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Christians: Isn't owning slaves perpetual STEALING?

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posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 09:37 AM
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The fact that both the Old Testament and the New Testament of the Bible condone slavery is indisputable:

Proof #13 - Take a look at slavery

According to the Bible, Jesus approved of beating slaves for not doing what their "master" wanted:


Luke 12:47-48

47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.


I'm not here to discuss the fact that the Bible condones slavery. What I want to do is discuss a logical contradiction concerning that that I've never seen discussed before.


Exodus 20:15

"You shall not steal.


Exodus 20:15 is one of the ten commandments. I can't believe I've never thought of this until recently...

How is slavery not perpetual STEALING?

Can anyone explain that? You can't use the culture defense because this is a logical problem. It goes beyond culture or the meaning of words.

My opinion is that this is one of those problems that discredits and disproves the Bible completely. It's not a moral issue, it's not a faith issue. It's a gigantic glaring logical problem that makes the entire Bible look nonsensical. Just add this one to a long list of those but I'm happy to make a small contribution to the list.
edit on 15-11-2015 by Profusion because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 09:54 AM
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posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

May I ask why you are wanting to start a debate or an argument against Christians that believe the bible? You seem you want to discredit the bible really bad. If you don't believe it, that's fine. The bible was written by man, and then translated by man, and then translated again by man, and who knows how many more times the words were mis translated. Do you think all Christians believe in this bible through and through?

Just asking. I guess I would call myself a spiritual being residing in a shell of a human body. Sure I was raised in church but my beliefs don't follow fully I suppose. And the reason.. Is cause I know how when I story is passed along from generation to generation ... Some where along the way, the story changes. So how in the world do we know the actual true stories.. I feel we don't. I think the bible is just full of metaphors upon metaphors and few true stories with changed wording in between.. But that's me. And you are you


Oh and by the way.. I'm a very illogical person. I believe in spirits of different realms and all sorts of myth to me aren't myths in my head. But see maybe I'm insane then.. Who knows, I hope I don't regret posting this, I usually try and stay out of this dang forum but I saw your title and clicked and read anyway.

So to your question from the op.. Stealing is logically wrong? So owning a slave a logically wrong.. Now I'm confusing my brain cause I'm not fully awake.



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: Profusion
I really hate to be the one saying this, but Jesus didn't exactly condone slavery. The verses you cite were his way of helping the people he was talking to understand what god expects of them as his servants. So he used something they were familiar with. Jesus spoke to slavery(and many other things) when he said, Do unto others... The idea being that if they followed his commandments, they would free their slaves for the sake of their conscience toward him.

It's true that he also didn't condemn slavery, but there were many things he addressed by simply addressing human nature, instead of listing them off, one by one.



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:02 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

You know when I first went to work for someone else I was willing to do the work for a price .We sell ourselves to a form of slavery nearly every day . Wouldn't it be great if we had a loving ,caring boss and only had to do work we loved and didn't disagree with ....Slavery has many forms . I see a rich farmer that has food and shelter and needs workers and I approach him and work out a deal . Is he stealing from me or am I stealing from him or are we both getting something from the arrangement we enter into ......Back during the early slave market in North America there was a difference between slaves from Africa and Ireland . The slave traders couldn't care less about their white slaves as they were ridding the European countryside of undesirables and causing colonial rule while the Black slaves had a $$$ attached to them and was a investment to be taken care of ....I forget the book I read about the early years of North America and the slave trade but it did lay it out quite well in a context that made a lot of sense ....The Indians didn't make good slaves and could easily run away and live in the woods ....not so easy for the others to do as it can be a brutal environment to be on your own .



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: Klassified

Nicely stated there. I read what I wrote back and my gosh I'm all over the place! I really haven't woken up today. Yikes. Maybe I should delete it all. Edit gives me a two hour window... Hmm...



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:05 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

Slaves aren't human...they are property, bought and paid for or taken in battle! They are YOURS to do with as you see fit just like animals.

It's in the Bible....




When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

edit on 15-11-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: olaru12

I think even a prostitute sells her soul to slavery but usually wants the price to be paid ,and has a time limit to it .



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:10 AM
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originally posted by: natalia
a reply to: Klassified

Nicely stated there. I read what I wrote back and my gosh I'm all over the place! I really haven't woken up today. Yikes. Maybe I should delete it all. Edit gives me a two hour window... Hmm...

Well, if you've seen my posts, you know I have my issues with religion, but in this case, I felt the OP missed the mark, and just wanted to give some perspective.



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:17 AM
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Some Christians believe the Bible is the infallible word of God.





However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


I wonder how Canadians fall under this guide line?

I know it's ok to have Mexicans.
edit on 15-11-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:17 AM
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At that time, in Jerusalem, under Roman Occupation, slavery was state sanctioned. Jesus was using it as an example in allegory, not condoning it.

The Bible was written (by men) long after he supposedly said that, anyway. Nobody was there recording anything he said, its all word of mouth.

The trick is figuring out how the men who wrote this stuff found the wisdom to do that.

As far as slavery once you divide people into classes, you establish less than, more than groups. They divide and rule this way to make the less thans do all the work. Then as now.



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: olaru12
Some Christians believe the KJV of the Bible is the infallible word of God.





However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Yes they do. A sizable percentage do. It came out of the 80's, when the NIV (Never Inspired Version) was becoming popular. Several books were written to combat the perceived assault on the "word of god".



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: Klassified
I was told that NIV stood for "Nearly Infallible Version".



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Klassified
I was told that NIV stood for "Nearly Infallible Version".



How can something be "nearly" infallible? Infallible is an absolute!



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:32 AM
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a reply to: olaru12
Obviously the joke (which was not mine) needed to account for the "N".
Anyway, 99% can be called "nearly".



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:38 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Klassified
I was told that NIV stood for "Nearly Infallible Version".


Lol! I never heard that one. The NIV certainly met with a lot of resistance in the early days. A lot of accusations were made against it.



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:39 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: olaru12
Obviously the joke (which was not mine) needed to account for the "N".
Anyway, 99% can be called "nearly".



"nearly" divinely inspired.....




posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 10:42 AM
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posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 11:16 AM
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Jesus was not a social warrior in the sense that he was there to upend the political status quo.

Jesus was a spiritual warrior. His job was to reform the worship God had established. He did this by teaching in parable which used the context of everyday life at the time, and yes, everyday life at the time had slavery. It was part and parcel of the Roman Empire. The only way to teach openly against slavery would have been to teach against the social fabric of the Roman Empire.

Jesus's message was deeper.

When one follows it through to its logical conclusion, it should lead you to the conclusion that slavery is wrong. In fact, in later Western Civilization it did start to lead increasing numbers of people to that very conclusion. The abolitionist movements in Europe and the US were as much religious as social movements.



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 03:28 PM
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Jesus was talking about karma. The master is God, his will is loving others and doing what is right, someone who does what is wrong consciously will be punished more harshly than someone who does something wrong unconsciously.

The bible shouldn't be read literally, that brings up all sorts of problems. That's why there are so many different denominations of Christianity, because they all try to read the bible literally.
edit on 11/15/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)




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