraq. Alqaeda, Bin Laden and 9/11. Palestinian terrorism dating back to the 1970s. Arab Israeli conflicts. It is much more than just IS.

Behaviour of muslims from a western perspective including Islamic law, sharia law, women in veils, stoning people to death, honour killings, outrage and killings over cartoons etc etc etc...

Muslim immigration into western countries, failure to assimilate, questions of muslim populations wanting and enforcing sharia law. Support of extremists and terrorism.

And it goes on. Yes there is anti-Islam sentiment which it could be argued is unfounded, however there are also regressive liberal apologists in denial. I've heard some academics say yes there is a problem with Islam and Islam and the west and Islam needs to be reformed.

This was a good discussion and is worth looking at. Yelling Islamaphobia every time someone criticises Isalm is simplistic.




posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: LeoStarchild

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: SkepticOverlord


How many times can I say it... Those people are NOT Christians! They're not Christians unless they follow the teachings and ways of Christ. Just like a lot of people today call themselves "Christian" and are not. I suppose it's true with muslim as well, but I'm no muslim scholar like yourself. I can't comment on what I do not understand.





Much of the people who carry water for Islam/DNC don't understand.


Skeptic is as much a Islam Scholar, as Obama is a Constitutional Scholar..


Religious scholarship is not a prerequisite to recognizing stupidity, bigotry or hate..

The OP is not about the DNC, President Obama or his constitutional knowledge. Not even close..

You seem painfully desperate to bait, and if I may say so, are very bad at it...not that it is a skill to take pride in to begin with.
edit on 17-11-2015 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:24 AM
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originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: haman10

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: haman10
Some people try to justify their feelings towards muslims by saying that they do not hate us , but they are simply cautious about us .

Yay ! Thanks for that.

You see that guy over there? He's a muzzy . Be cautious. He might just blow up .

Sounds pretty much bigotry to me.


So if you're equating caution with bigotry, like the OP is equating bigotry with being stupid, then I'm unashamedly and admittedly a stupid bigot, a label I don't mind as bestowed on me by anonymous posters on a site that don't even know me. If being stupid and cautious means the preservation and safety of my loved ones, then label me all you want. Your opinions mean squat to me.
Funny you should talk about labelling , cause you labeled me with terrorism just because i'm a muslim and yet i'm the bad guy here as i called those who are "cautious" near me bigots .

It's exactly like saying : "i'm cautious near black people cause i want to protect my family" !! well boohoo ! you're a racist and there is no need to sugar coat it .

"I'm cautious near jews cause i wanna protect my family " thats exactly the same .

So don't turn this on me pal . it's not me calling you a bigot , it's you calling me a terrorist .

judging people based on religion , affiliation and race is the definition of bigotry to me .

i cannot tolerate people who are judgemental towards others due to their skin color , or the holy book they read . yep , i'll punch them right in the face where ever i see them .



So Muslims label non-believers as infidels, who should be converted or they are going to hell, and and worst killed? That's not labeling? That's not bigotry? You'd "punch them in the face"? Ah, the religion of peace showing it's true colors once again.
ALL abrahamic religions call non-believers as infidels . infidel basically means a non-believer .

you seem to be one confused fella. if i want to punch racists in the face , it makes me , Haman10 , aggressive towards racists . What does it have to do with my religion ?

"Ah, the religion of peace showing it's true colors once again."

thats THE most stupid thing i've heard in the past couple of days . i bet you guys punch each other all the time in philadelphia

edit on 17-11-2015 by haman10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Indigo5

You must be new around here..

This whole thread is a bait. My point is: Some people act like they are 'above it all' when they are not. We are told to be reapectful and tolerate Islam.. And at the same time..the same mouths try to take down Christianity. Its not hard to see..unless you are one of the mouths I speak of.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:31 AM
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I don't blame the mods for reeling in some of the extreme language. How long do you think it will be until the S.P. Law center puts this site on its hate list? I worked there, and they don't mind trolling a forum, outing a person for what they wrote, and exposing that person, getting them fired from their jobs, etc. Bully tactics on their part, but it happens. Excessive "hate" speech could destroy ATS from the outside.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:38 AM
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originally posted by: JimTSpock
I think there are a lot of issues here.

