Open question to Trudeau supporters

I'm not sure this is the right forum, perhaps Political Madness might be a better fit, but here goes.

After the recent massacre in Paris, how do you Canadians who voted for and support Trudeau feel about his refusal to stand up to ISIS?

I personally feel Trudeau will be to us Canadians what Obama is to the USA. All talk, charisma, and no substance. And the refusal to confront blatant evil.

We all know he is pulling out of the bombing campaign against ISIS. Do people actually think this is wise? He is fast tracking 25,000 Syrians into Canada, with those under 18 years of age having almost no background check done against them.

What, if anything would it take for this man to stand up to tyranny and oppression? Is Trudeau our Neville Chamberlain? What say you, ATS?

a reply to: nightbringr

Canada doesn't need to worry about self-defense. They have the U.S. to do it for them.

I'm not Canadian (but grew up there) and as a neighbor to the south, it's alarming that 25,000 refugees are coming into North America. Sure hope we don't have to build fences along the northern border as well as the south.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: nightbringr

Canada doesn't need to worry about self-defense. They have the U.S. to do it for them.

That really doesnt have anything to do with my thread. Hopefully the mods will remove it. And maybe my upcoming retort.

We didnt need you in the war of 1812 when we kicked your yankee butts back across the border!

Ps. See? Now you've brought me down to your level. Soon to be removed for thread drift im sure.

a reply to: nightbringr

Actually it IS relevant to your thread. You don't have to confront anyone because you remain effectively neutral as do your leaders because we do all the dirty work for both you and the world. Believe me I am NOT complementing the U.S. We are used as the bully by the elites of the world while you can sit up North and play holier than thou.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: nightbringr

Actually it IS relevant to your thread. You don't have to confront anyone because you remain effectively neutral as do your leaders because we do all the dirty work for both you and the world. Believe me I am NOT complementing the U.S. We are used as the bully by the elites of the world while you can sit up North and play holier than thou.

Huh. When Obama was waffling on confronting Putin for his transgressions in the Ukraine, Harper came right out and called a spade a spade at the UN.

www.theglobeandmail.com...

Who is holier than thou there?

originally posted by: nightbringr
We all know he is pulling out of the bombing campaign against ISIS. Do people actually think this is wise? He is fast tracking 25,000 Syrians into Canada, with those under 18 years of age having almost no background check done against them.

What, if anything would it take for this man to stand up to tyranny and oppression? Is Trudeau our Neville Chamberlain? What say you, ATS?

My thoughts as a Canadian:

If money being used to bomb is redirected into humanitarian efforts, maybe it'll slow the tide of people escaping those war zones and refugee camps in the area.

In case you haven't noticed, the West has been bombing the ME for a decade. Do you really think a few F18's are having a major impact?

originally posted by: masqua

originally posted by: nightbringr
We all know he is pulling out of the bombing campaign against ISIS. Do people actually think this is wise? He is fast tracking 25,000 Syrians into Canada, with those under 18 years of age having almost no background check done against them.

What, if anything would it take for this man to stand up to tyranny and oppression? Is Trudeau our Neville Chamberlain? What say you, ATS?

My thoughts as a Canadian:

If money being used to bomb is redirected into humanitarian efforts, maybe it'll slow the tide of people escaping those war zones and refugee camps in the area.

In case you haven't noticed, the West has been bombing the ME for a decade. Do you really think a few F18's are having a major impact?

Not much, no. But, as Canadians, we can only contribute about 1/10th of what a country like say, the USA can, as our economy is roughly one tenth of theirs.

And yes, im not heartless, i agree we should help in any humanitarian way we can. But should it stop us from trying our best to remove the root problem? Not at all. We can do everything and anything to help those suffering, but if the root of the problem is not stopped (ISIS), we will simply spend more and more and more helping those unfortunates fleeing. Do you think humanitarian aid alone will stop this problem?

originally posted by: nightbringr
Do you think humanitarian aid alone will stop this problem?

No, I don't think humanitarian aid alone will stop the slaughter from ISIS. Why I agree with using our tax dollars with aid instead of bombs is because Canada is extremely capable of supplying food, water and assorted methods to ease the problems in refugee camps.

If they were not such hellholes, maybe people wouldn't be risking their lives crossing the sea.

I just think our money is better spent this way than dropping more bombs. There are others well-enough equipped to do that.

a reply to: nightbringr

But, as Canadians, we can only contribute about 1/10th of what a country like say, the USA can, as our economy is roughly one tenth of theirs.

Thank you for making my original point.

Look, I am against war. I wish we could be Canada and just use our 'budget' for healthcare and programs to help people instead of hurting people. You should be proud of your lack of involvement in killing people.

originally posted by: masqua

originally posted by: nightbringr
Do you think humanitarian aid alone will stop this problem?

No, I don't think humanitarian aid alone will stop the slaughter from ISIS. Why I agree with using our tax dollars with aid instead of bombs is because Canada is extremely capable of supplying food, water and assorted methods to ease the problems in refugee camps.

If they were not such hellholes, maybe people wouldn't be risking their lives crossing the sea.

I just think our money is better spent this way than dropping more bombs. There are others well-enough equipped to do that.

I think both should be done.

We should help those in desperate need, and confront those that are causing the problem. Its an option. Never understood why it has to be one or the other. They arent mutually exclusive.

a reply to: nightbringr

All well and good. We're both entitled to our opinions. Me? I'd prefer doing what we've been best at over the years... peacekeepers.

