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Ben Carson’s Middle East muddle

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posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

I'm willing to give Carson a try.

He couldn't do worse than your Obama.




posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 10:24 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Southern Guardian

Obama has been president for the past 7 years. It's been HIS foreign polices that has given rise to ISIS.

You can blame Obama, Hillary, Kerry.

Or ignore them and pretend the last 7 years didn't exist.


Actually, it begins in Iran in 1953. We've been involved in the Middle East far too much for far too long.


Even further, go back to the Sykes-Picot Agreement in 1916, in which France, England and Russia carved up the Middle East after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, with arbitrary straight lines -- with no regard to cultural or social groups. That was pretty much the start of Western Imperialism/meddling.



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Southern Guardian

Obama has been president for the past 7 years. It's been HIS foreign polices that has given rise to ISIS.

You can blame Obama, Hillary, Kerry.

Or ignore them and pretend the last 7 years didn't exist.


Actually, it begins in Iran in 1953. We've been involved in the Middle East far too much for far too long.


Even further, go back to the Sykes-Picot Agreement in 1916, in which France, England and Russia carved up the Middle East after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, with arbitrary straight lines -- with no regard to cultural or social groups. That was pretty much the start of Western Imperialism/meddling.


Thank you! I love a new avenue of research to explore.



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 10:41 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Southern Guardian

Obama has been president for the past 7 years. It's been HIS foreign polices that has given rise to ISIS.

You can blame Obama, Hillary, Kerry.

Or ignore them and pretend the last 7 years didn't exist.


Actually, it begins in Iran in 1953. We've been involved in the Middle East far too much for far too long.


Even further, go back to the Sykes-Picot Agreement in 1916, in which France, England and Russia carved up the Middle East after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, with arbitrary straight lines -- with no regard to cultural or social groups. That was pretty much the start of Western Imperialism/meddling.


One of the biggest injustices of that was that the Kurds didn't get a country which has caused problems in the region that are rarely discussed.



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 10:45 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

There was huge media attention devoted to Carson's anecdotes in his biography and hardly anything about his claim the Chinese were in Syria. His business manager and main spokesman explicitly said earlier in the week that there were Chinese on the ground before the campaign indignantly claimed Carson didn't really say what he said. What kind of mess could an idiot like this get us into as president?



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 10:52 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Southern Guardian

Obama has been president for the past 7 years. It's been HIS foreign polices that has given rise to ISIS.

You can blame Obama, Hillary, Kerry.

Or ignore them and pretend the last 7 years didn't exist.


Actually, it begins in Iran in 1953. We've been involved in the Middle East far too much for far too long.


Even further, go back to the Sykes-Picot Agreement in 1916, in which France, England and Russia carved up the Middle East after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, with arbitrary straight lines -- with no regard to cultural or social groups. That was pretty much the start of Western Imperialism/meddling.




This has been a mess created by the west for a long long period of time.....



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 10:54 PM
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The GOP will never nominate Trump or Carson. They know that either one of those fools would insure a Hillary victory.

But...and that's a large but...If there are wars to be fought it's J. Bush's turn....It's an well established pattern and the neocons are still as powerful as ever in the political realm. Does the American electorate have the stomach for another war in the ME? Are they willing to sacrifice their young people again?
edit on 13-11-2015 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 11:11 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

If it goes back that far, then what difference would Carson's approach make?



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 11:13 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: MystikMushroom

If it goes back that far, then what difference would Carson's approach make?


Carson can continue the same cycle (which he's made very apparent he would) by dragging America and the wests involvement in that region further.



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 11:19 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

You do know that Hillary and the Pres, have quite a bit to do with the current state of the region don't you?

No matter who replaces Obama, it is going to be an inherited mess....

Are you saying that Hillary is going to completely disengage from a mess that she's partly to blame?

I certainly hope that she won't unleash another "Arab Spring" to spur a rise of democracy across the land...



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 11:34 PM
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The thing is, Carson alone won't be able to solve anything.

I'm honestly at a complete loss as to what CAN be done at this point. We have generations of people over there that resent Western meddling/involvement.

How would we feel if aliens had been covertly holding us back, placing radical leaders in power that don't care about the people? How would we feel if these same aliens also did this in the open? How about if these aliens then bombed our countries when the leaders THEY put in place disobeyed these aliens? When some radical anti-alien group springs up near you, it probably sounds pretty good -- its not like your life is great, and what do you have to loose?

How would you feel when you learned that these anti-alien groups are also being played as political chess pieces by the aliens? Wouldn't you feel hopeless, angry, and willing to follow any charismatic person who offers some kind of revenge and retribution?

