Third Temple / Ark of the Covenant

I surmised correctly, therefore I put no words in your mouth. Regards Josephus’ works then, you readily submit that Christians tampered with his words, and therefore you would rather cast a blind eye to all such works. Yet, you have not explained what purpose he would have to fabricate the information on the temple. So another question comes your way:

I didn't say the Christians did or didn't. Because the works have been tampered with, credibility must be established. Here is a quote from the Jewish Encyclopedia about The Works of Josephus which actually quotes Josephus quite a bit...Josephus gives as his reason for writing this history the contradictory reports circulated either to flatter the Romans or to disparage the Jews (ib. § 1). He himself pretends not to have flattered the Romans, though he is distinctly partial to them. So what is he saying here? That he fudges. Then his works have been fudged to force things that aren't there. So again, I see a credibility issue.

1)is it not also true that the authoritative information on all aspect of the temple during the 1st century ACE, comes to us from Josephus?

The particular information that we were discussing that I was dismissing would be considered hearsay in a court of law. He was not there during either Antiochus nor Pompey.

Therefore

But I said that Josephus is the ONLY one to mention the walls being leveled.

this account of same cannot be dismissed. Correct?

Considering that Herod shows that the Temple remains by way of Josephus, I suppose it can be dismissed. Also considering that he himself was not there, sure it can. Now in one part of Antiquities, Josephus describes Antiochus plucking the walls. But in another part talking about Herod specifically, he says:

1. AND now Herod, in the eighteenth year of his reign, and after the acts already mentioned, undertook a very great work, that is, to build of himself the temple of God, ... but as he knew the multitude were not ready nor willing to assist him in so vast a design, he thought to prepare them first by making a speech to them, ... Our fathers, indeed, when they were returned from Babylon, built this temple to God Almighty,

2. And this was the speech which Herod made to them; but still this speech aftrighted many of the people, as being unexpected by them; and because it seemed incredible, it did not encourage them, but put a damp upon them, for they were afraid that he would pull down the whole edifice, and not be able to bring his intentions to perfection for its rebuilding; and this danger appeared to them to be very great, and the vastness of the undertaking to be such as could hardly be accomplished. But while they were in this disposition, the king encouraged them, and told them he would not pull down their temple till all things were gotten ready for building it up entirely again. And as he promised them this beforehand, so he did not break his word with them, but got ready a thousand waggons, that were to bring stones for the building, and chose out ten thousand of the most skillful workmen, and bought a thousand sacerdotal garments for as many of the priests, and had some of them taught the arts of stone-cutters, and others of carpenters, and then began to build; but this not till every thing was well prepared for the work.

So you said it was "destroyed again by Pompey: and "rebuilt by Herod the Great." Doesn't the above show that it was still standing as I originally said? You also said, "during the Macabbeen revolt, and by Antiochus’ direction, the temple walls were levelled." That too is a contradiction. So in which part is Josephus not telling the truth? Does he have credibility at all? He seems to be saying two different things.

They not only doctored same, they rewrote the history of their Egyptian heritage into a new set of myths, and the Torah is nothing but the retelling of the same Egyptian myths over and over.

Do you think that we are not taught that there are many stories that are not unique to us? Is this like some huge shocker? I'm a Jew and I know about it. I had to learn it somewhere. Does it change anything for me? Not at all. My faith is bound to people and events. It's bound by me and my personal relationship to G-d.

Oh? And the two books were removed because?

Well you know, I wasn't around in 92 CE so I can only go based on what I have learned. Those two books along with several others didn't meet the requirements. It had to be written in Hebrew in Palestine before 400 BCE and conform to the Torah.

I understand your position, choose what suits your purpose and discard what does not. If Ezekiel or for that matter any book is questionable in any part, then it should all be tossed. For if the author was deceitful in one area, he was likely deceitful in others.

I didn't question his book. I rejected your interpretation of his book.

I have provided you with a timeline, you have provided nothing but denial. Show me exactly to what his prophecy referred and substantiate your denial.

The only thing I'm denying is your interpretation. Since when is there a timeline in prophecy?

Mention of the Ark of the Testimony ceased before the looting of the temple by Neuchadnezzar, in fact, it ceased to be spoken about during Hezekiah’s reign. Consequently, Zerubbabel’s temple also lacked the ark, did it not?

Also? Solomon's had the ark. Zerubbabel's never did like I said.

I asked you to provide the requirement for three exiles before the third temple is rebuilt. A depiction as to which exiles happened when does not answer the question.

Never did I say that they are required. We are IN exile and will RETURN during the time of the moshiach. However, I did say the following:

*The second temple also coincided with the second exile.

*Maybe because the temple periods have to do with periods of exile.

*And the events do have to do with the temples as they are a part of the exiles.

*Each temple building had to do with an exile. There are three, hence there will be three temples. It does not matter how many times a temple gets built according to prophecy, if there is no exile, it doesn't matter. So let's take Herod's into consideration and say that Josephus is the most credible witness to ever live. There was no exile, therefore his temple has no bearing on the Jewish people. Onias...same thing. Zerubbabel's temple was still standing and the Jews were not in exile. So the temple building and exiles go hand in hand with prophecy.

*But we as Jews are still in exile (hence the ingathering of Jews when the moshaich arrives) and there has not been that ingathering yet and there is no moshaich to lay the cornerstone.

*The prophecy did come during the Babylonian exile but was purposely not built to specifications as they knew the temple would be destroyed.

*Until that time, we Jews remain in exile.

*Ok here's a breakdown. Exodus -> Solomon's Temple -> Babylonian Exile -> Zerubbabel's Temple -> Roman Exile -> Third Temple
Solomon's Temple came AFTER the exodus. Zerubbabel's Temple came AFTER the Babylonian exile. We are STILL in the Roman exile. The third temple is a part of the prophecies of the moshiach and will be built AFTER the Jews have returned to Israel. So again, we are still in exile and will be until the moshiach has come and THEN the temple will be built. Putting this into perspective with "Herod's Temple" or "Onias Temple" there was NO exile and there was NO moshiach.

Further, you cannot be in Roman exile, since the Jews never acquired the exact piece of real estate promised to Abraham, in which case by technicality they are still in the first exile.

Now this makes no sense. I Kings 4.21 And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the River to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt. These countries brought tribute and were Solomon's subjects all his life.

The request to provide information relative to Ezekiel’s prophecy or stating the temple will be destroyed twice before its final rebuild has not been provided. Further, given that you state;

We are STILL in the Roman exile.

this next does not make sense;

Putting this into perspective with "Herod's Temple" or "Onias Temple" there was NO exile..

since, Israel was under Roman siege at the time of Herod.

