The Only Way to Defeat Terrorists

I'd like to think that here on ATS that while we may have differing opinions on a wide rang of topics, we could at least agree on one thing: that global terrorism needs to be stopped. However, so long as we bicker amongst each other about how to define it, who is perpetrating it, etc., we will not end it. The time is now (actually the time has been here for some time already) to end political correctness and say what needs to be said. Here are some of my thoughts on the issue, in no particular order:

1). All terrorists who cause death are murderers, but not all murderers are terrorists.

There are a lot of people I've seen on ATS and elsewhere who say "well, what about so and so who shot up a school?" To that I say - it is terrible - but not the same. The person shooting up a school did not do so to try to bring about a full on cultural replacement. A school shooter is not trying to force an ideology on an entire people. That is what is at the heart of terrorism - threats, kidnappings, murder - to force people to accept their way of life.

2). Not all Muslims are terrorists, but just about all terrorists are Muslims (if not all)

It is wrong to assume that just because someone is Muslim, s/he is a terrorist or even supports terrorism. We would be remiss to forget how many Muslims have been slaughtered by terrorists. However, the fact is that today the terrorists are Muslim (at least they claim to be). You can bring up other groups like the IRA or ETA all you want, but ask yourselves - are the IRA and ETA a threat any more? Bringing up defunct terrorist organizations in a debate about today's terrorists is tantamount to saying we should just ride the tide until the storm blows over. Thanks, but no thanks.

3). Mass murder is being committed in the name of Islam - and Islam alone

We can talk about the Crusades till the cows come home. We can discuss the atrocities committed by the Hebrews upon reaching Canaan. If we were living hundreds or even thousands of years ago, bringing up ancient history may be a valid argument. However, it is now 2015. For anyone who thinks that Islam is just 600 years behind, you err. First of all, when Islam was founded, it was able to build on a wealth of knowledge. Furthermore, if you think that Islam is just a late bloomer, then I invite you to study one of the most fascinating periods in human history - the Golden Age of Islam.

4). Islamic Terrorists are trying to bring about Islamization wherever they go.

Quite often in the West, we are so tolerant that we think others are equally so. We believe that no one would try to attack our culture, because we (no longer) do such a thing. For those who do not want to see their cultures destroyed and relegated to history books, stand up to this tyranny. For those who do not care - please, just stay out of the way.

5). War is not the answer

We are not fighting a nation. Many people like to compare the fight against Islamic terrorism to the fight against Nazi Germany. Back then, there was a nation to fight against. Now, the fight is against thousands (if not millions) of people spread across the globe. Muslim terrorists are responsible for deaths not just in Paris and NYC - but in Nigeria, the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, Pakistan, Indonesia, Somalia, (South) Sudan, etc. A cohesive military operation is not going to destroy a group that is spread out so thin. In fact, we may not be able to destroy the terrorists at all - and we may not need to.

6). We must become stricter

It is a sad fact that in order to be safe we have to inconvenience some people, but that is what is necessary. Some may call this living in fear. I call it being practical. In another thread, I give a plan for dealing with terrorists and the threat of terrorism, which I will give here:

Desperate Measures

Some may see this as hateful, but I see it as prudent. Only in the West is it even a big deal to profile others. Every other culture profiles foreigners regularly. Every other group does what it can to protect its own culture. Why must it be that those of use who wish to protect Western culture and ideals get verbally spat upon by people from within our own group?

7). Separate but Equal

Some people would like to see the eradication of Islam. I wouldn't. I think it is a vile religion, but I think that about many other religions as well. However, the fact is - Islamic culture and Western culture are largely incompatible. There would be a greater amount of peace if we simply lived separately. We can have trade, visit each other...no one is saying we build walls.

Anyhow, what do you all think, ATSers? Please, if you disagree with me - that's fine. Just provide some ideas of your own.

a reply to: scorpio84

Defeat terrorism? Is that even possible? It's almost like trying to defeat human difference isn't it?

