Site-4 Papoose Mountain Does Exist

This is from a former Dreamland employee who retired in 1986. I found his email address and figured I'd give it a shot and ask him some non-specific questions. Here it is:

To answer your question yes i have been to papoose mtn. several times no i was never transported on a high speed under ground rail sys. we drove there in air force vehicles with a security police escort and the reason for the escort is because we were usually carrying classified manuels.as for my security clearence it was top secret you had to have at least that in order to be assigned to dream land.as for aliens visiting earth well, lets just say i keep a relatively open mind, how about you??







Mod Edit: to remoce CAPS from thread title.

[edit on 5-1-2005 by kinglizard]

Hmm...I'm surprised he'd say just "top secret". There are so many forms of this, SCI (Sensitive Compartmentalized Information), for example, which is bound to be a requirement for that base. The escort idea also doesn't seem to make sense. They were already on one of the world's most top secret bases, a simple bus would suffice.

Not discounting the story here, and I believe in S-4 for many reasons, even dug up some great sat photos and stories on a recent thread, but I'm just pointing out some possible problems here...

Ask him if S-4 had a nickname that he was aware of. Also, ask him the nickname for the Snack Bar on the base... You may also want to have him clarify his security clearance, exactly, to better see if he's telling the truth here....

This is probably a hoax but if it aint this is big. Ask him how big the location is.

This is not a hoax, I would never do that. I've been studying this subject too long to discredit it in any way. I have emailed him with those questions. I'll post what he replies ASAP.

Do you know what his job was? Was he a government employee or a contracted civilian? Is there anything he doesn't have an open mind about, and if so, what?

Hey Gazrock, you mentioned the snack bar and nickname. Is this a question you know the answer to and await his response to validate his claim, or are you just curious?

I look forward to hearing more about this.

Hey Gazrock, you mentioned the snack bar and nickname. Is this a question you know the answer to and await his response to validate his claim, or are you just curious?

Uhmm...no comment.

Kidding.

In a way, yes.

As I've mentioned in other posts, I'm a Lockheed brat. One of my good friends as a kid in Saudi, his dad once worked for Lockheed in Area 51 (granted, he was in about 4th grade at the time). He didn't know the name of the project, but from his descriptions, I can now deduce it was the Nighthawk. Anyhow, my buddy mentioned a small base in the mountains they called a particular name, that was just a few miles from the base. He had never been there, just heard about it. At the time I heard this, (I was in 7th grade, as was he then), I didn't know anything about Area 51, and only a little about UFOs...so I didn't make the connection. Indeed, he referred to the base as most Lockheed kids did, by location, so he called it the "Groom Lake" base (but usually "Groom" for short), just as we referred to the current base where we were as "Riyadh".

So, I'm curious to see if the nickname he gives, is the same as the one I heard. As for the Snack Bar, there is a kind of naming convention to these usually in Lockheed residential compounds (sometimes), so I'm curious...(plus it might make him think that someone who's actually been there is asking, so it's really just icing...hehe).

He may not respond for a few days, but I'll post his reply ASAP.

"To answer your question yes i have been to papoose mtn. several times no i was never transported on a high speed under ground rail sys. we drove there in air force vehicles with a security police escort and the reason for the escort is because we were usually carrying classified manuels.as for my security clearence it was top secret you had to have at least that in order to be assigned to dream land.as for aliens visiting earth well, lets just say i keep a relatively open mind, how about you??"

i don't want to come on like the Grammar Police or anything, but I'd think that any person with a special access clearance and holding some kind of sensitive and (I assume) responsible job would know basic high school spelling and grammar. This person does not.

I have carried classified documents a lot of different places, both on and off a secure 'campus', and I never had an escort of any kind. Admittedly, I had to sign for the documents, watch a security person bag and tie them, sign the front tape, and sign then in again when I got to the place I was taking them to -- but no "escort".

I don't know about the entire thing, but I think the individual himself is bogus.

An interesting angle, but to be honest, my father is an awful speller, but he does work on the Raptor daily, hehe...

So that may not automatically discount it. I do, like you though, have an issue with the "escort" idea... However, in the case of documents of an alien-related nature, I could see them having along a Blue Team member as an MP guard to make sure the one carrying them doesn't go anywhere...

Can't wait to see those answers...

If he's Lockheed, I'm surprised he didn't use the words "Eyes Only" or "EO" documents instead of Top Secret. Additionally, LM employees are incredibly tight-lipped if they work in any white projects or black holes. Either he's pulling your chain, or (from what I understand) is in rather severe violation of company policy, and may find himself silenced pretty quick. LM has a history of dealing with talkers. They don't die, or get concrete shoes or anything of the sort, they just suddenly get real real quiet and never want to talk to the person who asked the questions again. Who knows what they do, but it's extremely effective.