Ok let me try to word this so that you can follow along. The Jewish nation began after the Exodus. Solomon's temple was built to rest the Ark. It was destroyed. The Babylonians sent the Jews into exile. They returned during Cyrus and rebuilt the Temple. In 70, the Romans came into play, destroyed the Temple and the Jews are in exile once again. We have not been back. We will not go back until the "time." By time, I mean messianic time. We will be in Israel to decide that it is truly the one. The messiah will lay the cornerstone for the Temple. Do you see the progression? I could draw a picture but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't show up here. Your comment about Israel being under Roman siege makes no difference. You fill in the blank then since you don't like Roman Exile. It is what it is. We are still in exile.

You are an adult debating on a message board, as am I, therefore, and speaking from my perspective only, while it is often I find my opponent is of a tender age, it serves no purpose to be engaging them in debate if they cannot even understand grade 10 language. What good does it do to be providing definitions of your words, just so they might begin to understand the meaning of a sentence?

It was to put into context the difference between new construction and renovation.

Now I wish to draw you back to context and note some outstanding requests:

Did I miss #1? And some have already been answered but you chose not to accept it as an answer I suppose.

2) The mention of a prophesied 3rd temple.

Per my previous post....*Ezekiel is specifically the third.

Specifically 40-48. Also Isaiah 33.20. "...and I will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My temple also shall be with them. Yes, I will be their G-d and they shall be My people. And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. -- Ezekiel 37:26-28

3) Why would you expect the Tanakh to mention Herod?

Per my previous post...*I mentioned it because of prophecy.

4) Zerubbabel’s was a new temple because of a new foundation, according to you, why then was Herod’s not?

Per many previous posts...*The rebuild by Herod is still the second temple. Herod refurbished it and even made additions to it.

*Herod made extensive repairs and also remodeled, thus he rebuilt.

*Titus ordered the destruction of the Temple, the second temple that had some new architectural elements thanks to Herod but was still religiously Zerubbabel's.

*Herod remodeled, built again the splendor of Solomon and mended.

*So let's take Herod's into consideration and say that Josephus is the most credible witness to ever live. There was no exile, therefore his temple has no bearing on the Jewish people.

*Surely in Haggai 1.8, G-d isn't talking to Herod. Go up to the hills and get timber, and rebuilt the House; then I will look on it with favor and I will be glorified -- said the L-rd. So there couldn't be any discrepancy on whose is the second, right? Also Chanukah is a festival marking the Maccabees restoring the second temple. This happened long before Herod.

*Putting this into perspective with "Herod's Temple" or "Onias Temple" there was NO exile and there was NO moshiach.

5) Your response to their being two schools of thought as to both Zeruabbabel’s and Herod’s temple being the second, and why, the other is not considered.

You said: But is it not so that there are two schools of thought on which of Zerubbabel’s and Herod’s temples is the second? Yet, the words supposedly uttered by God as shown above clearly differentiate one as the former and the other as the latter.

Previous post again....*Surely in Haggai 1.8, G-d isn't talking to Herod. Go up to the hills and get timber, and rebuilt the House; then I will look on it with favor and I will be glorified -- said the L-rd. So there couldn't be any discrepancy on whose is the second, right? Also Chanukah is a festival marking the Maccabees restoring the second temple. This happened long before Herod.

*As for two schools of thought, there are two on the third temple. One is that we are bound by the law to build the Temple. The second and most commonly accepted is that one will come from heavenly fire and appear. To reconcile both is easy. The command to build came from Exodus 15.17 which ends with...which your hands have established. Then comes the practice of hechsher mitzvah....the act that causes a mitzvah to be fulfilled. If G-d brings down the Temple from heaven then what can Jews do to help build it? It would already be built, right? Each day we pray, "May it be your will, L-rd our G-d, and G-d of our fathers, that the Holy Temple be speedily rebuilt in our days." We are showing our avut (wanting and yearning). According to Kabbalah, our prayers create a sort of spiritual channel of light by which the Temple will descend. We also show our want each year by studying the design of the Temple during three weeks and ending with Tisha B'Av which commemorates the day of the two temple destructions and shows divine judgment. In one of our midrash, this is backed up by the fact that Yezekiel says, Master of the Universe, You instructed me to teach the form and laws of the Third Temple to the Jewish people when they shall do them [build the Temple]. Are they doing them now that I should teach it to them?" And G-d answered that a person studying the design of the Holy Temple according to the Book of Ezekial, would be regarded as if he were actually building it. Until that time, we Jews remain in exile.

Relative to the rest of your posts, and considering the unanswered above as well as the issues with your argument as outlined, I give you the following analysis;

Sorry but as shown, some have been flogged.

When one is called up into heaven, one should expect that being in the firmament, EWNS directions either do not apply or cannot be discernible, yet Ezekiel, seemed to be firmly grounded by compass directions.

I don't know of any Jews who place great importance on an afterlife. We are taught that if there is one, then we have a promise that G-d will fulfill. If we sit and become worm food, so be it.

Ezekiel is the prophet upon whom Jews place all reliance for the rebuilding of the temple,

We Jews place all reliance on the Torah. That is what is a part of our services and a part of our lives. The kethuvim and nevi'im are just an added bonus.

yet, God while most willing to speak with him refuses through Ezekiel himself to speak with the elders, ch. 20;

I told you how Ezekiel was broken up. Chapter 20 is part of the oracles of judgment against Israel and Jerusalem (chapters 1-24).

Hi There..

Must disagree with you there. Ethiopia and the Ark's whereabouts were investigated. Mr Burgess back in I believe 1997.

Then from there after seeing the Knights Templar insignia on the very-close by Chapel he followed it (more than Ark) back to Scotland, at Roslyn.

Where after speaking with some very 'powerful' yet silent-named present day Templars would only say that three of the Arks were burried underneath the Roslyn Chapel.

Dallas

Originally posted by Somewhereinbetween
They not only doctored same, they rewrote the history of their Egyptian heritage into a new set of myths, and the Torah is nothing but the retelling of the same Egyptian myths over and over.

Myth or no myth, this is a valid point, Shonet. There is a definite connection.

Originally posted by Shonet1430
Do you think that we are not taught that there are many stories that are not unique to us? Is this like some huge shocker? I'm a Jew and I know about it. I had to learn it somewhere. Does it change anything for me? Not at all. My faith is bound to people and events. It's bound by me and my personal relationship to G-d.

If you know about the Egyptian connection to Israel, Shonet, why then do you close your mind to possiblities of an now Egyptian-owned homeland?
Shouldn't this change something for you? I mean, we're talking about physical territory, not ambiguous faith in G-d, right?

Originally posted by Somewhereinbetween
I understand your position, choose what suits your purpose and discard what does not. If Ezekiel or for that matter any book is questionable in any part, then it should all be tossed. For if the author was deceitful in one area, he was likely deceitful in others.

Originally posted by Shonet1430
I didn't question his book. I rejected your interpretation of his book.

