Desperate Times - Desperate Measures

I've heard some idiotic and hateful crap in my life..

This one is among the worst.

We can't let tragedy and evil change who we are for the worst. If the day ever did come where the struggle between radical Islam and the west was over, the tools we used to fight them will be turned inward.

What you're proposing is to turn them inward at the beginning. People like you are frightening.

a reply to: interupt42

Thats the wrong question.

If I meant it in the sense in which you seem to have interpreted it, then yes, it would be wrong. My point was that you cannot wage war against ideologies.

A better question is how do we coexist civilly with numerous ideologies. The answer is through acceptance and individual rights to believe what they want as long as they do not harm others.

Some things are unacceptable. Also, unless you've been under a rock until just now, you may have noticed that these scum ARE harming others and clamoring for society to change to meet their whim.

Not all Muslims are terrorist nor the majority of them are terrorist , to label all as terrorist is ignorant at best and a dangerous step towards more chaos in the world.

I was careful not to say all Muslims are terrorists. Though, I wouldn't be so surprised if all terrorists are Muslims.

IMO the ME has become like a Military convention for leading nations to sell , test and demonstrate their latest toys.

We need a different approach in the ME.

Totally agree with you here.

Instead of the world helping them bomb the Sh1t out of each other , perhaps we should be helping them get better integrated with one another by offering defensive safety zones with education offerings, healthcare and basic necessities based on their coop efforts to work together in peace.

Now you've lost me again. You mean I should spend my hard earned tax dollars helping some random person in a desert halfway around the globe when my own country suffers from a serious affliction of homelessness and other problems? Not to be a dick, but fk that. Here's what we do regarding the Middle East. We stop blowing Israeli d#ck and tell them to do what they want and deal with the consequences themselves. Furthermore, perhaps we gently remind the Israelis that what they are doing to the Palestinians is rather similar to what the Nazis did to the Jews. Furthermore, we need to just gtfo of the Middle East bar none. I'm in favor of having trade with Middle Eastern nations. Just we won't be allowing anyone from the ME to visit the West.

Muslims aren't a problem in just the West. They're a problem in SE Asia as well. The difference is that while in the UK, Sweden, etc., people try to give them what they want...in places like Thailand and the Philippines, the military goes to take care of business. Mission accomplished? Of course not. Passively letting a take over occur? You bet not.

To much damage has been done on all sides, but more head on violence and isolation is not going to fix it.

When you isolate groups then it becomes a Us versus them ideology.

It is Us vs. Them. Don't complicate something quite simple.

originally posted by: projectvxn
I've heard some idiotic and hateful crap in my life..

This one is among the worst.

We can't let tragedy and evil change who we are for the worst. If the day ever did come where the struggle between radical Islam and the west was over, the tools we used to fight them will be turned inward.

What you're proposing is to turn them inward at the beginning. People like you are frightening.

Feel free to live in a Muslim nation under Sharia law. I'd venture a guess that most here - even those trying to troll me - wouldn't want that. Hateful? No, I don't hate Muslims - I dislike terrorism and am not afraid to say what needs to be said. Keep your blinders on and pretend there's no problem with the Muslims, though.

a reply to: masqua

What are the roots of radicalization?

Why so afraid to inconvenience some people? I'm not advocating killing people (well - expect for convicted terrorists).

a reply to: scorpio84

I've spent 1/4 of my military career in combat in the middle east.

I've seen the real victims of Sharia, the real victims of Islamic terrorism. I've dealt with the consequences of their terrorism. I've been shot at and shot back.

I've also accepted the fact that the majority of conservatives muslims are not against the ideologies that create terrorists. Islamic Conservatives make up the VAST MAJORITY of Muslims in the middle east. I am not blind to it.

But turning our nations into a prison in order to fight them is just plain stupid. I'm all for expanding the militaries of the western world. I'm all about killing as many of these terrorist f'ers as possible. But I am not willing to condemn peaceful muslims. I am not willing to persecute muslims. I am not willing to forego the rule of law and the basic tenets of Constitutional protections.

a reply to: scorpio84

The roots of radicalization are the teachings of leaders promoting violence in any form, be they for religious or political reasons.

Those that wish to incite mobs are the very ones that require silencing.

But, I'm sure it would be politically incorrect to do so because 'free speech' and 'words don't matter'.

a reply to: projectvxn

I'm completely willing to inconvenience a few people in order to finally stop the endless bloodshed. If a Muslim doesn't like being tracked, too bad.

I realize there are a few kinks in my plan that would need to be worked out - but fact of the matter is, something needs to be done. I disagree that we're going to solve the problem with more guns and bombs.

originally posted by: scorpio84
a reply to: masqua

What are the roots of radicalization?

Why so afraid to inconvenience some people? I'm not advocating killing people (well - expect for convicted terrorists).

Forced deportation is "inconvenient?" Forced government surveillance for nothing other than you MIGHT do something is "inconvenient!"

I wasn't aware I had bought a ticket to a theater of the absurd this morning.

You're just as radicalized as those you profess your hatred of. And far, far more radicalized than the majority of those you so obviously hate. Except, in your mind, it's different because Muslim.

a reply to: scorpio84


I really effing hate the term "Something must be done". Because you can't come up with anything else. What is really being said is "Do anything to keep me safe because I'm scared #less"

You're a coward.

a reply to: scorpio84

"Inconvenience a few". You mean you're perfectly willing to live in Nazi Germany because of a few.

