Can you defend bringing a child into the world?

a reply to: Profusion

You should watch the movie 'Children of men'...

touches on this!

a reply to: Profusion

Curious to know how your parents felt? The world has been a screwed up place for centuries, every single civilization since the dawn of time has either had to deal with man made calamities and destruction or natural disasters.

The purpose of being a species of any kind is to procreate and keep the species alive and evolving, progression is a natural order of things, so while I understand your "pessimistic" outlook, if every species felt the same way there wouldn't be an Earth to worry about.

Eh, i can defend it quite easily. Get the hell over it. I do not have to defend my chilsren to the pessimists like you for starters.

Oh and here comes the slavery bit. Give me a break. Basically, son. You are responsible for your own food, shelter, and care 100% But you are free! Or you could work a little. You know work a paid job. Do this and have time to pursue hobbies and goals in life.

I get it. We have a slave consumerist system. Yada yada. Whats the alternative? I have no desire to learn farming. Thanks ill pass.

My kid will love all the cool # in the world today. I will teach him to focus on the positive bwcause that is what matters.

Somebody has to have balls to continue or mankind would already be extinct from quitters such as yourself.

I enjoy aspects of our world everyday. I love it.

Here is my defense. To give another being the experience of life. Experience of life is everything good or bad.

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Profusion
The purpose of being a species of any kind is to procreate and keep the species alive and evolving, progression is a natural order of things, so while I understand your "pessimistic" outlook, if every species felt the same way there wouldn't be an Earth to worry about.

You don't realize that "every species" does not have the capability of making a conscious choice about whether to procreate or not? In fact, humans are the only species that can make that choice.

That alone sets us apart from the other species. Since we have that level of conscious awareness, it's our duty to use it.

You're claiming something that just is completely false. Your argument is summed up in the following syllogism:

Humans are an animal species.
The purpose of being a species of any kind is to procreate and keep the species alive and evolving.
Therefore, humans must procreate to keep the species alive and evolving.

First of all, can you prove that the second line in the syllogism above is true? It looks like an assumption to me, not a statement of fact.

Furthermore, since humans have the capability of making a conscious choice about whether to procreate or not, the above syllogism does not apply to us.

400k in the bank. I'm not as gloomy as some. People adapt to the world they're born into. If I can reach the monies before 2020 I'll go for kids and try to educate them to be most adaptable for a career out in space. We're graduating from this rock before the end of the century. Either my kids or grandkids will be space faring. If no monies before 2020 just enjoy the ride.

a reply to: olaru12

If you don't have enough sense to use your turn signals, you should't have kids.

lol, that.

Common sense isn't a requirement to breed, unfortunately.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: olaru12

If you don't have enough sense to use your turn signals, you should't have kids.

lol, that.

Common sense isn't a requirement to breed, unfortunately.

copy that!

I taught 6th grade years ago and thats when I realized that America as a culture is destined/doomed to grovel in the social cesspool with out a clue that the renaissance even ever f***** existed.

we are not men, we are devo....

a reply to: Profusion

Yes. We are the only ones that can make that a free will decision. However, the survival of any species is a natural process brought about by procreation. You don't want to have kids because the world sucks? I get it. But the world has sucked for so long what difference does it make. The species still has to survive.

Would you rather you were never born? Or are there things in life that you are grateful for?

I have made the same decision:
If I do not want to be reborn as a human I should not create a body that will be infused with another soul. Better that souls stay somewhere else where it can shine.

I think your title sums it up nicely.

All the problems stated in the thread can be defended against.

It becomes a battle of will.

There is not much a parent would not do in defense of a child but many do not get the chance.

The whole "everything is going to hell" crap has been going on since the damn dawn of man. I'm sure there was some grumpy caveman shaking his fists at the kids and proclaiming that the world had gone to hell and social security would be insolvent before they grew up.

It's all about attitude. People take life in three ways: Optimistically, Pessimistically, or with disinterest in general. I figure why be anything but optimistic? You want kids, have a litter if you choose. Don't want kids? Fine.

The world, and it's humans, go through cycles of war, peace, acceptance, denial, etc. Ultimately, everything continues to advance, and future generations will shake that same fist, proclaiming the world has gone to the #ter. probably right up until the sun explodes or something, and that one last grumpy old man will be able to throw his arms up in victory and proclaim, "I TOLD YOU!"

I'll tell you what I think as a mother of two, and what I tell everyone around me.
There is an age in a person life (man or woman) when he feels absolutely compelled to have children. From different reasons: to be like everyone around him, to satisfy the basic instinct of procreating, to honor its family wishes, to have someone of its own to love, to give a meaning to its life.

Most reasons to have a child are selfish reasons in a manner of speaking. We don't bring children to this world for them, we bring them for us. To fill an empty space in our being. After that, of course we learn to love them, to sacrifice for them, they become the most important part of our life. Some learn to love them unconditionally, and that is what absolve us of our initial selfishness.

But most people project their own dreams and desires onto their child, and force him down a path of their own making. And get disenchanted and out of love as soon as the child doesn't stand up to expectations: be it career or religion or sexual orientation or incompatible spouse and so on.

