Protesters Confront Caitlyn Jenner: 'You're An Insult To Trans People'

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: toktaylor

How about just not being an asshole and call them what they want to be called?

What they want to be called and what they are is in conflict. Do not ask us to accept that this gentleman is now a 'she' because he wants to called such. All I am saying is we cannot change the definition of a thing or the rules of the English language to agree with a persons psyche. Pronouns are what help us identify the subject matter...and i am getting pretty confused...if I am, how so the children of the world.

a reply to: toktaylor

Sure we can. Words are arbitrary strings we assign to describe things. If we want to see that Caitlyn Jenner is a woman now it's as easy as saying, "Caitlyn Jenner is a woman now."

Besides, science has already shown that chromosomes aren't a valid way to determine gender.

Pronouns are what help us identify the subject matter...and i am getting pretty confused...if I am, how so the children of the world.

What's so confusing about calling someone something they want to be called and not calling them something they don't want to be called? You are getting hung up by your prejudices. Children don't have prejudices so they wouldn't have any confusion. So I wouldn't worry about them too much in that regard. They'll be just fine.

Gotta admit I usually have thought of myself as liberal leaning, at least when I was younger. But damn this conservative lean was a surprise. Started happening a few years ago when I turned on a dime and voted for a republican. I've voted for independents before, but no republicans. A stunner! So anyway, transgenders make me feel strange. Ok so a guy comes out and wants to be a woman and expects everybody else to suddenly accept it overnight. When it doesn't happen, s/he and all of the transgenders community and all of their supporters will say the people who cannot accept it quickly must be bigoted or racist or something terrible. And so I have to some extent been thrown in with that crowd.

I just can't relate. Not as liberal indeed. How much conservative is there in me? Or bigot? Or prejudice? Some I imagine, as is proven here.

I would never stop or prohibit a person from switching genders. Neither would I seek to discriminate or harass. And yet I want a place to express my skepticism of hte whole thing. Or at least to have my own space.

(And yes I'm well aware some people are born with a private part of the opposite gender. Nature is not a perfect manufacturer. I'd be unsurprised if nature produces a female but gives her a male body by accident. Nature is not the perfection romanticised in many art forms. Neither are we. Maybe people wnat something to be perfect, so they created God.)

a reply to: Krazysh0t

And if tomorrow a full grown pedophile wants to be called a child, we treat them as such thus excusing/pardoning their crime against children. Where does it all end...???. These persons need help, I accept that, but changing the rules of the game is not the way to help. We need to provide/research treatment to allow these persons to come back to the norms of society and not the other way round.

originally posted by: toktaylor
....
pardoning their crime against children.

Children are unable to give consent.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

True but they cannot be tried as adult either...and two children engaging in sex are not accountable, thus the scenario above...

a reply to: toktaylor

Whoa! Don't point that slippery slope fallacy at me. FIRST, changing your identity like you are suggesting doesn't suddenly excuse you from your past crimes. Second, that was what this whole thread is about. Honoring this lady even though she killed someone.

We need to provide/research treatment to allow these persons to come back to the norms of society and not the other way round.

Because that worked SOOOO well with gay people right?

originally posted by: toktaylor
True but they cannot be tried as adult either...and two children engaging in sex are not accountable, thus the scenario above...

The law looks at chronological age, not mental age when determining consent.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes and the law used to look at initial gender when determining if one is male and female. Now if the law can be changed to accommodate ones physiological state, what is to stop pedophiles from going down the same path, using the same excuse.

originally posted by: toktaylor
Yes and the law used to look at initial gender when determining if one is male and female. Now if the law can be changed to accommodate ones physiological state, what is to stop pedophiles from going down the same path, using the same excuse.

Because a pedophile can not alter their chronological age to circumvent consent laws.

a reply to: toktaylor

You can't compare trans people with Pedophilia.

The West are the ones who Created a Two Gender Binary system, if you look across many cultures throughout History there were/are Third and Alternative "Genders" and they were celebrated

a reply to: Darth_Prime

which is exactly my point...why are we referring to Caitlin as a "she". We need to identify the third gender to avoid the confusion. Currently we only have two "he" and "she" and he is not a "she".

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Well until Caitlyn alters his biological features, physical gender, etc., including his chromosomes...he still a "HE".

originally posted by: toktaylor

Well until Caitlyn alters his biological features, physical gender, etc., including his chromosomes...he still a "HE".

None of that has anything to do with your pedophilia scenario. They are two wholly different issues in many ways.

I think caitlyn or Bruce should have waited a long time after the accident to come out. accidently killing someone especially if due to one's own error can destroy certain people's psyche. I am of the opinion bruce changed right after the accident in order for the mind to leave that guilt with bruce and not with caitlyn.


Also I highly I repeat highly doubt the West "created" the first two gender system. Some cultures have room for 3rd genders some do not. It's likely ebbed back a forth in cultures throughout time. Some cultures had room for pedo's some did not, some practiced polygamy some did not, some practiced all women as 2nd class citizens and some did not.

I get it though, the west is evil. I would not have ranted if created wasn't in bold lol.

P.S. I could care less about what adults do with their bodies or what they want to call themselves.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

It's a slippery slope fallacy, and to be honest doesn't really need much consideration as a valid point.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

It's a slippery slope fallacy, and to be honest doesn't really need much consideration as a valid point.

I know. I always find it odd that homosexuals/trans people get lumped in with child and animal rapers when the people who are against them try to prove a point.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Exactly. His point doesn't make any sense anyways. People don't change their gender to get around gender laws (of course this was an argument pushed forward to get Houston to not vote for the bathroom bill a month back). So there is no analogical comparison to be made between treating gender dysphoria and pedophiles trying to circumvent the system to be labeled as a child.

a reply to: Annee

I am a man. And I don't buy this political correct nonsense.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Well Krazyshot had made the point of "accepting" people for the gender they choose to identify with. And the point I am making is we should not since the same scenario can be used has an escape route for a pedophile. He/She could easily feels like an 8 year old trap in an adult body.

Gender, Age, sex are classifications which are set and defined. We just cant change (or we shouldn't) the rules to accommodate ones mental state.