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The Only Way to Defeat Terrorists

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posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: scorpio84




1). All terrorists who cause death are murderers, but not all murderers are terrorists.


This is so true, you then go on to make the comparison to mass shooting events and how we view them. I think that very much comes down to how each individual state defines terrorism because according to some laws mass shootings would be regarded as acts of terrorism. I think this also feeds into the debate of weather or not terrorism is a law enforcement problem or a wider national security problem that requires military intervention.



2). Not all Muslims are terrorists, but just about all terrorists are Muslims (if not all)


I am going to have to disagree with this point.

Yes the vast majority of terrorists are not Muslim however many terrorist groups do use Islam as the justification for their acts.

You see the problem is that there are lots of other groups, ETA and the IRA are still active for example there is also FARC the Lords Resistance Army and there are even still some reminiscent of the tamil tigers. That is just of the top of my head i am sure if i was to look hard enough we would find more.

There is another big point i would make, many of these groups such as ISIS only use religion as their moral justification of their acts through twisted interpretation of religious dogma, the religion itself is not the motivation however. In fact many of these "islamic" terrorist ordinations are actually more nationalistic, for example groups fighting in Chechnya, Palestine and parts of Africa although they call themselves "islamic" they are actually fighting for reasons more nationalist than religious.

I could actually probably go on about this point all day so for now i will move on.



3). Mass murder is being committed in the name of Islam - and Islam alone


Its really not....

While not acts of terrorism the mass-shootings in America are mass murder and there is no Islamic motivation behind them.

Another excellent example that contradicts this point of yours is the 2011 attacks in Norway by Anders Bervik that killed 77.



4). Islamic Terrorists are trying to bring about Islamization wherever they go.


Like i said above for some Islamic groups they are just trying to free what they see as their homeland, their goals are nationalistic not exactly about spreading their faith. Now yes there are some groups who fall into this category but Al-Qa'ida and ISIS are the only ones i can think of who neatly fit into this model.



6). We must become stricter


Not really 129 people dying in a single terrorist attack in the grand scheme of things really is not such a big deal. This massive media storm and calls for further restrictions on our civil liberties do nothing but give the terrorists more of the limelight. Just how strict do we get, right now in the UK they are talking about basically spying on everyone's internet activity, whats next, do we put CCTV with microphones in every room in peoples homes?

The balance between liberty and security is becoming to imbalanced as it is we do not need to get stricter we need to get smarter and grow a set of balls. The government's of the world need to basically make the very unpopular move to remove ISIS in a huge ground offensive then give that territory right back the people of Iraq and Syria then get out again.



I think it is a vile religion, but I think that about many other religions as well. However, the fact is - Islamic culture and Western culture are largely incompatible. There would be a greater amount of peace if we simply lived separately


Statements like this really get to me.

Basically this hate for Islam when we boil it all down is because there is a minority of that faith who use their religion as a moral justification for killing innocent people.

Thanks to that massive media attention this small group gets their actual perceived size and threat is greatly exaggerated.

I am going to quote the mighty Yoda

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

Think about that quote in relation to peoples hate of Islam. They fear Islamic attacks this fear leads to feelings of anger toward them which in turn leads to hate and now we have people all over the world suffering. We hate them so much we will not open our doors to their refugees and so the suffering of the refugees continues.




posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 07:39 AM
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originally posted by: scorpio84

2). Not all Muslims are terrorists, but just about all terrorists are Muslims (if not all)

It is wrong to assume that just because someone is Muslim, s/he is a terrorist or even supports terrorism. We would be remiss to forget how many Muslims have been slaughtered by terrorists. However, the fact is that today the terrorists are Muslim (at least they claim to be). You can bring up other groups like the IRA or ETA all you want, but ask yourselves - are the IRA and ETA a threat any more? Bringing up defunct terrorist organizations in a debate about today's terrorists is tantamount to saying we should just ride the tide until the storm blows over. Thanks, but no thanks.

