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Utah Judge Removes Foster Child (pending adoption) From Home Because Parents are Lesbian

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posted on Nov, 13 2015 @ 07:16 PM
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I wouldn't wish the Heterosexual people who raised me on my worst enemy, but their Sexuality was not what made them evil




posted on Nov, 14 2015 @ 09:50 AM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes
You are missing the point. Even if there was conclusive evidence that children raised gay households did wad worse (and there isn't) that wouldn't justify the decision unless it showed that this was a factor that overwhelmed all other circumstances such stability of relationship, ability of family to financially support yhe child etc.
The decision should have bern made based on the individual circumstances (that is the point of having a court decide)
The fact that the judge citied flawed and inclusive research about general results suggests that this was not the case.
As for your last link the fact that it is possible to be gay and transphobic is neither news nor relevant.
I still feel no need to be tolerant of intolerance.


That's basically what I stated. The study I cited shows some problems, using a large sampling, and gleaning data from adult children, rather than from parents, as other studies have done. The reviews even state that some other factors, such as divorces, etc., could affect the outcomes. The clearest indicator is that a lot more study needs to be done. Unbiased, with large random sampling, and without people assuming a conclusion beforehand. That will take some time.

In this case, the judge doesn't have the best record, which I stated. The research he might have used hasn't been stated, so we cannot say whether or not it was flawed. Much of the research leaning the other direction is flawed, which has been shown. Small, selective sampling, and consulting parents instead of grown children, isn't the best method for accuracy. The simple fact is, we need more study.

Tossing out a "phobic" label isn't relevant or civil. One can disagree with someone else without being phobic, and such labels only weaken your position.



No you stated his decision was supported by the data which it isn't.

You also said his decision would be right if supported by the data.. Again this is wrong unless the data stated that all gay parents are worse than all straight parents regardless of all other circumstances.

With regard my description of the brietbart article as Transphobic I stand by that description, it makes the same arguments that homophobic commentators make about gay groups (so much so that if any other source I would assume a Poe). The article is also completely irrelevant to this discussion.



posted on Nov, 14 2015 @ 12:14 PM
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Mark Regnerus

How Scientists Debunked the Biggest Anti-Gay-Marriage Study
: nymag.com...

Why is this study being used to fight efforts to legalize same-sex marriage adoption rights for LGBT people?



The president of the Witherspoon Institute, which funded the bulk of the New Family Structures Study, told Regnerus (before the professor began collecting data) that he wanted the study to be completed in time for Supreme Court decisions regarding same-sex marriage. Immediately after the study was published in June 2012, it has been frequently referenced by social conservative groups, anti-gay activists, lawmakers, and judges in the U.S. and around the world to argue that same-sex marriage should be banned. The argument tends to be that if children are known to be negatively impacted if raised by same-sex parents – as Regnerus study claims – the government should discourage such families by banning same-sex marriage. Many American judges, Supreme Court justices, and LGBT advocates have dismissed the very premise of this argument – arguing that potential parenting outcomes should not be a factor in the marriage-equality question – regardless of the fact that the study bolstering it is flawed. www.regnerusfallout.org...


New Research Further Debunks Regnerus Study On Gay Parenting
SUBMITTED BY Miranda Blue on Wednesday, 5/6/2015




In an upcoming article, a pair of sociologists are putting what they call the “final nail in the coffin” of the much-criticized study by University of Texas sociologist Mark Regnerus that purported to show that being raised by gay and lesbian parents harms children. The Regnerus study has become a favorite tool of Religious Right activists seeking to show that households led by same-sex couples are bad for children. At the same time, the study has come under scrutiny for the funding it received from anti-gay groups and for its lack of respondents who were actually raised in same-sex parent households.

Indiana University's Brian Powell and the University of Connecticut’s Simon Cheng didn’t just find methodological flaws in Regnerus’ research — they took the data he collected, cleaned it up, and redid the study, coming to a very different conclusion about families led by same-sex couples. Their article will be published in “Social Science Research,” the same journal that published the Regnerus study. - See more at: www.rightwingwatch.org...


--------------------------------------------------

However, the Religious Right continues to support the Regnerus study. He continues to be paid as a speaker at Religious Rights events.

Religious Right Denies Claim Evangelicals Embracing Same-Sex Marriage – With A Regnerus Study



To refute a claim by Politico that evangelical Christians are slowly embracing same-sex marriage, the religious right trots out the author of the most widely excoriated anti-gay parenting study in history: Mark Regnerus.

www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...