What these radicals are doing is 100% despicable and wrong, but it's not like these people aren't human beings. These people believe they have valid reasons for their hate, and justifications for the violence. People only know what they are taught and experience. If you grow up in a bombed out hell hole, and fed Islamofacist propaganda your entire life, you're probably not going to be to friendly to Westerners.

I honestly don't know what Carson, Clinton, Sanders, or any POTUS candidate can DO to make things better. There have been entire generations now of people who have had a culture of violence and anti-Western sentiments drilled into them.

We can't just walk away and ignore them. We can't just bomb them into the stone age either. If any of them survive our "clean slate" bombing, they'll remember what we did and the cycle starts all over.

I honestly don't have any "Flex Seal" infomercial quick fixes to offer. There isn't just some can of spray-diplomacy that you can apply to cover up the years of violence and intervention that's been going on over there.



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 11:36 PM
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originally posted by: Southern Guardian

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: MystikMushroom

If it goes back that far, then what difference would Carson's approach make?


Carson can continue the same cycle (which he's made very apparent he would) by dragging America and the wests involvement in that region further.


You mean Obama's cycle?

I don't get it.

The ME is not Obama's fault, even though he's been president for 7 years, yet Carson isn't even in office and you're already placing the blame on him.



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: JacKatMtn


originally posted by: JacKatMtn
Are you saying that Hillary is going to completely disengage from a mess that she's partly to blame?


Funny... I never mentioned Hillary in any of my posts... never stated I was a Hillary supporter either. It's not nice to make baseless assumptions here. You should know better.

(If you had asked nicely, I would have told you I support Bernie, leaning Rand as well, instead of making assumptions).


I certainly hope that she won't unleash another "Arab Spring" to spur a rise of democracy across the land...


I'm fairly certain Hillary hasn't advocated for the kind of involvement in the middle east the same level as Carson and the other GOP has. Like Carson, I'd be holding the candidates responsible about what they promise or what policies they put out on the campaign. Unless you can pull out her saying this on the campaign, more military involvement, I wouldn't put her in the same category as Carson when it comes to foreign policy and war. Sure, we can assume she'll continue to same regime (which knowing Hillary, she probably will continue much of what Bush and Obama did) but at this moment, I'm focusing on what the candidates promise. What their words say.



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 11:48 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy


You mean Obama's cycle?

I don't get it.


What's there not to get? Obama never started the cycle of western interventionism in the ME. Did Obama authorize the Iraq war in 2003? Hmm? Did he authorize the Iraqi invasion in 91'? Was he responsible for the Iran Contra affair in the 80's?

What's not to get? Am I missing something? Has Obama been president for 30 or so odd years? hmm.


The ME is not Obama's fault, even though he's been president for 7 years,


So because he's president, he should take responsibility for all the issues in the Middle East. But Carson, oh boy, he's innocent, event though he's made it perfectly clear he intends to get more involved in the ME compared to Obama. The logic is astounding.

Nobody is blaming Carson for the issues in the Middle East. The OP however does address Carsons intentions to drag US involvement far further into the ME if he is president. What's hard to understand here? Why don't you beyond partisanship hmm?



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 11:52 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Tell me... do you agree with Carson's foreign policy?



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

I'd take you seriously if you were even half as critical of Obama's ME policies. but hey, if the partisan hat fits, wear it proudly.



posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 11:57 PM
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originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: DBCowboy

Tell me... do you agree with Carson's foreign policy?


No. I don't think it goes far enough or is hard enough.

ME cultures think the US is weak. A continuation of US half-assing it would just continue he approach that the west is weak.

I say cut all funds to the ME and treat every assault with an over the top response that actually LEAVES THEM SCARED.



posted on Nov, 14 2015 @ 12:09 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Southern Guardian

I'd take you seriously if you were even half as critical of Obama's ME policies. but hey, if the partisan hat fits, wear it proudly.


Your idea of being critical of Obama's foreign policy is him not doubling down on troops and military involvement there, which is something I don't support at all. Carson stated he would even set a no fly zone in Syria, challenging Russian aircraft directly. You don't take me seriously apparently, but you do Carson.

Yep.



posted on Nov, 14 2015 @ 12:18 AM
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Why so many threads on BEN CARSON? He's probably a nice guy, but Hillary Clinton would give him brain freezes in debates. He already has to close his eyes during the first 3 words while answering tough questions. Trump would get angry and pull her wig off. Rubio or Cruz would be able to counter-punch very effectively, IMO. Beating Hillary is Priority #1.



posted on Nov, 14 2015 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

Actually, I think we should stop paying OPEC. just phase it out over a few years an stop relying on their oil.

I'd say that Carson should just continue Obama's policies, but what would we do with even more ISIS terrorist groups?



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