And finally, 20 years or so later the child goes on with his life, sometimes far away from you, and you find yourself back to the square one. Trying to figure out your life again.

What I'm trying to say is that is a good thing to have children, especially if you feel this very strongly. You learn a lot, get trough a lot and achieve a level of maturity almost impossible without this experience. Is one of the major human experiences.

But if you don't feel this strong urge and your mind tells you not to, then don't feel guilty. Not a single bit. We are enough on this planet so the future of humanity does not depend on you. For every person without children there are a thousand or so with. If you feel that you can have a meaningful life without children then go on and get it.

The world is harsh and cruel; I often wake up at nights thinking about all the things that can go wrong in my kids' life, about all the dangers out there, all the diseases, all the crimes, and I know I cannot protect them in any way. I can only hope and pray and be grateful for every new day they are fine. This is the price we pay for getting a meaning in our lives; it can be snatched away from us in a minute. So we live in fear and worry, especially if the kids are problematic.

So don't let anyone tell you you must have children if you feel like you don't. Life is rich and unexpected and diverse, there is no secret recipe for happiness, and children definitely don't guarantee that . Do what your heart tells you to do. Your life is not about children but about you; children can be a part of it, or not.
And of course, if few years down the road you change your mind that will be fine too.

No ,so I haven't.

a reply to: Profusion

Plain simple fact: there is not one unselfish chosen reason to procreate.

Humans are not a dying species that need to continue multiplying irresponsibly to survive.

I don't have to defend anything about the children in my life, or the ones who aren't kids anymore.

The world is what it is. I grew up on ground zeros in various places in the world. The first year of my life was within an afternoons drive of the Soviet Red Army, along with many thousands of other children. So, please, don't tell me how oh, so terrible the world is.

In all things there is a balance. In about an hour, I can walk about three blocks and watch a bunch of those kids, whose existence you seem to think needs validation, play in the school yard. Perfectly safe. They'll go home, and be perfectly safe.

The world could end tomorrow, you say, or imply? And? So we should live in terror of something that might happen?

My niece Sarah is the light of my life. At my age, she's the closest thing I'll ever have to a daughter. To imagine my life without her in it is something I don't care to do.

I'm sorry your world view is so dark, it must be to have such an attitude...

The world can be a sucky place, what is new about this?

Children are the hope of the future. They're the reason to hope for the present.

You don't want kids? Fine. Don't try to justify that by calling those who do wrong.

originally posted by: GoShredAK
That boy was meant to be born.

My grandson was apparently meant to be born also.

I had a very strong premonition some 30/40 years ago of me being vitally instrumental in the care and upbringing of a young curly-haired boy. The circumstances of him and all that happened to bring me to him as his primary caretaker is very complex. There seems to be something special about him (he is 8). I can't explain it.

However - - still - - choosing to have a child is purely a selfish act.

Where does the ideology come from that children should only be brought into a perfect world? Never have,and likely never will be. I can completely justify having children. I cannot justify the ugliness in the world that discourages people from doing so. But for all that is horrible in this reality...there is just as much beauty. You choose what to see,what to make of it ,and what to pass on. If I only saw the negative side,either I may have chosen not to have children ,or try to make the world a better place for them. Children are innocent,and only see the good in everything. It's the grown ups who make it ugly.

originally posted by: Profusion

originally posted by: soulpowertothendegree
a reply to: Profusion
The purpose of being a species of any kind is to procreate and keep the species alive and evolving, progression is a natural order of things, so while I understand your "pessimistic" outlook, if every species felt the same way there wouldn't be an Earth to worry about.

You don't realize that "every species" does not have the capability of making a conscious choice about whether to procreate or not? In fact, humans are the only species that can make that choice.

That alone sets us apart from the other species. Since we have that level of conscious awareness, it's our duty to use it.

You're claiming something that just is completely false. Your argument is summed up in the following syllogism:

Humans are an animal species.
The purpose of being a species of any kind is to procreate and keep the species alive and evolving.
Therefore, humans must procreate to keep the species alive and evolving.

First of all, can you prove that the second line in the syllogism above is true? It looks like an assumption to me, not a statement of fact.

Furthermore, since humans have the capability of making a conscious choice about whether to procreate or not, the above syllogism does not apply to us.

Hmmm, to a certain point.
We evolved to have intense pleasure from sexual encounters, and when we are aroused (mainly men) a lot of our 'conscious' awareness kind of shuts down. We still are slaves to sex, and anything involving procreation, we are just a little more complicated than other living things.

Bringing a child into the world was merely a reason to pass on your genes, but since we are extremely social creatures we developed into what we see today.

To answer the post titles question YES...

Even though this is a very negatively focused reality, its almost ALWAYS been that way...As it says in the bible, there is nothing new under the sun....We have children hoping for a better day and a better life than what we have and it IS possible....If everyone thought like you the human race would almost certainly have ended already....

You have to always try and the find positives out of any situation....they are there you just need to shift your perception of things as they are....a reply to: Profusion