So long as people have different skin pigmentation...different religions..different poltical views...different world views...and just different ideologies in general...you can always expect a few to become what we now call "terrorists"

Education is the only thing that can prevent terrorism...imo at least.

A2D

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

Defeat terrorism? Is that even possible? It's almost like trying to defeat human difference isn't it?

You are correct. In my other thread I said as much - I fear I may have given this thread the wrong title.

So long as people have different skin pigmentation...different religions..different poltical views...different world views...and just different ideologies in general...you can always expect a few to become what we now call "terrorists"

Except that right now the only terrorists are all Muslim. Okay, fine- I will relent to the point that there are environmental terrorists and those people blowing up abortion clinics are terrorists - but linking them to Islamic extremism would be a bit of a stretch.

Education is the only thing that can prevent terrorism...imo at least

I agree - but that is for the long run. We need some short term solutions as well.

a reply to: scorpio84

The crucial thing is to ensure that ones response to terrorism does not create more terrorism. It is also vital to ensure that preventing terrorism does not mean damaging liberties, because that defeats the object of preventing the terrorism in the first place, and WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!

Therefore, it is less important to think immediately of what to do, but more importantly what we may NOT do, on pain of death, even if it means allowing risk into our lives, to solve this situation.

We may not erode civil liberties.
We may not bomb and bomb and bomb to solve a problem which has only been made worse by bombing.
We may not prohibit worship of any religion.
We may not allow unofficial militias to spring up in hatred to lash out in ignorance against innocent people in retaliation for the crimes of terrorists.
We may not allow our governments to guide us, but be the hand that steers them toward resolution.

All things which fall in violation of these basic rules are invalid, and will make the situation worse, not better or make saving the world moot.

I would rather be dead than live in a fascism for any reason, rather suffer the consequences of too little security and too much liberty, than ever loose what little liberty remains to me. Others are welcome to their opinion, but they are not welcome to inflict its consequences on me and mine. Freedom, or death. There is no third way.

a reply to: scorpio84


As I have said many, many times before Political correctness

and Human rights will be the death of civilisation as we know it.

We have become so polite and afraid (yes afraid) to appear racist

or bigoted that we bend over totally and get walked over.

Its time we regained some PRIDE.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Very well put my friend. I would elect you.

A2D

I believe the only way we can stop war and terrorism is the realization that we're all interconnected on a universal level. The further you move back the more you realize it's all 1 picture. Seperation is an illusion. I'm probably in the wrong corner of ats though lol, i'm just going to say that and quietly slip back to the philosophy section

But hey, not blurring the lines between racism and fear would be a good start

a reply to: scorpio84

You make some reasonable points in this OP, but the sub-text of your overall posts (thus far) seems more towards the extremes. You want to turn the 'white' West into a gated community that keeps the Muslims out. Yeah, you've allowed for the 'citizen' Muslims to remain, but your sub-text suggests that's not really on the table; it's a convenience to take the edge of what's essentially an extremist position.

You're calling for an apartheid system when history has already shown us how such a system requires enforcement. The means and methods of policing the apartheid system leads to ghettoes and dehumanising those on the outside of your gated community.

There's an issue with how you present Muslims too. There's a middle class who work, run businesses, trade in stocks and shares etc. There's a medical class who occupy roles at every level throughout the world. All of these professional, respectable people aren't represented in your master plan to end terrorism. They aren't extremists and yet you think it's fair to reduce their status and expel them.

You'll want to argue here that it's okay for them to stay; these 'good Muslims.' Who'd want to stay in a community where you are characterised as an existential threat and a potential terrorist?

Again, this brings my thoughts back to your sub-text. What you want is forced deportation of millions. The outcome would be similar to that of the Jews when they lost their businesses and properties. Such actions wouldn't lead to more peace or less terrorism would they?

Your views tend to align with some historical figures who don't look so good in the history books.

a reply to: TrueBrit

so basicaly we do nothing is that what you're saying?

a reply to: 711117

You are absolutely right, and not just philosophically, but in scientific truth.