IS in Syria and Iraq. Alqaeda, Bin Laden and 9/11. Palestinian terrorism dating back to the 1970s. Arab Israeli conflicts. It is much more than just IS.

Behaviour of muslims from a western perspective including Islamic law, sharia law, women in veils, stoning people to death, honour killings, outrage and killings over cartoons etc etc etc...



Weak central governments, undeveloped nations and nations that have had their evolution "retarded" by the Oil Industry...preserving and rewarding dictators while the common people suffer.

Religion simply fills the vacuum where hope of a future is meant to reside. Mix that religion with children raised in war and literally hopeless futures and you have extremism.



I've heard some academics say yes there is a problem with Islam and Islam and the west and Islam needs to be reformed.



Joseph Kony of "the Lords Resistance Army" is leading a Christian Army in Uganda that is chopping kids hands and noses off and raping villagers in Uganda in the name of Christ.

Shall we reform Christianity?

If Christ had never lived I have no doubt that Joseph Kony would be committing his atrocities in the name of the "Spaghetti Monster" or some other invention. Ditto ISIS...

The roots of Islamic Extremism are not in the scripture they hide behind.

It makes it a more difficult problem to solve...not being able to simply attack all Muslims...But it also leads us toward an actual solution.

The Arab Spring might solve some of it as the middle east slowly joins the rest of the developed world in fits and seizures. But we will be playing defense until that happens.
edit on 17-11-2015 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-11-2015 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: dixiecracker
All the more reason to resist being silenced. Bullies are emboldened when victims cower.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I come to ATS because I usually find that both sides of an issue are represented.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:45 AM
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originally posted by: LeoStarchild
a reply to: Indigo5

We are told to be reapectful and tolerate Islam.. And at the same time..the same mouths try to take down Christianity. Its not hard to see..unless you are one of the mouths I speak of.



That view derives from Islam vs. Christianity...I see them as equally peaceful, holy, faulted or evil depending on the Practitioner or Priest...



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn



So you see, I have seen the strong support that ATS has for other groups, up close and real personal, and I see even clearer now.


I think you misunderstood my point. Via not giving in to terror strategy all other groups gain a strong support. It's a pretty straightforward approach, given the rise of ISIS or the history of downward spiraling violence itself.

 


originally posted by: SlowNail
a reply to: PublicOpinion

We're labelled anyway, so it doesn't matter if the owners validate the notion? Is that what you're telling me?


Yep, just read the Intercept piece on how people get blacklisted. Linked in my first posting here btw.


1. ATS members do not deserve to be labelled as stupid simply because maniacs exist.


They don't get labelled as stupid when somebody criticises stupid behaviour only.


2. I'm not the first or only member to notice the agenda. SO's reference to 'privately owned forums' serves to highlight what I really think he wanted to say throughout this thread. 'This is my forum, you will follow my line of discussion'. This will alienate members. I, myself, am considering abandoning SO's personal blog in favour of an open forum. I'm sure there are others.


What a load of crap. You agreed upon the T&C, didn't you? How in hell is the request to stop with the hatemongery alienating members? Why don't you go to the other forums 'open' to hatemongery if you can't stand the fact, that ATS has some decent standarts?


3. Correct. It's also in danger of being seen as a safe haven for extremists, should the staff insist on validating that connection.


You don't get it, do you? The real danger is this labelling without any evidence whatsoever. There is no connection to an alleged safe haven for extremists, all 9/11 conspiracies are labelled extremist. You don't have to be an actual extremist to fetch that lable nowadays, just go ahead and read the fricken article.


We're seeing crackdowns across the board. Even ATS is becoming hostile to their own.

Well, look at that. Guess SO's right, the strategy is working. SO is proof of that, well intentioned or not. ISIS forced him to assail his own.


