Paris Attacks Planned, Coordinated with Military Precision by High-School Drop-out

originally posted by: Cabin
I personally do believe it is not unlikely that this guy was the "mastermind" behind the attacks.

....I believe he was trained from the start, given the skills, the contacts in Paris, known ways to avoid being spotted as possible terrorist.

Abaaoud was in Syria, and the experts say the operation was coordinated from Syria. Again, planning is one thing, execution is another. Europe was on high alert with intelligence, security forces and surveillance - Abaaoud was in Syria - but somehow all the bits and parts and people came together near perfectly in Paris, under his command, from Syria.

I think Abaaoud could be really, really, really smart. I don't think his education level matters much. I think a really, really, smart kid could plan this operation, and make bomb vests that explode at the right time, locate sources for all the needed weapons and materials and pull together all the right people needed to carry out the plan.

I just don't think he could execute the plan without on-the-ground professional "assistance" - whether or not he was in Paris, nearby Belgium or over 3000 km away in Syria.

a reply to: bastion
[

...don't give into the propaganda of these nutters and make them out to be clever or organised.... They failed, we will prevail.

If the goal of the operation was to re-gain disappearing access to national coffers and our tax dollars - the operation was a HUGE success. "Fighting terrorism" became the #1 priority at the G20 summit. Check out the reports, AND the $$$ commitments.

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: bastion
[

...don't give into the propaganda of these nutters and make them out to be clever or organised.... They failed, we will prevail.

If the goal of the operation was to re-gain disappearing access to national coffers and our tax dollars - the operation was a HUGE success. "Fighting terrorism" became the #1 priority at the G20 summit. Check out the reports, AND the $$$ commitments.

Sorry I don't think I quite understand your post (my fault not yours).

Do you mean in terms of the West going into all out war making us suffer disproportionately to any 'gains that can be achieved then I absolutely agree.

If you mean weapon drops and the like on ISIS I personally don't personally believe them to be true (apart from the proven beyond doubt shipments from Libya with the help of CIA/MI6).

If you mean them dominating the headlines and G20 then yes indeed they have achieved a huge success.

But as far as I've read (admittedly been very busy so not read in depth yet) the G20 are working together to stop ISIS funds, in particular cutting off oil revenues. I feel lazy for asking but can you provide the links you allude to? A lot of info is being published every minute f the day at the moment so I don't know which one you mean.

If you mean some other thing please feel more than free to post it below as I believe you potentially have a very valid point and hope we can keep this thread free of hate and petty arguments.

a reply to: soficrow

Just need a laptop, power point and how to use a watch. I'm fairly certain 12 year olds can do all of that.

a reply to: soficrow

Which is why, for the most part, the casualties weren't even more horrific.

Disgruntled people do horrific things on a fairly constant basis.

I've had no formal training in explosives, yet I could, with a little thought make a fairly effective bomb with stuff in my kitchen and garage. Firearms? Two hours in a city the size of Paris, if that long, I would have quite a stash.

With a little outside support from Daesh? Coordination? Easy-peasy. Even if the cops know about you, you only need enough trade craft to elude observation for a few minutes at a time. Dead drops. Physical notes. No electronic media of any sort. Or if you do use media, simple one time use codes aren't that hard to devise...who cares if they're broken later after the mission is accomplished.

All of these things can be done, not easily I grant you, with but a little thinking and planning. ...and I think more than a little of both went into this.

a reply to: DrHammondStoat

I don't think the stadium was a main target. It was a distraction.

They likely knew Hollande would be there. Would they have liked to get their people inside? Sure, but they really wanted to create a big distraction. What better way than to appear to be making a try for the Stade? Because of the presence of Hollande, it would suck a LOT of the emergency response to it and create a big distraction for the others attacking the Bataclan.

The Bataclan, which is owned by a prominent Jewish family and being played by an American band that had recently played Tel Aviv, and has close architecture and large, pack in crowd. They wanted as much time as possible to kill. The Stade distraction gave them more time to do what they came to do before a rescue at the Bataclan could be mounted.

a reply to: ketsuko

By the accounts I've heard, the stadium was a target.

But, thankfully, the dimwit screwed it up while trying to gain entrance, and self detonated.

