European Migration Crisis thread

I wondered whether it might be a good idea to create a new thread where people can discuss the ongoing European Migration Crisis. I know many have been creating posts in relation to the unfolding crisis in Europe (not just me!) and want to be able to discuss and share information but also understand that if this doesn't affect your Country directly it can become boring. I can remember a couple of years ago when nearly every thread was in relation to Ebola or ISIS and I agree it is off putting to new ATS members or people who aren't directly affected by the issues. However, as this crisis isn't going to go away anytime soon and is unfolding on a daily basis I thought it would be good idea to create this thread so people who feel they are being directly affected have somewhere to discuss their worries and concerns without aggravating members who just aren't interested, it will also stop new threads being made constantly on the same subject. What do people think?

I will start the thread by posting a source that shows there has been riots in Calais for a third night. This has hardly appeared in any of the British newspapers however, a friend of mine has just come back from France this morning and had to travel through Calais, she said things are getting really out of hand and there were large groups of migrants playing cat and mouse with the Police. I went on to French media to see if anything was mentioned there and it was. The source is here:

www.france24.com...

I have also posted the front page of the French news because it also refers to a terrorist plot that has been foiled and touches on the fact that a couple of hundred people who went to fight with ISIS have now returned to France.

www.france24.com...

My concern with Calais is this has been going on for a long time and our Government said they were going to put in effective measures to deal with the security aspect, as a lot of these migrants were making it through on lorries etc in the Summer www.bbc.co.uk...

They have spent a fortune putting up fencing etc and yet this still hasn't helped and the numbers and the violence seem to be escalating if anything. A lot of the people in these camps are failed asylum seekers or economic migrants (there are a very small number who are genuine refugees from Syria). The problem France has it can't return them because a lot have destroyed their papers and their host Countries won't accept them back. I think this will probably have been discussed at the meeting yesterday when all the heads of the EU States met as a lot of these migrants are from Africa.

I worry though that if the security constraints put in place aren't stopping the escalating violence how Calais is going to deal with this if the numbers carry on rising as people who are now on their way across Europe make their way to Calais with the UK as their preferred destination.

a reply to: anxiouswens

It's all being orchestrated by those at the very top. Same thing happened in the US at the Mexican border with immigrants from central America last year (2 years ago now? My memory is fuzzy) - it was orchestrated by the same folks here, and it was a testing ground for the larger "flood" of immigrants in EU - that's my theory anyway








(^If Putin Retired and Decided to Emigrate)

I know a lot of Americans keep equating it to the Mexican border but I truly don't believe this is the same. In Europe and UK we have always had immigration. The UK's immigration has gone through the roof since free movement was introduced in the EU. We have hundreds of thousands of people coming here from the poorer Eastern European Countries. Now I think that is a similar thing to your immigration at the Mexican border. As far as I know the people you speak of coming from Mexico aren't coming into your countries with the mindset to not assimilate or integrate. They believe in democracy don't they like you? They believe in the same freedoms as you don't they? They don't expect any of you to convert to their religion. Yours is a natural border with Mexico I believe. Africa and Syria and all the other countries don't have a natural border with Europe. This is where the problems lie, because in Europe there is the freedom of movement which is supposed to be for Europeans. Before the freedom of movement was bought in there is no way on earth these migrants would have got any further than Greece. In fact, because the UK isn't signed up to the "no borders" policy we have to show our passports to travel to the EU and go through the necessary security checks. These people coming into Europe aren't showing paperwork in the majority of cases because they have destroyed it and some are refusing to be fingerprinted. Prior to freedom of movement the external borders to each Country would have been protected. Those borders aren't there any more and that is why one by one EU Countries are closing their borders. I see Sweden is the latest Country to temporarily close their borders because they just aren't coping with the sheer numbers. They are saying they are running out of accommodation. This madness needs to be stopped. There was the meeting yesterday to try and do some kind of deal with Africa so they will start taking some of the economic migrants backs. We will have to see what happens.a reply to: FamCore

a reply to: anxiouswens

(there are a very small number who are genuine refugees from Syria)

Oh yah? According to my screens the most refugees are coming from Syria, and Iraq.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: anxiouswens
The problem France has it can't return them because a lot have destroyed their papers and their host Countries won't accept them back.

I hear that a lot and I am not buying it. If the home countries refuse to take their own people back, there are retaliatory measures that could be taken: break diplomatic relations, end all aid, cut trade ties, etc. But of course they don't do that. And for the problem of discarded passports you simply jail the invader until he tells you where he is from.

Ok so you seem to be spreading intentional untruths.

so first, can you please provide your sources regarding the fact that -

"A lot of the people in these camps are failed asylum seekers or economic migrants (there are a very small number who are genuine refugees from Syria)"

Seriously i would like to see these figures that prove it.

Next you say Europe however you have not mentioned any other EU countries and how they are dealing with it only France, and purely as a route to talk about how you feel it effects the UK.

Next i would like you to show me the figures that immigration has gone through the roof, not opinion but figures, and then can you provide what percentage that has increased since free movement, and then a further figure that shows how much of the immigration is offset by emigration by British citizens?


it seems to me that you may be a little Xenophobic (i may be wrong) however judging by some of the other commenter's in this thread i think i may be right.


i looks forward to your sources facts and figures

There isn't just me posting on this subject there are lots of other people here on ATS who have the same concerns as me. The purpose of creating this thread is for the reasons you have just said so numerous threads don't have to be created on the same subject. I am not forcing you to read my threads. If something doesn't interest me I don't read it. Why would the mods get rid of this thread I am not saying anything hateful, I am stating my views. Or is it just you would rather people like me are shut down, silenced because it doesn't reflect your views. We do have something called freedom of speech you know!a reply to: liteonit6969

a reply to: liteonit6969

I too am sick of the irrational threads posted, pushing fear and promoting the exaggerated moral panics fabricated by the media.