Well what mountain is he talking about in ch43? Mt. Zion? Mt. Moriah? Is not it a little silly to call a mild incline a mountain?

Originally posted by Shonet1430
But we as Jews are still in exile (hence the ingathering of Jews when the moshaich arrives) and there has not been that ingathering yet and there is no moshaich to lay the cornerstone.

What cornerstone? The one mentioned in Zechariah? Could not a cornerstone lay on top of a pyramid?

Originally posted by Somewhereinbetween
Further, you cannot be in Roman exile, since the Jews never acquired the exact piece of real estate promised to Abraham, in which case by technicality they are still in the first exile.

Originally posted by Shonet1430
Now this makes no sense.

Actually, it makes a whole lotta sense.

Originally posted by Shonet1430
The messiah will lay the cornerstone for the Temple.

What about Zerrubabbel? (Zech. 4:7) And are you not merely assuming that the cornerstone goes on the Temple?


[edit on 8-6-2005 by CyrusTheShepherd]

Sounds like someone needs anti-depressants for that needy, can't be alone issue. And you should use something another word if you are going to also use it to describe what you are saying, otherwise, you end up with total nonsense. Since truth=G-d, you made one comment like The truth is truth....so does that equal The G-d is G-d?

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Would the Ark of the Covenant need to be recovered to truly complete the temple and fulfill prophesy?

They do not really need anything but the altar to get things moving.
In order to begin building the altar, they need the Ark,containing the remaining ashes of the red heifer, to be able to ritually 'cleanse' .
Banjo

Originally posted by banjo_guru
They do not really need anything but the altar to get things moving.

Ahh, music to my eyes.

Myth or no myth, this is a valid point, Shonet. There is a definite connection.

Do I deny a connection? Egypt is in the Tanakh. The connection is clear. Egyptians are a part of our laws. The connection is clear.

If you know about the Egyptian connection to Israel, Shonet, why then do you close your mind to possiblities of an now Egyptian-owned homeland?
Shouldn't this change something for you? I mean, we're talking about physical territory, not ambiguous faith in G-d, right?

Can you read about the Exodus and not know the connection? Does that change anything? No. G-d promised certain land and did not say, "Hey, I'm going to change things up for you and decide to plant you somewhere else." Israel is it. G-d told us in Isaiah that he didn't keep anything from us and that he did not speak to us from a dark place where we couldn't see him. Everything he needed for us to know, he told us. So to me, as a Jew, there are no other options.

Well what mountain is he talking about in ch43? Mt. Zion? Mt. Moriah? Is not it a little silly to call a mild incline a mountain?

Well it would be where the others were built, the land purchased by David, and shown throughout the Tanakh....Moriah. Moriah fits the description of a mountain as it only has to be about 600 meters to include two different climate zones. Moriah is 777 meters northeast of the mount and the mount is 740ish. Both give it a larger height than 600 making it have two climate zone thus rules out it being a "hill." Also, there are smaller that are also called Mount ____.

What cornerstone? The one mentioned in Zechariah? Could not a cornerstone lay on top of a pyramid?

Cornerstone...foundation....so no. The moshiach will lay the cornerstone of the Temple for the Jews to build.

Actually, it makes a whole lotta sense.

No it doesn't because I already explained.

What about Zerrubabbel? (Zech. 4:7) And are you not merely assuming that the cornerstone goes on the Temple?

I'm beginning to think that people actually don't read. What about Zerubbabel? If you read PAST verse 7 you will find your answer. The stone in Zerubbabel's hand is the plummet.

Originally posted by Shonet1430
G-d promised certain land and did not say, "Hey, I'm going to change things up for you and decide to plant you somewhere else."

Is it not pheasable that it was not G-d who changed things up, but instead was the forgetfulness of the Jewish people due to generations of exile?

Is it not also possible that the land mentioned in the Tanakh is indeed the land that we now refer to as Egypt?

Could you Jews have "forgotten your restingplace?"
Remember, if you have not place Jerusalem as your chief joy, then let the your tongue cleave to the roof of your mouth, no?

Israel is it.

That is not the debate. The question I ponder is which land is Israel.

G-d told us in Isaiah that he didn't keep anything from us and that he did not speak to us from a dark place where we couldn't see him.

Ch45:15 "You're a G-d that hides yourself" (sjc version)
Ch 19:19 "There's gonna be an altar in the midst of the land of 'Egypt'(sjcv)
Ch 28 They err in vision the priest and prophet both. They're spiritually drunk.(sjcv)
ps 18:11 "his pavilion round about him are dark waters" (sjcv)

Everything he needed for us to know, he told us. So to me, as a Jew, there are no other options.

True, but maybe you weren't listening close enough?

Well it would be where the others were built, the land purchased by David, and shown throughout the Tanakh....Moriah.

You mean that filthy piece of Palestinian property that is to become a perpetual waste? The land purchased by David is the land we now call Giza.
There is no evidence, despite what any sensationalistic archaeolgist tells you.
David's Jerusalem: Fiction or Reality?

Moriah fits the description of a mountain as it only has to be about 600 meters to include two different climate zones. Moriah is 777 meters northeast of the mount and the mount is 740ish.

hmm, then why does it say that G-d will magnify Zion as the mountain he chooses to dwell in? Why does it say that G-d's servants will take pleasure in Zion's stones? Where are Zion's stones, anyway? Why is Zion mentioned and honored ALL throughout Isaiah? Where is Moriah in Isaiah? (It aint there, Aimie) What is Zion to you? Why does he call it the perfection of beauty?
Is this? the perfection of beauty?


How 'bout this...


Could not this be the Moriahvan temple?


Why does Josephus say Zion is lower? How can this be? Unless of course Zion has been mislabeled, and sits in the lower part of Jerusalem(Giza)
In your scriptures it is magnified and it will be established forever. not Moriah. Moriah is history. There will be no future temple on Moriah.
Moriah temple burned down long ago and G-d will never rebuild it there, besides you do not even know where Moriah is located.

Is it not also convenient that there is a tributary of the "Nile" which is exactly 4,000 cubits to the east of "The Great Pyramid"?(ez. 47) Could not this "pyramid" be Mt. Zion?

Could not corner stone = head of the corner?

[edit on 8-6-2005 by CyrusTheShepherd]

Here’s a little breakdown for you concerning the temple and altar found in Ezekiel...(sjcv)

This is the law of the sanctuary, upon the top of the mountain the whole limit is most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.
And these are the measurements of the altar, which you are to build on top of my holy mountain…….