Unless you've heard something new?

a reply to: seagull

It was a target, but I'm not sure they expected it to go down spectacularly. They always want to hurt and create mayhem, but the worst of their attacks was the theatre, and it seems to me they timed it to take advantage of the mayhem caused by the rest.

Law enforcement goes to the Stadium and the café and the smaller sites before they realize the magnitude of the theatre giving the theatre crew time to inflict maximum casualties to create maximum impact.

So, yes, it was a target.

Think about it like this - If they attack DC, they send someone to go after the White House while the Obamas are in residence. Do you think they will really plan on that attack going through or will they time it to go first hoping to capitalize on surprise and suck in all the LEOs because you know that's what would happen. Then a second team hits a secondary, soft target right after, as soon as all the LEOs start to mobilize toward the White House. How long would it be before law enforcement reorganizes to adjust to a secondary or tertiary or quaternary attack with the president and/or Congress under threat?

That's a scary scenario to contemplate and I think it's what happened in France. I hope our LEOs and others learn form it and adjust.

a reply to: ketsuko

You may have a point.

Obviously, I'm glad they failed. But knowing how security is very tight at sporting venues, you're probably right in that it was more hopeful, then expected...

The average age for a Navy SEAL is 28, Marine Corp force recon is 27, and US Army SF A Team is 32. I am not saying this guy is near as well trained and as legit as these guys, but if he has ground experience with combat operations and a mentor his age is right in the pocket so wouldn't actually be surprising at all.

As for taking bodies to mass graves, it's a job detail. Maybe they were buddies of his? Maybe it was just his turn for a sh*t job, we all draw those from time to time in the military.

a reply to: chiefsmom
Does it even really need to be planned that well? I mean you get a few people into a city like Paris, give them simple orders that their little terrorist activity will be to select from x choices and when the word is sent maybe tomorrow, maybe many weeks from then, whenever, they simply take over and do what as asked.

In theory, I could make connections with 5 different wannabe jihadists, let them know I am from terror command whomever they would be (ISIS, in this case), tell then to monitor some sort of app or newsfeed etc. and when the see the special GO Word, it will be followed by x type of target (ie: crowds, woman, gov't structure, free for all) they will have already been asked to acquire the tan vest (you know, to blow themselves up later) and then off they go. In 20 seconds, a command could be issued to any number of them and they will carry out some random attack at a place of their choosing as long as it fits the target type. This would be hard to prepare for since the ultimate plan is put into action and is irrevocable. It is also incredibly hard to stop since nobody except for the actual person wearing the vest knows what they are going to do. This is a activated "lone wolf" if I understand correctly. Anyone with any degree of education could spearhead this as the goal is to wreak havoc and destruction, there were no planned targets to occupy that required strategic abilities IMHO.

a reply to: bastion

I mean the war effort is being accelerated. A quick peek:

Bloody Business: Arms Manufacturers’ Stock Prices Soar After Paris Attacks

U.S. approves $1.29 billion sale of smart bombs to Saudi Arabia

Which Defense Contractors Win After French Attacks?

Now, with the attacks in Paris, defense contractors are gearing up for another round of profit.

Over the last five years the biggest makers of military hardware - Lockheed Martin (NYSE:LMT), General Dynamics (NYSE:GD), Northrup Grumman (NYSE:NOC) and Boeing (NYSE:BA) - have all scored gains that greatly exceeded that of the S&P 500.

Some of the biggest have gone to Northrup Grumman, which recently won an $80 billion contract for bombers that Boeing and Lockheed Martin are protesting. Deliveries start in 2025.

But the real news has been the move of these giant defense contractors into cyber-security, where they have been butting heads with cyber experts like L-3 (NYSE:LLL), Harris (NYSE:HRS) and Raytheon (NYSE:RTN), with great success. Both General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin are expected to be bidding for the government's latest cyber-command contract, while gains in the big hardware makers have mainly exceeded those in the electronics specialists over the last five years.

originally posted by: Baldryck
a reply to: soficrow

Just need a laptop, power point and how to use a watch. I'm fairly certain 12 year olds can do all of that.

Yes, that's all that's needed to make a plan if you have half a brain. But it's another story altogether to get out on the street and execute a plan in RL with RP.

a reply to: seagull

...All of these things can be done, not easily I grant you, with but a little thinking and planning. ...and I think more than a little of both went into this.