So who's next? Gun owners? People accused of domestic violence? Why stop with Muslims?

There's a huge difference between fighting terrorism and what you're suggesting.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Yes, it is inconvenient. You don't think being spied on or being asked to leave a country you planned on settling in is inconvenient?

Me, radical? No - but I'll throw you a bone and say I am an extremist in my beliefs.

Here's the difference between my radicalism and Islamic radicalism.

I won't try to change your culture and then set off bombs when you don't obey.

a reply to: scorpio84

No, you'll just force others to live how you think they should and forcibly remove anyone that you think doesn't fit. You say you won't set bombs off, but what's your solution of they won't leave?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: scorpio84

"Inconvenience a few". You mean you're perfectly willing to live in Nazi Germany because of a few.

So who's next? Gun owners? People accused of domestic violence? Why stop with Muslims?

There's a huge difference between fighting terrorism and what you're suggesting.

Pretty sure my plan is not the same as Nazism. Of course, calling anything you don't like "Nazi" is the fad. Just another version of the good ole "you're an anti semite!" argument. Slippery slope argument? I'm fairly sure I've limited it to Muslims. I suppose if other groups start engaging in global terrorism, we can go after them as well.

What is "fighting terrorism" to you? That wouldn't be air strikes within another nation while supplying various factions with arms, would it?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: scorpio84

No, you'll just force others to live how you think they should and forcibly remove anyone that you think doesn't fit. You say you won't set bombs off, but what's your solution of they won't leave?

Incorrect - everyone can live as they wish. Of course, if "as they wish" includes being a terrorist, then there would be consequences. What do you mean "if they won't leave?" It's not like my plan is to ask them politely to pack up and go.

a reply to: scorpio84

And how is it different? Just because you label Muslims terrorists and the Germans didn't label Jews terrorists?

Those other groups could be labeled terrorists too. They cause fear, they kill people, etc. They fit your definition of terrorist, so why wouldn't you want to stop them too? It has nothing to do with it being a fad. You're using the exact same arguments that were used then. Muslims are terrorists so there's nothing wrong with forcing them out of the country or making them live in specific areas where you can monitor them.

If you can't see that, you're blind.

So you can't fight terror with bombs, but you can fight it by forcing people to give up their land and homes and live where you want them to. The way to fight it has been given many times in this thread, and it's not by tracking them, or killing them, or forcing them to move out of a country.

a reply to: scorpio84

So if they won't leave you'll make them. And you REALLY don't see how this is EXACTLY like Nazi Germany. Wow.

a reply to: scorpio84

Maybe its just difficult for me to understand. I'm not a coward. I come from the mentality of a warrior. I am not easily frightened nor am I reactionary.

I wonder if you could enlighten me on what it's like to be so afraid that you'd live in a nation wide prison?

a reply to: scorpio84

Way to play the intentionally ignorant card.

You know EXACTLY what I meant with my "inconvenient" questions, so trying to spin that as you being "understanding" isn't going to work.

There is absolutely zero difference between your radicalism and "theirs." You both want to completely change the society you choose to live in to suit YOU. You both choose to blindly hate an entire group of people for no reason other than they're different than you.

You're a self admitted extremist. That begs the question as to how can I know you won't blow something up to get your way? You're an extremist. That's what extremists do. Guess we better keep you under surveillance now.

a reply to: Zaphod58

And how is it different? Just because you label Muslims terrorists and the Germans didn't label Jews terrorists?

How many times do I need to repeat myself? For (I hope the LAST TIME), I do not think Muslims are terrorists. Just that terrorists are Muslims. Not always throughout history, but right now. I'm not concerned with the Crusades or other historical things. Even the IRA is, as far as I'm aware, history. Again with the Nazi comparison.

Those other groups could be labeled terrorists too. They cause fear, they kill people, etc. They fit your definition of terrorist, so why wouldn't you want to stop them too? It has nothing to do with it being a fad. You're using the exact same arguments that were used then. Muslims are terrorists so there's nothing wrong with forcing them out of the country or making them live in specific areas where you can monitor them.

Didn't you just say the Jews were not labeled as terrorists? Kind of wishy-washy, aren't you? If you see something wrong with preserving one's culture and doing one's best to prevent future attacks, then we can agree to disagree on worldview.

If you can't see that, you're blind.

I'm not blind - I just don't heed the liberal crapola.

So you can't fight terror with bombs, but you can fight it by forcing people to give up their land and homes and live where you want them to. The way to fight it has been given many times in this thread, and it's not by tracking them, or killing them, or forcing them to move out of a country.

Did I say relocate citizens? Show me where I've mentioned relocating citizens. The way to fight...you mean understanding the root causes and helping the Middle East with education and all that other libtard drivel? Look, you go ahead and work on understanding terrorists. I'm more concerned with figuring out how to defeat them. But I'll give you a clue into how people get radicalized:

a need to belong
being accepted
defending the group that accepted them

So if they won't leave you'll make them. And you REALLY don't see how this is EXACTLY like Nazi Germany. Wow.

Nope, I really don't see it. That could be because I'm actually not ignorant about history and know for a fact that what I proposed in the OP and what happened during Nazi Germany are two very different things. Then again, gas chambers would be an effective way to prevent future radicalization.

I digress.

I'm sure we agree we want an end to global terrorism. We just disagree how to do it. Can you imagine if instead of fighting Nazism we just spent our time trying to understand why anyone would follow such an ideology?