WORLD CONGRESS OF FAMILIES IX SCHEDULE OCTOBER 27-30, 2015 - - - - Speaker: Mark Regnerus

The Austin Institute for the Study of Family and Culture
(yes, he is a teacher): wcf9.org...


edit on 14-11-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2015 @ 08:36 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
They have definitely been debunked.

Show me something from a credible source. Not the usual right wing Christian links you normally provide.


No, Annee, your claim isn't proof. Claims by pro-homosexual groups are not proof. You cannot show anything that actually refutes the study, and we both know it.



posted on Nov, 14 2015 @ 09:03 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
No you stated his decision was supported by the data which it isn't.

You also said his decision would be right if supported by the data.. Again this is wrong unless the data stated that all gay parents are worse than all straight parents regardless of all other circumstances.

With regard my description of the brietbart article as Transphobic I stand by that description, it makes the same arguments that homophobic commentators make about gay groups (so much so that if any other source I would assume a Poe). The article is also completely irrelevant to this discussion.


No, I said if he used that study, and if his decision was based on it, then it wold be right. We don't know what study he used, last time I checked. I also stated that he seems to have some issues, and thus could also have made the decision out of personal bias. I stated that we need to wait for all of the facts, before stating an opinion on what he did.

If the data isn't clear, then a judge has to decide based on what he has, and some personal judgment will come into play. When grown children from such households state that they have problems as a result, in a large study with good procedures, that is a legitimate concern. before assuming a situation that isn't the norm is best for a child, some serious, unbiased study needs to be done.

Calling anyone "phobic" that disagrees is lame, and if you continue, I won't bother responding.



posted on Nov, 14 2015 @ 11:28 PM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Annee
They have definitely been debunked.

Show me something from a credible source. Not the usual right wing Christian links you normally provide.


No, Annee, your claim isn't proof. Claims by pro-homosexual groups are not proof. You cannot show anything that actually refutes the study, and we both know it.


Prove this new study debunking Regnerus is a pro-homosexual group.

It is clear who funded Regnerus and told him what results they wanted.

You haven't read the data, comparison of the two reports, and why Regnerus is debunked ---- have you?


edit on 15-11-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 07:16 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Annee
They have definitely been debunked.

Show me something from a credible source. Not the usual right wing Christian links you normally provide.


No, Annee, your claim isn't proof. Claims by pro-homosexual groups are not proof. You cannot show anything that actually refutes the study, and we both know it.


Prove this new study debunking Regnerus is a pro-homosexual group.

It is clear who funded Regnerus and told him what results they wanted.

You haven't read the data, comparison of the two reports, and why Regnerus is debunked ---- have you?



I am not playing the "my study is less biased that your study" game with you. We both know we aren't ever going to agree, so there is no point.



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

In other word, you cannot do it. You're right about one thing though... there's no point with you.



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 08:21 PM
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The info the judge used was most likely Regnerus study.

It's like the "holy grail" for the Religious Right.

Regnerus himself acknowledged his study was not what he claimed. But, the Religious Right quickly "adopted" him as their poster boy, feeding both his ego and bank account. And he ate it up.

It's hard to tell who uses whom more. The Religious Right using Regnerus or Regnerus using the Religious Right.



REGNERUS: I got taken to task for leaning on young adults’ assessments of their parents’ relationships. I didn’t ask them whether they thought their mom was a lesbian or if their dad was gay. Because, in part, self-identity is a different kind of thing than behavior, and lot of people weren’t “out” in that era. I think we can all think of moms and dads when we were growing up that we either knew or suspected were gay or lesbian, but never “came out of the closet,” so to speak. So, I didn’t want to make the assumption that these young adults would identify their parents as gay or lesbian, so I kept the focus on relationship behavior. […]. thinkprogress.org...

edit on 15-11-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 08:19 PM
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UPDATE

Antigay Utah Judge Is Off Lesbian Parenting Case



The Utah judge who last week ordered that a foster child be taken away from a lesbian couple, then reversed his decision, is now off the case. “Seventh District Juvenile Judge Scott Johansen signed an order Monday referring all pending matters in the case to the presiding judge of the district, Judge Mary Manley,” The Salt Lake Tribune reports.


www.advocate.com...
edit on 16-11-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Thanks for keeping us Updated Annee



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 09:03 PM
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a reply to: Annee

That's great. This story had a happy ending!



posted on Nov, 16 2015 @ 09:12 PM
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I like that each time something like this happens, it shows the direction society is moving.

There are still setbacks here and there, but they will eventually lose, and Equality will prevail.



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