Yes. But. I don't think Abaaoud could have executed the coordinated attacks without on-the-ground professional "assistance" in Paris - whether or not he was in Paris, nearby Belgium or over 3000 km away in Syria. And supposedly, he was in Syria.

a reply to: Marid Audran

...if he has ground experience with combat operations and a mentor...

Key req that - a mentor. I'm just saying the official story doesn't wash. He supposedly ran the op from Syria. But. He needed professional assistance on the ground in Paris.



Good points btw. S&

FILE: Aw C’mon.

Early reports said the first killer to be identified was from a wealthy estate in Chartres. BUT, “We mustn’t tarnish everyone who lives on estates, that would be a real problem for France.”


So now, instead, the focus is on Molenbeek, a rundown poverty-stricken area in Brussels. Described as “home to many ethnic Moroccans and Turks, Molenbeek is also one of the country’s poorest areas” and no surprise, “connected to almost all of Belgium’s terrorism-related incidents in recent years.”

Most Belgians were stunned to hear that police had raided addresses in Brussels and arrested suspects, less than 24 hoursafter the Paris attacks.

However, few were surprised to hear that the swoops took place in Molenbeek, a run-down east Brussels commune that has long been a magnet for jihadists, gangs, drugs and lawlessness.

Handled. No more mention of Chartres. Or wealthy French estates.

.. why do people think planning this needs a lot of intelligence?

8 guys.. ak47s, home made explosives.
you drive around paris for an hour on a saturday night and find 3 places with a lot of people.

then you tell your groups of 2/3 people to go to that place and murder as many as possible.

its not brain surgery.. its simple - so simple a high school person could plan it.

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
.. why do people think planning this needs a lot of intelligence?

Hmm. 7 attacks, coordinated by a guy 3000 km away in Syria, just before the G20 Summit, with just enough death and mayhem to pull $Trillion$ of tax dollars out of all our pockets in the middle of a global recession to bump up the "War on Terror."

Sounds pretty slick to me.

Bloody Business: Arms Manufacturers’ Stock Prices Soar After Paris Attacks

U.S. approves $1.29 billion sale of smart bombs to Saudi Arabia

Which Defense Contractors Win After French Attacks?

Now, with the attacks in Paris, defense contractors are gearing up for another round of profit.

Over the last five years the biggest makers of military hardware - Lockheed Martin (NYSE:LMT), General Dynamics (NYSE:GD), Northrup Grumman (NYSE:NOC) and Boeing (NYSE:BA) - have all scored gains that greatly exceeded that of the S&P 500.

Some of the biggest have gone to Northrup Grumman, which recently won an $80 billion contract for bombers that Boeing and Lockheed Martin are protesting. Deliveries start in 2025.

But the real news has been the move of these giant defense contractors into cyber-security, where they have been butting heads with cyber experts like L-3 (NYSE:LLL), Harris (NYSE:HRS) and Raytheon (NYSE:RTN), with great success. Both General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin are expected to be bidding for the government's latest cyber-command contract, while gains in the big hardware makers have mainly exceeded those in the electronics specialists over the last five years.

a reply to: soficrow

Why was he 3000kms away? Why does someone 3000Kms away need to do any more than tell someone '' go to paris and kill ''

I heard this morning the mastermind was caught in Belgium, questioned and released because he wasn't on a wanted list.

What kind of planning do you think went into this that someone local couldn't do it?

1. You need 2 or 3 refugee's from Syria with the mind set of butchery
2. You find 4 or 5 people via online forums, mosques, or by visiting ghetto's who have nothing to live for and are angry.
3. Making home made explosives isn't hard.
4. I dont know about AK47's in Europe but I dont think they'd be hard to find especially if refugees smuggled them in.
5. You steal a couple of cars in Paris or rent one (you dont care if your names there, your on a suicide mission)
6. You then drive around for an hour, identify 3 places.. then make a phone call and say go - god be with you.

There's nothing difficult about it. There wasn't any tactical way they hit the places. They drove to them, got out of the car and started shooting.

This nonsense that it was a carefully organized attack is a load of crap designed to make you think the enemy is stronger and smarter than it really is.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

French police have said Abaaoud planned the attack from his base in Syria with help in Belgium and France.

I agree that the official reports are nonsensical crap.