The angry war drum thumping rhetoric over the past decade has been ridiculous because it's an empty threat. Hope to be a country that tries to solve problems rather than make them.

originally posted by: masqua
a reply to: nightbringr

All well and good. We're both entitled to our opinions. Me? I'd prefer doing what we've been best at over the years... peacekeepers.

The angry war drum thumping rhetoric over the past decade has been ridiculous because it's an empty threat. Hope to be a country that tries to solve problems rather than make them.

If you will remember, we have done MUCH more than peacekeeping in the past.

We have made a real difference in WW1 and WW2. Yes, we have moved to a more peacekeeping stance since then, but i would propose that in this very real world of today, we might want to reconsider our stance. I see Russia becoming more aggressive, China the same in the waters bellow it. Say what you will about the futility of ISIS advancing, but they are doing plenty to kill and displace those in the Middle East and WE Asia.

Id love, so very much love to say its better to let those keep on doing what they are doing as we sit back and help those casualties that could have been prevented if we confronted evil as it rears its head, but im thinking its better to stop those with evil intentions rather than deal with the consequences.

a reply to: nightbringr

The real thing about Canada's part of the bombing over there was that Canada was under US command . Maybe JT wants to re-group and go back in after the G20 meetings and join the Russian effort . The western team has been loosing the game badly and you never fire the players but usually change the coach . Time for a new coach to win this war .

I do think that the west is responding to the refugees in a knee jerk way because it would be better to stabilize Syria and help the refugees to return and re-build . Just what JT ends up doing in the end is hard to say . I am just happy Harper is no longer there . We didn't need a Iron Dome or a turkey like the F35 .... I sure hope things ,especially attitude will be different from our former King Harper ....

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: nightbringr

The real thing about Canada's part of the bombing over there was that Canada was under US command . Maybe JT wants to re-group and go back in after the G20 meetings and join the Russian effort . The western team has been loosing the game badly and you never fire the players but usually change the coach . Time for a new coach to win this war .

I do think that the west is responding to the refugees in a knee jerk way because it would be better to stabilize Syria and help the refugees to return and re-build . Just what JT ends up doing in the end is hard to say . I am just happy Harper is no longer there . We didn't need a Iron Dome or a turkey like the F35 .... I sure hope things ,especially attitude will be different from our former King Harper ....

Thats actually not true at all, its all a matter of your propaganda perspective.

The USA have gone in and hit ISIS, as well as other militant targets not related to ISIS that suit their immediate needs.

Russia have gone in and hit ISIS, as well is other militant targets not related to ISIS that suit their immediate needs.

So, USA hits ISIS and kurdish targets that Turkey wants to please them and allow them to use their airfields.

So, Russia hits ISIS and Chechen enemies who disrupt business as usual in Russia.

Its all politics. If you want to start listing off all the things the West do to keep this going, ill keep listing things the East do as well.

I see you wish to make things stable in Syria. I do as well. What is it you propose it is we do to do that?

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
I'm not Canadian (but grew up there) and as a neighbor to the south, it's alarming that 25,000 refugees are coming into North America. Sure hope we don't have to build fences along the northern border as well as the south.

We aren't going to be taking in a giant ship of refugees all at once in Halifax or something. It's a screening process that might take up to 10 years if need be. But they have said they want to accept at least 25,000 in five years. But, we actually have a tight screening process in place, after all Canada is a nation built on immigrants and such, not just anyone can storm in here and start working and demanding things, we have experience in this and we are very cautious to it as well.

originally posted by: nightbringr
If you will remember, we have done MUCH more than peacekeeping in the past.

Oh, I remember alright. I'm steeped in Canadian history because I love this country dearly. Plus I did my time in the Canadian Army where such things are discussed at length.

The events surrounding WWI and WWII were for our allegiance to the British Royals. After all, we just had Remembrance day. Afghanistan, however, was an entirely different war; as was Iraq. The Highway of Heroes is a river of sorrow in me for the loss and wounding of so many good Canadians.

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti
I'm not Canadian (but grew up there) and as a neighbor to the south, it's alarming that 25,000 refugees are coming into North America. Sure hope we don't have to build fences along the northern border as well as the south.

We aren't going to be taking in a giant ship of refugees all at once in Halifax or something. It's a screening process that might take up to 10 years if need be. But they have said they want to accept at least 25,000 in five years. But, we actually have a tight screening process in place, after all Canada is a nation built on immigrants and such, not just anyone can storm in here and start working and demanding things, we have experience in this and we are very cautious to it as well.

Im sorry? They promised to take them in immediately.

globalnews.ca...

originally posted by: masqua

originally posted by: nightbringr
If you will remember, we have done MUCH more than peacekeeping in the past.

Oh, I remember alright. I'm steeped in Canadian history because I love this country dearly. Plus I did my time in the Canadian Army where such things are discussed at length.

The events surrounding WWI and WWII were for our allegiance to the British Royals. After all, we just had Remembrance day. Afghanistan, however, was an entirely different war; as was Iraq. The Highway of Heroes is a river of sorrow in me for the loss and wounding of so many good Canadians.

Then i respect you as i respect my grandfather who fought as well.

But i question you reluctance to confront the evil we face today. I dont fight for a country, nor a crown, nor what im told to. I fight for what i know in my heart is right. And i know crucifying innocent is wrong. I know making children to fight is wrong. I know that convincing people through force to strap bombs to their chest to kill a marketplace of innocents is wrong.

delete, multipost