The measurements of the temple are in the previous chapters.
The temple will not be built until after the abomination, which is yet to come. When he comes, the city will be submerged in water from the breaking of the High Answan Dam. This is the flood spoken of in Dan 9 and Rev 12. So the walls(sides of Zion) and street(causeway) are elements along with the altar that will be set up before the abomination. This is all that is required for animal sacrifice. If we build the temple before the flood, it will be destroyed again. The walls and street will be built with material that is resilient to water damage, perhaps stainless steel.
The antichrist will even build his own palace right at the base of Mt. Zion on the east side, between the 2 pools(seas). Now THAT’S audacious!


Footprint


[edit on 8-6-2005 by CyrusTheShepherd]

Originally posted by Dallas

Hi There..

Must disagree with you there. Ethiopia and the Ark's whereabouts were investigated. Mr Burgess back in I believe 1997.

Then from there after seeing the Knights Templar insignia on the very-close by Chapel he followed it (more than Ark) back to Scotland, at Roslyn.

Where after speaking with some very 'powerful' yet silent-named present day Templars would only say that three of the Arks were burried underneath the Roslyn Chapel.

Dallas

interesting points brought up.

when king phillip the fair of france tried to capture/assasinate all knights templars on oct. 13, 1307 it was reported that the pope who was controlled/manipulated by king phillip the fair got word to his nephew who was a knights templar.

the popes nephew left a port in southern france with the holiest treasures the knights templar had. more than an ark ....

only a portion of the fleet of ships were reported to have gone straight to scottland.

the rest may very well have gone to america, which they knew of because of the maps they had discovered, merica being the ancient sumarian (babylon/iraq) name for the star venus, and the land that laid under the star.

which may explain how corn/maze and the aloe cacti plants found their way to be engraved on the walls of the roslin chapel when christopher columbus was merely 4.

The temple will not be built until after the abomination, which is yet to come.

There is an "abomination" sitting there now. The Maccabean revolt was thanks to an abomination.

When he comes, the city will be submerged in water from the breaking of the High Answan Dam. This is the flood spoken of in Dan 9 and Rev 12. So the walls(sides of Zion) and street(causeway) are elements along with the altar that will be set up before the abomination.

Fah, here we go again. Daniel 9 is a retelling of Jeremiah 25. Daniel prays for understanding and his interpretation comes in verses 24-27. Let's look at bits of those verses. We have an anointed leader, anointed one and a prince. Who are they? Let's see.

And you shall know and understand that from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king [shall be] seven weeks, and [in] sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times.

Hmm the word return and rebuild Jerusalem. That is Cyrus giving the word. So who is the anointed leader? The high priest Joshua.

And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will be cut off, and he will be no more, and the people of the coming monarch will destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and his end will come about by inundation, and until the end of the war, it will be cut off into desolation.

Who was killed? The anointed one. Who is the anointed one? The priest Onias III. Where is there a mention of a literal flood?

And he will strengthen a covenant for the princes for one week, and half the week he will abolish sacrifice and meal- offering, and on high, among abominations, will be the dumb one, and until destruction and extermination befall the dumb one.

Antiochus ring a bell? He ceased sacrifices and offering and then what happened? A statue of Zeus was put on the altar and Jews were forced to pray. A pig one of the most unclean animals were sacrificed on the altar.

This is all that is required for animal sacrifice.

We have 101 laws for sacrifice and offerings none of which are found in Ezekiel, Daniel, etc. They are found in the Torah and none you mentioned above.

The antichrist will even build his own palace right at the base of Mt. Zion on the east side, between the 2 pools(seas). Now THAT’S audacious!

That's fairytale.

Originally posted by Shonet1430
There is an "abomination" sitting there now. The Maccabean revolt was thanks to an abomination.

Not "the" abomination.

Fah, here we go again. Daniel 9 is a retelling of Jeremiah 25. Daniel prays for understanding and his interpretation comes in verses 24-27.

So we now have an end of sins and are experiencing everlasting righteousness. Gee, I thought it would be less painful than this.

Let's look at bits of those verses. We have an anointed leader, anointed one and a prince. Who are they? Let's see.

I could tell you but would you believe me?

Hmm the word return and rebuild Jerusalem. That is Cyrus giving the word.

Yes, Cyrus.

Who was killed? The anointed one.

Who will be killed? The anointed one.

Who is the anointed one? The priest Onias III.

Who is the anointed one? Well let's just say he has a set of horns.

Where is there a mention of a literal flood?

Where is there mention of Moriah being exalted?

Antiochus ring a bell? He ceased sacrifices and offering and then what happened? A statue of Zeus was put on the altar and Jews were forced to pray. A pig one of the most unclean animals were sacrificed on the altar.

Shadows my dear, shadows.

The antichrist will even build his own palace right at the base of Mt. Zion on the east side, between the 2 pools(seas). Now THAT’S audacious!

That's fairytale.

Someday you're prince will come, someday you're prince will come.

What feminine person is Isaiah talking about when the L-rd says sons of strangers will rebuild her walls in ch60?

Who will arise and shine? Mt Moriah? or Mt. Zion?

Is it not convenient that you have ignored my position that you do not even know where you're holy city is located? Evidence is on my side. Why do you choose to be stiffnecked about this. You say you don't want to be in the desert, but is it not true that it is prophesied that there will be streams in the desert and it shall blossom like a rose and be as the gareden of Eden?

The self-fullfilled prophesies you think were already fulfilled are I say VEHEMENTLY false fulfillments.

What is keeping you back from you're true homeland. O Jerusalem, how I would like to gather you as a mother hen gathers her chicks. Why would you refuse to hear from your G-d?

Behold, you're house, you're city, you're country is left unto you desolate, it lies in ruins to this day, you shall not see me 'til you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the L-ord.

Why did Jesus condemn the cities of Chorazin! and Bethsaida!
Why did he condemn the fig tree?

Why did he condemn that filthy, abominable "temple" by saying no stone shall be left unturned?

Why did he say he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel?

Why did Jeremiah say that you people have allowed your shepherds to cause you to go astray and go from mountain to hill and FORGRT YOUR RESTINGPLACE?

Why did Ezra admit that his people were still bondmen even when they were rebuilding the temple? Does not this admit exile?

Why did John compare the city that my L-ord was crucifed in to Sodom and Egypt?

If you can't answer these questions correctly, then I ask someone else, somewhere else. Whether you refuse or accept my doctrine, it shall be established.

The stone that you reject WILL become the head of the corner.
You watch and see.

But ye are they that forsake the L-RD, that forget my holy mountain.

Is it not pheasable that it was not G-d who changed things up, but instead was the forgetfulness of the Jewish people due to generations of exile?

How so when we had the Torah to remind us?

Is it not also possible that the land mentioned in the Tanakh is indeed the land that we now refer to as Egypt?