You ask for solutions and yet you just trashed one in the bin that has actually worked !

Why are the IRA no longer a threat? Quite simply the UK government engaged in talks with them. The early talks were very secret for obvious reasons. Imagine the outcry by the hang em and flog em brigade in the 80's if they found out that Thatchers government was talking to the IRA whilst the IRA were bombing the Tories at the Hotel in Brighton.

That said, however, there is a massive difference between a politically or socially motivated group like the IRA and religious or ideological fanaticism like ISIS. It is even more difficult when they believe their death will make them martyrs. You cannot compromise with that kind of thinking so talks would be futile. What you can do is isolate them, remove the grievances that ordinary people have so that they don't look for solutions with ISIS.

It needs cooperation between all countries. A massive concerted effort to cut off all supply lines to ISIS territory. Remove the money supply. Ensure the surrounding countries are no longer run by despotic regimes and the people can get on and live normal lives. It is a huge problem to solve.

You will not get rid of ISIS by bombing. The only possible military solution is a ground offensive which would take years and cost many lives including our own troops. Even if you do that they will return unless the underlying social problems are removed that fed ISIS beliefs in the first place. Which takes us back to the talking.



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 07:48 AM
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originally posted by: scorpio84
3). Mass murder is being committed in the name of Islam - and Islam alone



This is a lie. Mass murder is committed in the name of literally any ideology hijacked by a charismatic madman.
edit on 16-11-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: scorpio84
3). Mass murder is being committed in the name of Islam - and Islam alone



This is a lie. Mass murder is committed in the name of literally any ideology hijacked by a charismatic madman.


Or a lone pissed off white kid with a gun.



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: scorpio84

Maybe the world and those who follow Islam should be educated on the true life and beliefs of Mohammed?

I don't practice any religion because historically and up to it's present day it's been used as a basis to brain wash and control their followers. It uses their narrow minded beliefs to judge and force political changes on others. Their leaders and followers have engaged in criminal rapes and molestations. It judges non-believers, and justifies killings and wars based upon their skewed and violent religious teachings.

Islam has been shedding blood since its inception. Christianity has also been involve in its own blood shedding in the past and up to it's current day. Both religions have hidden negative and violent chapters in their religious documents. This is why I say those who follow the Islamic religion and believe it's a "peaceful religion" should look into the life of Mohammed. To even follow a belief system and prophet who engaged in violent and sexual acts, is really ignoring the facts of your beliefs! The foundation of Islam is blurred by ignorance.

Let's stop this political correctness and call Islam for what it is!! A violent religion who's prophet engaged in actions that would be considered criminal in today's world. I can't respect someone who would blindly follow a leader or teaching who clearly does not represent peace, love or respect for humanity and all of God's creations.

I would rather be called a raciest than accept someone who believes in a religion that harbors such barbaric practices and justifies Sharia law. You cannot say you follow a "peaceful religion" and cover one eye and ignore it's current and past atrocities! Your religious beliefs associates who you are!

For example; Your a KKK member, participate in marches, but don't engage in violent behavior. Your leader says they don't engage in violence against African Americans. However, you still are associated with the violent and extremism of this organization. Don't get upset if someone calls you a raciest or blames you for the violence your organization is responsible for.




edit on 16-11-2015 by WeRpeons because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 07:59 AM
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a reply to: yorkshirelad

To be fair even at that elements of the IRA are still active and have been becoming more and more active in recent years.



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 08:04 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit


The existence of such a group does not change the fundamental truth.

The threat is irrelevant. The scale of it is irrelevant. How imminent the threat might be is irrelevant. Unless it can be countered without the erosion of freedom and liberty, then the battle is already over.


^^^^ I believe that is very relevant.



If my nation must fall at all, if its people must be denuded of their rights and freedoms, then let it be the enemy who bring that to us. Let us never do it to ourselves out of weakness, fear, cowardice. Let us stand on our principles and our values, let us stand on our freedom and liberty, because if we die on our feet, at least we will never have to live on our knees, and what is more, let all the pathetic swine who want to hide away from the consequences of their freedom be the first to catch a bullet.