Colour, ethnicity, culture. These things are fleeting, but we bleed when we are cut, we all get sick when exposed to dangerous pathogens, we live by eating and maintaining hydration, by seeking shelter from the elements. A comet from the heavens striking this world will care not for our petty differences, and petty they most certainly are. It will raze all life from the face of our Earth, regardless of how noble or pious that life might be.

The wedges between us are manufactured decades before they are driven home, by events which, by the time we learn of them, have been obfuscated by spin, buried for generations, hidden by hands many, and of dark intent. We are being lead to the brink by forces beyond our control, and we allow those forces to control our populations by deceit, rather than having our populations control matters by their own force of will and intellect. We have been stunted to make us pliant and easily fooled, and it makes me sick.

originally posted by: eletheia
a reply to: scorpio84


As I have said many, many times before Political correctness

and Human rights will be the death of civilisation as we know it.

We have become so polite and afraid (yes afraid) to appear racist

or bigoted that we bend over totally and get walked over.

Its time we regained some PRIDE.

A lack of human rights would also be the death of civilization as we know it. You cannot abandon the values of Western civilization in order to defend it. While I. Am the last person to worry about being politically correct, we cannot abandon our principles in anger or there will be nothing left to defend.

a reply to: Kandinsky
like the romans and the persians and the greeks and the english and the a.. oh wait i see what your doing
ok yeah carry on.

So what I'm getting from ATS is that the only way to deal with terrorism is by committing the worst crimes to humanity in the 20th century. Internment/ concentration camps and nuclear obliteration of countries. I'm not sure I can handle this madness much longer. Scary to see what a bit of fear, propaganda and a few YouTube videos can do to rational sane human beings. I can only assume few people on this site bothered with history class. too busy dishing out nuggies and wedgies on nerds. 😂 whether to laugh or cry?

originally posted by: TrueBrit

Freedom, or death. There is no third way.

All those *victims* in Paris were enjoying their *freedom*.....

When death was inflicted on them.

Is that what you look forward to?

originally posted by: Metallicus


A lack of human rights would also be the death of civilization as we know it. You cannot abandon the values of Western civilization in order to defend it. While I. Am the last person to worry about being politically correct, we cannot abandon our principles in anger or there will be nothing left to defend.

It is my experience when one is exercising their *human rights* there is

invariably another one who is having their *human rights* violated.


As a recent example an illegal immigrant was appealing against

being deported after his sentence of imprisonment (for two rapes

citing that his human rights were being violated.

WHAT ABOUT THE HUMAN RIGHTS OF HIS *VICTIMS*

a reply to: PLAYERONE01

Where did I ever imply that no response was the correct one?

Are you really saying that you believe that the only way to be secure is to sacrifice that which most needs protection in the first place?

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

Exactly.... if there is one thing that humans are good at, it is knowing and defining one self by looking at those opposite from you. War is a very good tool for this game, because it is self perpetuating, more war leads to more violence and retaliation which again requires more war to defeat the violence caused by war.

Sheep love this game, because it's so easily measureable.

a reply to: eletheia

Fantastic spin there.

Have you considered how little your safety is worth, when you have no freedom to enjoy breathing with? If you believe you can enjoy security without freedom, why not go and live in China, or North Korea?

I'd say syria is easy to deal with but it requires someone to step up and form a coalition. First you set up UN safe zones for gods sake we have people killing themselves trying to cross the med. From the UN safe zones these people could apply for citizenship this gives the country they apply to time to investigate. Because frankly just letting people in your country is stupid when you know they are from an area rife with terrorists.

As far as Islam the way to deal with that is fairly simple as well a coalition could be set up to attack terrorists any where in the world. Take away their safe havens and kill them. Now this will cause civilian casualties like all wars do. And it also requires the realization that Islam is one of the factors that leads to terrorism. You don't have Christians Jews or Buddhists blowing up people. Well Buddhists will light themselves on fire but again not the same. Since this is obviously a factor involved we just have to admit these people conning from the middle east need vetting. Stop playing this games of racism etc it does nothing but blunt the ability to fight terrorism and makes their access to targets easier.