The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: Command the children of Israel and say to them, When you arrive in the land of Canaan, this is the land which shall fall to you as an inheritance, the land of Canaan according to its borders. Your southernmost corner shall be from the desert of Zin along Edom, and the southern border shall be from the edge of the Sea of Salt [the Dead Sea] to the east. The border then turns south of Maaleh Akrabim [elevation of Akrabim], passing toward Zin, and its ends shall be to the south of Kadesh barnea. Then it shall extend to Hazar addar and continue toward Azmon. The border then turns from Azmon to the stream of Egypt, and its ends shall be to the sea. The western border: it shall be for you the Great [Mediterranean] Sea and the border this shall be your western border. This shall be your northern border: From the Great [Mediterranean] Sea turn yourselves toward Mount Hor. From Mount Hor turn to the entrance of Hamath, and the ends of the border shall be toward Zedad. The border shall then extend to Ziphron, and its ends shall be Hazar enan; this shall be your northern border. You shall then turn yourselves toward the eastern border, from Hazar enan to Shepham. The border descends from Shepham toward Riblah, to the east of Ain. Then the border descends and hits the eastern shore of Lake Kinnereth. The border then continues down along the Jordan, and its ends is the Sea of Salt [the Dead Sea]; this shall be your Land according to its borders around. (Numbers 34:1-12).

Could you Jews have "forgotten your restingplace?"

Again, no. We have the Torah.

Remember, if you have not place Jerusalem as your chief joy, then let the your tongue cleave to the roof of your mouth, no?

Psalms don't dictate my life anymore than Shakespeare does or even MTV. They are a collection of songs and poems. However, I will help you put two and two together. You may want to try reading before(v 5), as it helps.

If I forget you, O Jerusalem, may my right hand forget [its skill].
May my tongue cling to my palate, if I do not remember you, if I do not bring up Jerusalem at the beginning of my joy.

So what exactly is the point? If both the right hand and the tongue are paralyzed, then one can't play the lyre and sing. So to answer your question, no. You shall follow the L-rd, your G-d, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him. Yes.

Ch45:15 "You're a G-d that hides yourself" (sjc version)

Notice in verse 14, "Thus said the L-rd." G-d is talking to Cyrus as G-d worked through him. Verse 19, "Not in secret did I speak, in a place of a land of darkness."

Ch 19:19 "There's gonna be an altar in the midst of the land of 'Egypt'(sjcv)

This is among one of so I don't know a bajillion things that he also told us and not from a dark place. But that altar is not for the Jewish people. This entire chapter is about what G-d does to Egypt to make them realize that he is the one and only. The purpose of the altar and pillar in verse 19 is explained in verse 20...And it shall be for a sign and for a witness.

Ch 28 They err in vision the priest and prophet both. They're spiritually drunk.(sjcv)

Again, not from a dark place did G-d speak.

ps 18:11 "his pavilion round about him are dark waters" (sjcv)

This is David's description and it actually says thick darkness under his feet, not waters. Also, this is verse 10.

True, but maybe you weren't listening close enough?

I listen everyday and listen very well.

You mean that filthy piece of Palestinian property that is to become a perpetual waste? The land purchased by David is the land we now call Giza.
There is no evidence, despite what any sensationalistic archaeolgist tells you.
David's Jerusalem: Fiction or Reality?

Is to become perpetual waste? Where did G-d say that in the Tanakh? And I've already addressed your website. If you would like me to critique your twistations, I will be glad to. I'll start with the first page.

O Israel, how long will you have forgotten where your God will reign?

No. My G-d is everywhere.

Say to yourself, "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning, let my tongue stick to the roof of my mouth."

You did the ol' pick and choose as shown above in full context. We are to cleave to G-d. That's in the Torah and the Torah is what contains our laws to abide by.

Behold, you will come from the north country back to the land you were promised. You will come from all the ends of the earth. You will remember the place of your rest. You will be utterly ashamed of your ignorance and blindness.

I will feel no shame as I follow the word. I do not have ignorance or blindness either. But I understand that Jews returning is part of the end times prophecy as we killed Jesus and now we're holding up his return...hence some churches taking up airfare money to usher us off.

He will again bring you into the land he has promised you. With the bands of love will he draw you back. The seed of your fathers will be brought back. Your forefathers' hearts will be toward you, and your hearts will be toward your forefathers'.

We will come back and be given the land promised during the messianic era.

You have forgotten, but the LORD will never forget you.

I had forgotten thanks to being raised a Christian. Better yet, I didn't know and my family had forgotten. I now know.

You will be like them who dream. Your mouths will be filled with laughter, your tongues with singing, as he turns again your captivity back toward the streams in the south. Can a woman forget her sucking child? Can a maid forget her ornaments, her attire? He will bring his children back to his holy mountain. Stop forsaking this land, stop being stiffnecked. Stop refusing to return. The land which you think is Israel is a cursed land. It will be perpetually desolate. Come out of it, my people. Come all, with weeping and remorse. Rend your hearts. Be contrite. Be sober and come to the holy land. Cast ye up, cast ye up, prepare the way, take up the stumblingblock out of the way of my people!

Again, where does it say that the land will be perpetually desolate?

hmm, then why does it say that G-d will magnify Zion as the mountain he chooses to dwell in? Why does it say that G-d's servants will take pleasure in Zion's stones? Where are Zion's stones, anyway? Why is Zion mentioned and honored ALL throughout Isaiah? Where is Moriah in Isaiah? (It aint there, Aimie) What is Zion to you? Why does he call it the perfection of beauty?

First of all, it's Amie. I'm pretty particular about that. Second, I'm curious as to whether or not you are one of those self taught religious people. Those people tend to not take anything into context thus they are left with the ability to pick and choose. I'm not being mean for the record but I can't place you into a denomination except for non-denominational Christianity. Moving on. Zion is another name for Jerusalem. That would be why G-d is going to magnify Zion, etc. You could go to something as simple as the dictionary to see that Zion is the Jewish people, Israel, the homeland to the Jews. It's even heaven and utopia. If you want to turn to the Tanakh, you can see an example in 2 Samuel 5.7 Nevertheless David took the stronghold of Zion; the same is the city of David. Or in I Kings 8.1 Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the princes of the fathers' houses of the children of Israel, unto king Solomon in Jerusalem, to bring up the ark of the covenant of Jehovah out of the city of David, which is Zion. Or in Zephaniah 3.16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not; O Zion, let not thy hands be slack. 2 Chronicles 5.2 Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the princes of the fathers' houses of the children of Israel, unto Jerusalem, to bring up the ark of the covenant of Jehovah out of the city of David, which is Zion. Psalms 51.18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: Build thou the walls of Jerusalem. Psalms 147.12 Praise Jehovah, O Jerusalem; Praise thy God, O Zion. Do I need to go further?

Is this? the perfection of beauty?

This is perfection of beauty.



Or this. The Torah.

How 'bout this...

No the pyramid pic does nothing for me.

Could not this be the Moriahvan temple?

No because this is where the Temple was.