Trouble is we don't need to have the enemy 'bring it to us' they are

already among us.... and we don't know who they are.



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 08:35 AM
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originally posted by: eletheia

^^^^ I believe that is very relevant.


Then, with respect, your priorities are simply wrong.




Trouble is we don't need to have the enemy 'bring it to us' they are

already among us.... and we don't know who they are.


Nonsense. The government already know who they are, and that will not prevent an attack going ahead at some point, should it become politically expedient for someone to have it happen. It never has before, and yet most people who have successfully carried out an attack in recent years have already been a source of concern for the intelligence services for some time, before they actually got to carry out their attacks. Fat lot of good that surveillance did anyone, eh?



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: scorpio84

Yes, it is the terrorists fault.

But ONLY the terrorists, not others who share elements of their religious beliefs, dress code, skin colour, the sound of their names, their nation of origin, or any other intersection of their individual Venn diagrams!

I have just posted a response which details a proper method for removing the actual terrorists, without causing unnecessary fatalities, and it is the only one which any nation has any business enacting, what so ever.


I think I would have to disagree with you there. It's the silence of 'moderate' Muslims that helps prop Islamic radicalization. The Paris incident had many moving parts and the radical ideology is not compartmentalized within the religion. Lots of people new about it before hand because of the religion's ability to flourish without any opposition. There were no police tip-offs, no one 'ratted' and all those in the know did anything to stop it. Any reform of Islam must come from within. This is just not happening at all.
edit on 16-11-2015 by FlySolo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 11:05 AM
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A retaliative very high up in the Marine Corps says we will have to kill them back a generation or two. We eventually will gas them. Like killing off varmints. His words not mine.






posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 11:11 AM
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originally posted by: FlySolo


I think I would have to disagree with you there. It's the silence of 'moderate' Muslims that helps prop Islamic radicalization. The Paris incident had many moving parts and the radical ideology is not compartmentalized within the religion. Lots of people new about it before hand because of the religion's ability to flourish without any opposition. There were no police tip-offs, no one 'ratted' and all those in the know did anything to stop it. Any reform of Islam must come from within. This is just not happening at all.


I have to agree with you there. I haven't personally seen or heard of any

Imams, or Muslim clerics coming forward and denouncing the atrocities.

When this would be an ideal opportunity for them to distance moderate

Muslims from the carnage.

In fact the silence is deafening!!!



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 11:28 AM
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Total re colonisation of the ME and North Africa is needed with miltaries of the big five Russia, USA, China, EU and India taking control for 45 years until the area is totally de nazified. Total control of the education system in those areas so tye youth can be brain rewired into civilised ways. If the big five do this (they've all got muslim terror issues) then there is a chance that we can save ourselves from daily bomobings like Beirut, Paris etc.

Failure to do exactly as I have proposed = Islamic terrorist will eventually get hold of WMD and let them off in our capitals. Millions are going to die with new types of attack. This WILL HAPPEN unless we take out the mind set and that means total re colonisation.

Remember these regions have proved themselves not ready for independence after giving them fifty years to prove themselves. Time is against us................... There's a very real WMD coming our way



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 11:29 AM
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originally posted by: scorpio84

1). All terrorists who cause death are murderers, but not all murderers are terrorists.


2). Not all Muslims are terrorists, but just about all terrorists are Muslims (if not all)


3). Mass murder is being committed in the name of Islam - and Islam alone


4). Islamic Terrorists are trying to bring about Islamization wherever they go.


5). War is not the answer


6). We must become stricter


7). Separate but Equal



First you are showing a definite bias and naieve.

On point one: I'll basically agree that all terrorists are 'murderers' however would argue that all 'murderers' are, in fact, terrorists as well. I think what you are trying to say is that all 'killers' are not terrorists.