Crackdowns and forced behavior? You're just being seriously hilarious again, care to elaborate on how they forced something upon ATS? All the staff did is addressing hatemongery. Genocidal stupidity never was 'one of his own' in the first place, check the T&C.
edit on 17-11-2015 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I am simply arguing that I believe that adults make their own decisions on who they identify with, and that they should be accountable on Guilty by association... no ideology whether its a religion or a group of people lat forever anyway.. and at this point the Muslim religion has been a wreck to human life for a very long time... I personally would not identify with any group or religion if a small part of that group was causing worldwide choas... i wouldnt wqant to pass the religion to my kid bc then they would have a chance to be radicalised.. history should be teaching us that this ideology had its run, its not working out, and thats it. Oh and if you continue to carry this ideology your are responsible to for the actions. MAINLY bc now your exposing your kids to it who now have a chance to be radicalized... Just bc Muslim is a Religion and not a group based on Money or sex or whatever, it shouldnt have a double standard on if its NOT WORKING OUT. Most religions of the past went away on either the whole group being killed OR the group starting killing all kinds of people for the "guy in the sky" and lost all its followers... this is no different. I feel the OP doesnt beleive in guilty by assocatiation... so I have my personal opinion against that, thats all
edit on 17-11-2015 by tonycodes because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-11-2015 by tonycodes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 12:02 PM
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originally posted by: yorkshirelad

originally posted by: AnonymousMoose
To me the only real examples of Christian stupidity and hatred would be the Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, and the slaughter of Native Americans. The Spanish Inquisition is unfortunately what happens when any religion, even Christianity, becomes a theocracy. The Salem Witch Trials could be argued as hysteria and all around lack of wisdom and grace during those times...the slaughter of Native Americans, there's not much to argue there, early on they were a people group that were conquered by Spain, England, and France, but their continued mistreatment was truly a tragedy.

Ever read a history book ? Have you heard of a "Protestant" ? Have you heard of a "Catholic" ? Have you heard of a "Jacobite"? Have you heard of "Ireland"?

400 years of wars, beheadings, burnings, torture just because flavour X of christianity does not like flavour Y.


Of course, I was actually trying to acknowledge that atrocities do in fact happen under Christians. I had forgotten about most Catholic vs Protestant wars, I usually file those under theocracy, or at least differences in politics or geography. In Ireland one religious side happens to be for the united kingdom, while another religious side is for self governance in northern Ireland...but yes Christians still allow it to happen I suppose



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: LeoStarchild

I find it humorous that many wading into the religious tolerance issue with Islam in this thread are known atheists.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 12:05 PM
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One thing I find absurd is this mentality:

We’ll the IS wants us to attack them for some apocalyptic fantasies they have so therefore it would be playing in their hands to fight them:

SO WHAT!



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

Its not going to be apocalyptic if we attack them... they already destroyed the area they are located in and no ones going to shoot of nukes for isis... no major govts taking them out until now shows you just how unconcerned tptb are about isis



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 12:06 PM
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originally posted by: Mclaneinc

Lastly, can we forget the notion of moderate Muslims, there's no such thing, you have normal Muslims and Radicals, the so called moderates are simply radicals willing to give the impression of working with people but its a sham, used to get into positions of power and then the mask is taken off and its full blown Radical time.


If all Muslims were radicals, all 1.5 BILLION of them, ISIS would have much more members right?
I mean an army of 1.5 BILLION has to be a bigger army than the rest of the world combined.

I think you need to do a little more research on Muslim countries as a whole, most Muslim countries aren't actually radicalised suicide vest wearing psycho's.



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 12:07 PM
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a reply to: dixiecracker




How long do you think it will be until the S.P. Law center puts this site on its hate list? I worked there, and they don't mind trolling a forum, outing a person for what they wrote, and exposing that person, getting them fired from their jobs, etc.


How many lists are there? Blacklisting, hate list. Anything else?

Is there any evidence required to get listed, care to share some personal experience regarding this process?



posted on Nov, 17 2015 @ 12:07 PM
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I 100% agree with SO about not wanting to label all muslims as evil and to spread hate. I think any forum worthy of believing in the equal representation of all views would be wise to make that a standard.

My beef, and it looks like it was corrected, was being labeled as stupid.

I still believe ISIS was developed by the US.




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