Why does Josephus say Zion is lower? How can this be? Unless of course Zion has been mislabeled, and sits in the lower part of Jerusalem(Giza)

Maybe because Josephus was speaking of the mountain and not Israel in general which is 5 feet lower. Think outside of the box.

In your scriptures it is magnified and it will be established forever. not Moriah. Moriah is history. There will be no future temple on Moriah.

As shown above, Zion is Israel.

Moriah temple burned down long ago and G-d will never rebuild it there, besides you do not even know where Moriah is located.

Of course we do considering there are records from the time period of it burning. So since you know that it burned, obviously you also know where Moriah is.

Is it not also convenient that there is a tributary of the "Nile" which is exactly 4,000 cubits to the east of "The Great Pyramid"?(ez. 47) Could not this "pyramid" be Mt. Zion?

Who cares whether or not it's Mt. Zion? Zion and Mt. Zion are different.

Could not corner stone = head of the corner?

I presume you mean the peak of a pyramid. Judaism is the cornerstone for Christianity and Islam. Are we the peak? Are we head of the corner? I guess according to your scriptures we are. Because it is contained in scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame. I Peter 2.6.

Not "the" abomination.

THE abomination happened when our altar was desecrated. THE abomination happened when our temple was destroyed.

So we now have an end of sins and are experiencing everlasting righteousness. Gee, I thought it would be less painful than this.

Who said anything about end of sins and experiencing everlasting righteousness? You did. Not me. Our moshiach will not be sinless and when he comes, he will make a sacrifice for all. And since we're discussing Daniel, that's for us Jews and nothing has been painless for us.

I could tell you but would you believe me?

I answered the question and no I wouldn't believe you. G-d gave me information so I don't need it from others.

Who will be killed? The anointed one.

Yeah I answered that one too.

Who is the anointed one? Well let's just say he has a set of horns.

Onias, who was killed. I answered that too.

Where is there mention of Moriah being exalted?

I see you couldn't answer mine. Moriah is a part of a city that is a part of Zion. You know like the kids song....a tree in the hole and the hole in the ground and the green grass grows all around all around and the green grass grows all around.

Shadows my dear, shadows.

Um okay whatever.

Someday you're prince will come, someday you're prince will come.

I'm married to my prince. He's not my moshiach.

What feminine person is Isaiah talking about when the L-rd says sons of strangers will rebuild her walls in ch60?

Zion, Jerusalem, Israel, etc. Is it not spelled out enough for you?

Who will arise and shine? Mt Moriah? or Mt. Zion?

It's not a freaking mountain. Jesus! You honestly can't be this dense. I know you're going to redeem yourself.

Is it not convenient that you have ignored my position that you do not even know where you're holy city is located? Evidence is on my side. Why do you choose to be stiffnecked about this. You say you don't want to be in the desert, but is it not true that it is prophesied that there will be streams in the desert and it shall blossom like a rose and be as the gareden of Eden?

I've ignored nothing. I do know where it is as there is plenty of evidence to show where it is including that of Josephus. It's nice to see your anti-semitic side come out. Also I haven't said I don't want to be in the desert. I can suggest for you this. Read the Tanakh. Get out a map. Read even Josephus and I'm not a big proponent of his.

The self-fullfilled prophesies you think were already fulfilled are I say VEHEMENTLY false fulfillments.

NOTHING has been fulfilled messianically speaking. Every generation, a person who has the potential to be our moshiach is born. One day, it will happen.

What is keeping you back from you're true homeland. O Jerusalem, how I would like to gather you as a mother hen gathers her chicks. Why would you refuse to hear from your G-d?

Who is refusing to hear? I refuse to hear things that you say as I've now drawn certain conclusions about you.

Behold, you're house, you're city, you're country is left unto you desolate, it lies in ruins to this day, you shall not see me 'til you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the L-ord.

New Testament junk. Nice. What does the Tanakh have to say?

Why did Jesus condemn the cities of Chorazin! and Bethsaida!
Why did he condemn the fig tree?

Jesus has NOTHING to do with me so I could care less what he did or when he did it.

Why did he condemn that filthy, abominable "temple" by saying no stone shall be left unturned?

Because he was ticked off that they would let him play his games.

Why did he say he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel?

Who cares?

Why did Jeremiah say that you people have allowed your shepherds to cause you to go astray and go from mountain to hill and FORGRT YOUR RESTINGPLACE?

That's it. You're illiterate. Look it up. I don't mean it as in stupid for the record. Verse 4...."In those days and at that time--declares the L-rd" hmmmmm is that past tense? Yes it is! Verse 6 "My people were lost sheep." Is that also past tense? By golly! I think it is! As a matter of fact! I know it is!

Why did Ezra admit that his people were still bondmen even when they were rebuilding the temple? Does not this admit exile?

Chapter 9 is about intermarriage. Did you miss that part where "holy seed has become intermingled with the peoples of the land?" I guess so since you're a pick and choose kind of guy. Ezra was freaking out. The prayer in verses 6 and 7 is Daniel's prayer and then he goes on to say that they had been granted a short reprieve. You can see through his pleas that Ezra felt certain that the Jews were headed back to being punished. "Will You not rage against us till we are destroyed without remnant or survivor?"

Why did John compare the city that my L-ord was crucifed in to Sodom and Egypt?

John has no bearing on me as he was an apostate Jew.

If you can't answer these questions correctly, then I ask someone else, somewhere else. Whether you refuse or accept my doctrine, it shall be established.

Your doctrine? Your doctrine has no bearing on me as it's against G-d's wishes for me. See he warned us about crazies in Deuteronomy 13. He also told us in Deuteronomy that we are to protect ourselves. That is first and foremost the one thing we are to do. Without protecting ourselves, we can't protect our heritage, identity, commandments, etc. Furthermore, if G-d wanted us to know about you then he would have said, "Children, listen up. I'm sending this fellow named Steve who is going to lead you back to where you belong because only he knows the truth out of all of the other billions and billions of people who have lived in this world." G-d didn't say that so I can't listen. LALALALALALA

The stone that you reject WILL become the head of the corner.
You watch and see.

I already did. Peter said it too. We Jews ARE your cornerstone.

But ye are they that forsake the L-RD, that forget my holy mountain.

I'm one of the chosen. I'm sorry that bothers you so. I didn't ask to be born a Jew. But I'm certainly glad that G-d found favor on me!

Originally posted by Shonet1430
...that's for us Jews

My dear, would I not gather your favour by saying you are of the synogogue of Satan, and say that you say you are a Jew but are not?
I didn't think so.

Moriah is a part of a city that is a part of Zion.

suuuuuure!

I'm married to my prince. He's not my moshiach.

You mean your husband is a leader of Israel? or is he a man of fierce countenace who disregards women?

It's not a freaking mountain.