Murder hinges on 'intent' (well except in particular cases in the US judicial system - don't know about other countries) not action.

Point two: No - many other 'groups' use terrorism as a tactic for revolution and change. Arguably, the first terrorists were Zealots. At least in Western history. Don't know about the East.

Point three: "Mass Murder" has been committed by many groups and governments throughout history. Most non-Islamic.

Point four: Perhaps that is there main focus. But that would also be true of any 'fundamental' group practising violent tactics for change, it is not exclusive to Muslims.

Point five: I agree. War doesn't promote the end of war. War as a means of ending war doesn't work long term, it only results (as the middle east shows) festering resentment and anger which will explode once again. Think Germany after WWI under horible austerity in order to pay war reparations, the result WWII.

Point six: Stricter? About what? How? Legally? Morally? Who chooses the rules?

Point Seven: Doesn't work for many of the same reasons as for point five. While it is important to 'keep company' with those that share your 'prinicples' it is also necessary to be exposed to those that are different in order to recognise and indentify with the common humanity of ALL PEOPLE. Integration and exposure is necessary to maintaining an open and flexible mind that practises moral principles in all areas of life. Integration of races, religions, ages, political ideaogly are all necessary if we are to ultimately end war as a way of life.

Nicely presented.

To understand and relate to ALL PEOPLE you must listen to THEM, not listen to 'hearsay' about them.



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 11:34 AM
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Don't read much do you:

www.wsj.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Hurts them more then the West....

Took me two minutes.... Make an effort or at least the appearance of an effort to speak truth and not further spread divisive propaganda.



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd
Don't read much do you:

www.wsj.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Hurts them more then the West....

Took me two minutes.... Make an effort or at least the appearance of an effort to speak truth and not further spread divisive propaganda.



Those are old links the first was from January 2015 .....

The other three were the same from July 1st 2015 ......

Still a deafening silence for yesterday's atrocities ......



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: eletheia




In fact the silence is deafening!!!


Only when you're living on the moon.
Start reading, go here:

Why Muslims Hate Terrorism More -
Muslim groups and leaders are constantly denouncing terrorism, but most Americans simply never see it. Answer? Make sure they see it.


Same old story, but you folks never listen.

Paris shooting: Top French imam condemns attack, calls it 'a declaration of war'

Are you entitled to your beloved opinion of Islam or what exactly is your problem?



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 01:44 PM
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Modern phones operating as virtual location devices - vehicles fitted with map functions using gps - merchandise in department stores fitted with electronic alarm trippers - credit cards brimming with data chips - released-in-public criminals with gps bracelets etc. etc. etc...and caches of high powered weapons used in 'terrorist' attacks, hidden by plotting, brain-addled 'cells' are circulating around the world unhindered...the manufacturers of these weapons of death should be required to chip every weapon leaving thier factory with hidden location devices, cast into the metal body...

Å99



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: eletheia

Fantastic spin there.

Have you considered how little your safety is worth, when you have no freedom to enjoy breathing with? If you believe you can enjoy security without freedom, why not go and live in China, or North Korea?


I know we put a huge value on our freedoms, but not having some of them isn't the end of the world. I was living in Thailand (Bangkok, specifically) during the latest coup. Right after the coup, there was military law with soldiers everywhere and curfews. It may seem horrible, but really it wasn't. Yes, some freedoms were curbed, but about the only thing I couldn't do that I may have liked to would be go outside past 10 p.m. (and even then, you could tell the military you were on the way home). Now, you may not like this loss of liberty but I'll make two points as pertains to Thailand:

1). It was a slight inconvenience, but I didn't feel like my life was somehow made worse

2). Violence stopped pretty much immediately

The loss of liberty is a natural occurrence when providing the safety of everyone.



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: scorpio84

Your a coward.

Cowards trade freedom for a abit of security.

And its cowards like you that are behind dictatorships and some of the worst regimes in history.

It cowards with "good" intentions that pave the way to hitlers and stalins.



edit on 16-11-2015 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)




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