I've said it before, I'll say it again...

There are rational ways to discuss immigration - but if you're after stars there's no place for rationality.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
There isn't just me posting on this subject there are lots of other people here on ATS who have the same concerns as me. The purpose of creating this thread is for the reasons you have just said so numerous threads don't have to be created on the same subject. I am not forcing you to read my threads. If something doesn't interest me I don't read it. Why would the mods get rid of this thread I am not saying anything hateful, I am stating my views. Or is it just you would rather people like me are shut down, silenced because it doesn't reflect your views. We do have something called freedom of speech you know!a reply to: liteonit6969

You are actually stating your views but suggesting they are fact by providing information without sources, so saying things about the immigration going through the roof, or the people in the camps not being refugees but providing no sources, which i am sure is against ATS policy

a reply to: anxiouswens

I'm an Irish man born in the UK as part of Europe. I kindly ask you to stop putting your BS rhetoric, fear mongering propaganda onto our head.

Thanks for keeping us informed daily about the apocalyptic issues going on in europe, i cant wait for the end of europe day.

Do you have an eta yet, must be happening soon right.

Fail

a reply to: anxiouswens

The problem is, the mainstay of ATS are able to consider both sides of a story, then, using peer reviewed researched or trusted sources (as trusted as possible) an argument for both sides is debated by those for and against.

In these cases the first step, your sources, are known tabloid truth stretchers and fear mongerers - they are the exact thing we try and avoid on here. It's at that point the whole system falls to pieces. So whilst there ARE people starring your threads and posts -Do you see any of the long standing members and rational thinkers agreeing with your tabloid nonsense?

You're taking all that makes a good thinker and pushing it to the bottom then covering it with crap - this is then getting to the front page - WHY? Because you are using the same tactics the horrible media use.

So yes, immigration causes poverty, crime etc but let's talk about it properly, like intelligent adults.

I mean man, someone on one of your threads was disgusted because an asylum seeker had a mobile phone! What if that asylum seeker was employed as a teacher and could afford a phone before his house was destroyed!

i expect yo are getting all your sources together.

as such i shall wait a little longer

a reply to: liteonit6969

You should focus on the thread and NOT the member creating the thread.

I don't see fear mongering in the OPs thread. Sudden Migration of a mass of people from their mother country to another country is concerning, and creates many post worthy concerns, IMO.

Are you saying these riots aren't happening? I'm sure there will be many people from the UK who will be along later who can tell you categorically these riots are happening The fact that someone posted a comment about a mobile phone is not my responsibility. I saw a thread yesterday where mobile phones were being discussed but it wasn't my thread and even if it was what concern is that to you? I have created this thread so people who are being affected by what is happening in Europe are allowed to air their concerns and so there are not multiple posts of different members. It would probably be even better if there was an actual forum. I don't really care what your beliefs are. I am not forcing you to agree with my beliefs. If you don't like the fact that someone is moaning about a mobile phone then don't read the thread. You are free, you have freedoms, like I do! I don't necessarily believe lots of things that are discussed on here but that doesn't mean I have the right to try and shut someone down who does believe those things. I am acting within the terms and conditions of ATS and as such have done nothing wrong. I could say you seem to pop up everywhere. You never share any sources and say everything is propaganda. I tend to just skip ahead because its the same old lines. So next!a reply to: and14263

originally posted by: GonzoSinister
.

Next i would like you to show me the figures that immigration has gone through the roof, not opinion but figures, and then can you provide what percentage that has increased since free movement, and then a further figure that shows how much of the immigration is offset by emigration by British citizens?

Apples and oranges. Well skilled, working people or rich retirees leave, low skilled, middle easterners arrive, if anything it exacerbates the situation rather than offsetting it.

a reply to: anxiouswens

Skip ahead then buddy, that's probably how you've gotten so far down the line (50 aren't you?) and are still buying into this crap.

I will continue to bring rationality to your threads - because you can't.

For the record, I'm against immigration but I'm also against blindly following what I'm told to. I usually end these posts by stating how I respect the opinion of the other member but still disagree - on this occasion I do not respect the poster.

I love the folks that try to personalize and dismiss what is going on in Europe. I have spoke to several friends who have family in Austria and Germany and their families are telling them that it is a big deal and not in a good way.

Are you pro immigration folks saying these muslims aren't raping women, aren't expecting financial assistance, aren't displacing citizens from their homes?

Call me Xenophobic is you will but nothing good will come from this. The muslim immigrants will not assimilate, will expect the respective host countries and citizens to change their way of life to accommodate. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

News flash Sweden is experiencinga rape epidemic and guess who the culprit is? MUSLIMS! Wake up!

a reply to: SprocketUK

i would like that to be true, however when i was reading various statistics it was suggesting that although a slightly higher amount of people immigrated here (the UK) than emigrated, the amount who were retiring and leaving the UK to the amount that were skilled workers coming into the UK made the difference in the grand scheme of things negligible.

exactly why i asked for sources that went towards the OP's opinion and didn't cite any facts regarding what i had read.