I assume I struck a nerve?


re: Jerusalem:

I do know where it is as there is plenty of evidence to show where it is including that of Josephus. It's nice to see your anti-semitic side come out. Also I haven't said I don't want to be in the desert. I can suggest for you this. Read the Tanakh. Get out a map. Read even Josephus and I'm not a big proponent of his.

No, I'm pro-semetic. Actually my closest allie is the most G-d fearing Jew in this earth. His name is Israel. He lives in southern Wisconsin. I would like you to meet him. He is a very special young man. If you don't know where that is, get out a map.

Where is the evidence that you blatantly label a trash heap a holy city?
This? is Jerusalem

NOTHING has been fulfilled messianically speaking. Every generation, a person who has the potential to be our moshiach is born. One day, it will happen.

I did not suggest messianically speaking. Your ignorant people claim that in 1948 many of the prophesies in Isaiah had been fullfilled. Mr. Truman actually audaciously declared that he was the latter-day Cyrus. So you planted vineyards and cultivated a barren land. Note I say "a" barren land. Not "the holy land"

Who is refusing to hear?I refuse to hear things that you say as I've now drawn certain conclusions about you.

I think you just answered your question. So, at least toward me, you are stiffnecked, obstinate, rebellious, backsliding heifer, etc.

Now you must be a little more objective, Aime. For if it is G-d who sent me to converse with you, well, quite frankly, you're in a pickle.

Behold, you're house, you're city, you're country is left unto you desolate, it lies in ruins to this day, you shall not see me 'til you say blessed is he who comes in the name of the L-ord.

New Testament junk. Nice. What does the Tanakh have to say?

I'm a little too lazy to type "desolate" in my bible search engine.....
You do it, kay? But look in Jeremiah and Isaiah for starters.

Why did Jesus condemn the cities of Chorazin! and Bethsaida!
Why did he condemn the fig tree?

Jesus has NOTHING to do with me so I could care less what he did or when he did it.

Jesus has everything to do with you. You just don't know it.

Why did he condemn that filthy, abominable "temple" by saying no stone shall be left unturned?

Because he was ticked off that they would let him play his games.

Why was the curse fulfilled?

Why did he say he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel?

Who cares?

HE cares.

Why did Jeremiah say that you people have allowed your shepherds to cause you to go astray and go from mountain to hill and FORGRT YOUR RESTINGPLACE?

That's it. You're illiterate. Look it up. I don't mean it as in stupid for the record. Verse 4...."In those days and at that time--declares the L-rd" hmmmmm is that past tense? Yes it is! Verse 6 "My people were lost sheep." Is that also past tense? By golly! I think it is! As a matter of fact! I know it is!

If this is past tense, then why do your people need to remember where Zion is?(verse5) Why do they need to ASK where Zion is. How could they forget in 70 years? Are your people that stupid?

Why did Ezra admit that his people were still bondmen even when they were rebuilding the temple? Does not this admit exile?

Chapter 9 is about intermarriage. Did you miss that part where "holy seed has become intermingled with the peoples of the land?" I guess so since you're a pick and choose kind of guy. Ezra was freaking out. The prayer in verses 6 and 7 is Daniel's prayer and then he goes on to say that they had been granted a short reprieve. You can see through his pleas that Ezra felt certain that the Jews were headed back to being punished. "Will You not rage against us till we are destroyed without remnant or survivor?"

(SJCV)
"Oh we did it again, we sinned against the Lord! We intermarried! DAMNIT!(rip garment, pull hair)....O God you keep giving us second and third chances and we keep blowin it. I'm ashamed. Our sins are piled over our heads. In times past we have been in trouble with you. You let us be delivered into the hands of our enemies as just punishment. Sword, captivity, spoil, confusion(matter of fact we're STILL confused). And now, after 70 years, you showed us a little mercy and allowed us to return and build you house again, EVEN THO' WE'RE STILL IN BONDAGE TO CYRUS."

If you can't answer these questions correctly, then I ask someone else, somewhere else. Whether you refuse or accept my doctrine, it shall be established.

Your doctrine? Your doctrine has no bearing on me as it's against G-d's wishes for me. See he warned us about crazies in Deuteronomy 13. He also told us in Deuteronomy that we are to protect ourselves.

HE TOLD YOU TO KILL ME!!!! (VERSE 9)
Remember, if you do not kill me, you are breaking your law, and G-d's heart.

if G-d wanted us to know about you then he would have said, "Children, listen up. I'm sending this fellow named Steve who is going to lead you back to where you belong because only he knows the truth out of all of the other billions and billions of people who have lived in this world."

G-d will not speak to you directly because you're people refused to hear him back in the desert. He even said he would not. He uses messengers.

We Jews ARE your cornerstone.

You are not even Jewish.

I'm one of the chosen. I'm sorry that bothers you so. I didn't ask to be born a Jew. But I'm certainly glad that G-d found favor on me!

Yes, he found favour on you by allowing me to show you the way. What bothers me is what bothers him. You're people's resistance.

[edit on 10-6-2005 by CyrusTheShepherd]

Originally posted by Shonet1430

and the southern border shall be from the edge of the Sea of Salt [the Dead Sea] to the east.

Now I know why you guys have only a tiny little plot of land.

So what exactly is the point? If both the right hand and the tongue are paralyzed, then one can't play the lyre and sing. So to answer your question, no. You shall follow the L-rd, your G-d, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him. Yes.

Well you can't worship him then. You'd have to be quiet and not play an instrument.

Ch45:15 "You're a G-d that hides yourself" (sjc version)

Notice in verse 14, "Thus said the L-rd." G-d is talking to Cyrus as G-d worked through him. Verse 19, "Not in secret did I speak, in a place of a land of darkness."

My dear, I know chapter 45 all too well.

Ch 19:19 "There's gonna be an altar in the midst of the land of 'Egypt'(sjcv)

This is among one of so I don't know a bajillion things that he also told us and not from a dark place. But that altar is not for the Jewish people. This entire chapter is about what G-d does to Egypt to make them realize that he is the one and only. The purpose of the altar and pillar in verse 19 is explained in verse 20...And it shall be for a sign and for a witness.

The key phrase in vs 19 is "in those days" or future tense. Now, in what we call Egypt, there is going to be an altar.

ps 18:11 "his pavilion round about him are dark waters" (sjcv)

This is David's description and it actually says thick darkness under his feet, not waters. Also, this is verse 10.

no, he's talking about heavan. He covers himself with dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. 2 sam 22. This is a literal description. Either way, clouds or water or both, they're dark.

Is to become perpetual waste? Where did G-d say that in the Tanakh?

Keep looking.

My G-d is everywhere.

His spirit is everywhere. The problem you have is that you cannot find his body.

This is perfection of beauty.

This is blind zeal.

Or this. The Torah.

This is paper and words. Idolotrous.

No because this is where the Temple was.

