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Russia has only been involved for a little over a month and they have real results ....but when you have the west looking out for their intrests then you get stuff like this ..
Consider:
In 2012 - Hollande admits arming Syrian rebels in breach of embargo - book
The French president has admitted delivering weapons to the Syrian rebels during a period of EU embargo, a new book about to be published in France reveals.
The deliveries took place in 2012, before the embargo was canceled in May 2013, according to François Hollande's last year interview with journalist and writer Xavier Panon. "We began when we were certain they would end up in the right hands. For the lethal weapons it was our services who delivered them," Hollande told the writer, ...
Okt 2012 - Rebel Arms Flow Is Said to Benefit Jihadists in Syria
WASHINGTON — Most of the arms shipped at the behest of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to supply Syrian rebel groups fighting the government of Bashar al-Assad are going to hard-line Islamic jihadists, and not the more secular opposition groups that the West wants to bolster, according to American officials and Middle Eastern diplomats.
Dec 2012 - France funding Syrian rebels in new push to oust Assad
France has emerged as the most prominent backer of Syria's armed opposition and is now directly funding rebel groups around Aleppo as part of a new push to oust the embattled Assad regime.
Large sums of cash have been delivered by French government proxies across the Turkish border to rebel commanders in the past month, diplomatic sources have confirmed. The money has been used to buy weapons inside Syria and to fund armed operations against loyalist forces.
Aug 2014 - France delivered arms to Syrian rebels, Hollande confirms
President Francois Hollande said on Thursday that France had delivered weapons to rebels battling the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad “a few months ago.”
Nov 2015
Murad Gazdiev @MuradoRT
French APILAS rocket launcher supplied to #syria rebels fall into hands of #ISIS. Pics from #Deraa, Southern #Syria
12:09 PM - 6 Nov 2015
www.informationclearinghouse.info... I think JT pulling out and maybe re-thinking the whole thing is the best thing to do aside from helping the refugees but in a way that they can choose to return . ..this is not something that can be done quickly according to the previous Govt .so time will tell .
Jun 2014 - 'Thank God for the Saudis': ISIS, Iraq, and the Lessons of Blowback
[T]wo of the most successful factions fighting Assad’s forces are Islamist extremist groups: Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), the latter of which is now amassing territory in Iraq and threatening to further destabilize the entire region. And that success is in part due to the support they have received from two Persian Gulf countries: Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
Qatar’s military and economic largesse has made its way to Jabhat al-Nusra, to the point that a senior Qatari official told me he can identify al-Nusra commanders by the blocks they control in various Syrian cities. But ISIS is another matter. As one senior Qatari official stated, “ISIS has been a Saudi project.”
France benefited from its support for the U.S.-Wahhabi regime change project in Syria and Iraq by getting huge orders for military equipment from the medieval Wahhabi regimes:
Apr 2015 - France and Qatar seal $7 billion Rafale fighter jet deal
Qatar has agreed to buy 24 Dassault Aviation-built Rafale fighter jets in a 6.3-billion-euro (4.55 billion pounds) deal, the French government said on Thursday, as the Gulf Arab state looks to boost its military firepower in an increasingly unstable region.
June 2015 - Saudi Arabia and France ink $12bln deal
Saudi Arabia and France agreed Wednesday to sign $12 billion of deals, Saudi Foreign Minister Adel Al-Jubair said during a landmark visit by Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to Paris.
Even after it became obvious for everyone that the regime change project in Syria has led to an expansion of terrorism Hollande was still demanding the end of the Syrian state.
Sept 2015 - François Hollande of France Says Assad Must Go
President François Hollande of France told the United Nations General Assembly on Monday that his country would “shoulder its responsibilities” in global efforts to end the fighting in Syria, but that the conflict could be resolved only if President Bashar al-Assad was removed from power.
Can Hollande now change his tune?
originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: nightbringr
I agree with all of what you say and there are forces fighting ISIL as we speak. Iran, of all countries, is in it up to their necks. Where are the Saudi's? Where is the Iraqi Army? There's about 5 million soldiers in the ME, but few seem to be fighting ISIS.
Why is that?
We created this problem by taking out the nasty dictators we put in there 'to keep things stable' and, after WWI carved up the ME to suit our thirst for oil.
It was the Brits who split up the Ottoman Empire, not the 'west'.
That's why.
The Shia/Sunni split is behind the war and Saddam's disenfranchised generals are now heading up ISIS. Sometimes I think it would be best to just let them fight it out and deal with the victors.
Agreed
Throwing our soldiers into that mess is going to be about as productive as the Afghanistan conflict. I know you're not saying ground troops, but I wonder if that isn't what you're hoping for. A few F18's are not going to turn the tide because it will take boots on the ground to do that. Are you willing to send our men into Syria, Libya and Iraq for some fun firefights?
I dunno if that ME oil is worth the effort.
originally posted by: nightbringr
I'm not sure this is the right forum, perhaps Political Madness might be a better fit, but here goes.
After the recent massacre in Paris, how do you Canadians who voted for and support Trudeau feel about his refusal to stand up to ISIS?
I personally feel Trudeau will be to us Canadians what Obama is to the USA. All talk, charisma, and no substance. And the refusal to confront blatant evil.
We all know he is pulling out of the bombing campaign against ISIS. Do people actually think this is wise? He is fast tracking 25,000 Syrians into Canada, with those under 18 years of age having almost no background check done against them.
What, if anything would it take for this man to stand up to tyranny and oppression? Is Trudeau our Neville Chamberlain? What say you, ATS?
After the recent massacre in Paris, how do you Canadians who voted for and support Trudeau feel about his refusal to stand up to ISIS?
originally posted by: SonoftheSun
a reply to: nightbringr
After the recent massacre in Paris, how do you Canadians who voted for and support Trudeau feel about his refusal to stand up to ISIS?
I don't see it as he's refusing to stand up to ISIS. What is planned is to reallocate the budget for it differently. Our air strikes only represent 2% of the total air strikes going on as U.S. is doing 95% of them and Russia is now adding to those numbers. So our effort there is meaningless or just about.
Our money will be better spent on helping in humanitarian ways, medical ways and special forces training. So we let the bigger armies do what they do best with the huge arsenal they have.
We are not turning our backs on ISIS, far from it, we are helping in a way that makes more sense with the limitations we have. Makes sense to me : )
originally posted by: nightbringr
I still feel there is room for more to be done though.
I agree with helping bomb them where we can. If we are only contributing to 2%, so be it. If one of those bombs can take out a bomb making factory, potentially dozens of not hundreds of lives could be saved.
Why is this not an option along with humanitarian aid?
originally posted by: nightbringr
a reply to: superman2012
What I'm getting from your post is that is an American made problem, so let them deal with it.
So, you would let the innocents suffer the bombs and bullets simply because 'it's not our problem'?
Does your heart not go out to those crucified, burned alive, thrown off buildings to their death and more? How people can watch this go down and not want to confront it is beyond me. No matter who 'started it'.