This is where the filthy Herodian temple was. Not Solomon's.

Maybe because Josephus was speaking of the mountain and not Israel in general which is 5 feet lower. Think outside of the box.

Oh I forgot, the mountain Zion instead of the city Zion. You're pathetic.

So since you know that it burned, obviously you also know where Moriah is.

I know exactly where Moriah is.

Originally posted by CyrusTheShepherd
Is it not pheasable that it was not G-d who changed things up, but instead was the forgetfulness of the Jewish people due to generations of exile?

Let's see, Moses led Israel's children OUT of Egypt. They wondered through the wilderness, and Crossed the Jordan River to conquer Jericho. Sounds to me like the same place modern day Israel is located.

Are you saying that Jesus was misguided when he drove the money changers out of the Temple? He acknowledged that it was God's house.

My Father's house shall be called a house of prayer, but you have made it a 'den of thieves.

This is the same Temple that the Romans destroyed, the same Temple that Jesus pointed to and said that "Not one stone shall be left on another." He wasn't in Egypt when all this happened. Jerusalem has been located in the same place for thousands of years and the Temple has always been located in Jerusalem.

Originally posted by dbates
Let's see, Moses led Israel's children OUT of Egypt. They wondered through the wilderness, and Crossed the Jordan River to conquer Jericho. Sounds to me like the same place modern day Israel is located.

let's see if you can read between the lines.
Israel will lead Abraham's children OUT of "Egypt" into "Egypt".
Wher is the original Jordan anyway?
Are you sure it's a river?
Where is Jericho?

Are you saying that Jesus was misguided when he drove the money changers out of the Temple? He acknowledged that it was God's house.
My Father's house shall be called a house of prayer, but you have made it a 'den of thieves.

(sjcv)
My Father's house shall be called a house of prayer, but you have made a den of thieves. This isn't my Father's house. My Father's house has many mansions. I would not tell you if it were not so.

This is the same Temple that the Romans destroyed, the same Temple that Jesus pointed to and said that "Not one stone shall be left on another." He wasn't in Egypt when all this happened.

Well, kinda.
I think you should read my website for clarification.

Jerusalem has been located in the same place for thousands of years and the Temple has always been located in Jerusalem.

How many thousand? 3?
Are you sure?
David's Jerusalem: Fiction or Reality?

[edit on 11-6-2005 by CyrusTheShepherd]

My dear, would I not gather your favour by saying you are of the synogogue of Satan, and say that you say you are a Jew but are not?
I didn't think so.

I wouldn't care one way or the other what you called me or thought that I am. You aren't what makes or breaks me. Get over yourself.

suuuuuure!

I feel bad that it's right there in the text and you can't understand it.

You mean your husband is a leader of Israel? or is he a man of fierce countenace who disregards women?

Yeah because those are the only two definitions of prince. Get a dictionary.

I assume I struck a nerve?

No, some people just can't get things into their heads. Particularly people who get visions from their deity of choice and feel that it's their mission to lead people in a certain way. They tend to be a little bound so to speak.

No, I'm pro-semetic. Actually my closest allie is the most G-d fearing Jew in this earth. His name is Israel. He lives in southern Wisconsin. I would like you to meet him. He is a very special young man. If you don't know where that is, get out a map.

Next thing you know, you'll be telling me that he follows your doctrine and then I'll have to disregard your friend as an apostate Jew and resume my initial position that you are in fact anti-semitic.

Where is the evidence that you blatantly label a trash heap a holy city?

The Tanakh. The Talmud. Writings of sages. Even Josephus.

I did not suggest messianically speaking. Your ignorant people claim that in 1948 many of the prophesies in Isaiah had been fullfilled. Mr. Truman actually audaciously declared that he was the latter-day Cyrus. So you planted vineyards and cultivated a barren land. Note I say "a" barren land. Not "the holy land"

There is a difference between the Zionist Jews and other Jews. Read up on it.

I think you just answered your question. So, at least toward me, you are stiffnecked, obstinate, rebellious, backsliding heifer, etc.

I have no use for you except to correct the crap that keeps vomiting from your fingers. Call me what you want. I care not. But in the mean time, grow up and don't procreate.

Now you must be a little more objective, Aime. For if it is G-d who sent me to converse with you, well, quite frankly, you're in a pickle.

Is that so 'Stephe'? First rule of thumb. If you can't spell my name, don't address me. And G-d didn't send you to me. Not my G-d anyhow.

I'm a little too lazy to type "desolate" in my bible search engine.....
You do it, kay? But look in Jeremiah and Isaiah for starters.

Does it not sink into your head that what the TORAH says is what is important?

Jesus has everything to do with you. You just don't know it.

No, really, he doesn't. You can keep thinking that. Just make sure to label it...IMO.

Why was the curse fulfilled?

There was no curse to fulfill. As stated before, the Temple was not built to Ezekiel's specifications because they knew it would go. He was regurgitating what he was taught. Just like his love G-d and your neighbor was hijacked from Hillel.

HE cares.

I put his cares right up there with the words you call me. It matters not.

If this is past tense, then why do your people need to remember where Zion is?(verse5) Why do they need to ASK where Zion is. How could they forget in 70 years?

They shall inquire of Zion; their faces are directed hitherward. "Come and join the Lord [with] an everlasting covenant that shall not be forgotten." Where does that say that they need to remember where it is? Because they ask about Zion toward which their faces are pointed?

Are your people that stupid?

No, but I know who is!!!

EVEN THO' WE'RE STILL IN BONDAGE TO CYRUS."

What a crappy version you have. That doesn't say that in Hebrew. I suggest you learn since you're supposed to lead us astray, I mean lead us.

HE TOLD YOU TO KILL ME!!!! (VERSE 9)
Remember, if you do not kill me, you are breaking your law, and G-d's heart.

You shall not desire him, and you shall not hearken to him; neither shall you pity him, have mercy upon him, nor shield him. That's verse 9. Also, killing people is not a part of G-d's law. Better read for yourself what our 613 are. It's not hard if you just google it. Looks like I'll quit feeling sorry for you though.

G-d will not speak to you directly because you're people refused to hear him back in the desert. He even said he would not. He uses messengers.

LOL yeah. I hear G-d all around me. I see G-d all around me. I follow his words to me.

You are not even Jewish.

Is this one of those because I'm not black things? I hear that a lot from other crazies like you. I have a ketubah that says you're wrong. But it doesn't matter as G-d knows that I am!

Yes, he found favour on you by allowing me to show you the way. What bothers me is what bothers him. You're people's resistance.

Um no. That's why he gave us Deuteronomy 13. Now what bothers me is your inability to differentiate between your and you're. You're is a contraction made up of two words...you are. So let's look at your sentence. You are people's resistance. Doesn't make sense given the context. Your is used to show possession which would make sense as shown above.