Now, in the guy's defense...
As for the escort, it could be a recent security measure, or it could just be that they were more afraid of him running off with the documents than they were of him being attacked.

The spelling... heh... my father occupies...a very interesting position at LM, and the spelling and grammar were not unlike his own in emails. I myself am a technician doing support for a number of high profile engineers in the defense and aerospace industry, and some of them can't manage to string together a coherent sentance, much less be bothered with spelling and grammar... literary acumen is simply not a requirement of most jobs, even those requiring sensitive information.

However, I expect that you either will not get a reply, or if you do, that there will be further evidence of a hoax. As always, though, I remain open to the idea that I'm wrong.

The spelling... heh... my father occupies...a very interesting position at LM, and the spelling and grammar were not unlike his own in emails. I myself am a technician doing support for a number of high profile engineers in the defense and aerospace industry, and some of them can't manage to string together a coherent sentance, much less be bothered with spelling and grammar... literary acumen is simply not a requirement of most jobs, even those requiring sensitive information

I wonder if our fathers know each other! Who knows, maybe they even pass each other on the old retina scanner every day!!! My father works on the Raptor project at LM in Marietta, GA. Of course, that's about all I know as far as what he does there, hehe.... To be perfectly honest, I don't even know his exact security clearance type.

The one he's talking to, however, may not be a LM employee... Though, as I understand it, LM has the largest number of employees in the residential compound, Boeing, the Navy, the Air Force, NASA, and of course EG&G and others also use various parts of the facility at various times...

Other questions to ask...who did the guy work for? which company runs Papoose?

I'm surprised he didn't use the words "Eyes Only" or "EO" documents instead of Top Secret

He said his security clearance was Top Secret. Hell, a janitor on that base would have that most likely. His only reference to the documents were that they were "classified." I do agree though, that EO would have been more believable, but it's not unreasonable to believe that he was simply being more general with terminology. I'm willing to keep an open mind, but not a blind one...

something ive learned over the years to pick up women, be very vague. Go to a bar in a black suit, tie, good haircut, so on and so forth, if someone asks what you do, id say that i do contracts, import/export sort of stuff. Flash the cash like most grandmothers show the pics of their new grandchild, and never say what you do, other than contract work, import/exports. Now that youre wondering what the heck that has to do with what were discussin, here it is. vague is intriguing, as well as misleading is intriguing. I never lied about what i did, i was under a military contract(i was enlisted), and we were preparing and receiving gear from panama prior to us going there to train before Ft Sherman closed. maybe this guy is dong something similar. using terms most civilians would recognize, being elusive because he doesnt know the answers, but wants to feel important. Gazrok said before that most likely the janitors have Top Secret clearances, i wouldnt doubt it, I had a PSD clearance, sounds official, right? all it means is they didnt think id go nuts and kill Clinton when at the white house on pretty boy missions. Everyone wants to feel important at some point, my guess is, and im not going to stay with it entirely, i may be wrong, but...hes probably either a total fraud, or just being REALLY vague and misleading to feel important. Tell me guys, youve never done or at least thought about doing it with a woman? some guys would rather feel like a big shot with many, than a big shot with a hottie.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I wonder if our fathers know each other!

Who knows, maybe they even pass each other on the old retina scanner every day!!! My father works on the Raptor project at LM in Marietta, GA. Of course, that's about all I know as far as what he does there, hehe.... To be perfectly honest, I don't even know his exact security clearance type.

Mine alternates between Fort Worth and Japan. He "did some work" on the F-16, JSF, and some others that it's too early in the morning to remember. They might know each other though, cause I think he's been to the Marietta plant at least once. As far as I know he's never been to The Ranch, but then again, if he had gone, I'd never know. Like most LM employees, he's as tight-lipped as they come. He does, however, heavily heavily encourage me to specialize in physics and quantum physics, so I can go work with him someday. Apparently I've got a pretty exciting job waiting for me, if I ever get the required papers... that'd be cool.

Originally posted by Gazrok
...I do agree though, that EO would have been more believable, but it's not unreasonable to believe that he was simply being more general with terminology. I'm willing to keep an open mind, but not a blind one...

Yeah, that's a good point. I dumb down my own job all the time...
Not that it needs dumbing down any further than it already is.

Originally posted by question_reality
something ive learned over the years to pick up women, be very vague. Go to a bar in a black suit, tie, good haircut, so on and so forth, if someone asks what you do, id say that i do contracts, import/export sort of stuff. Flash the cash like most grandmothers show the pics of their new grandchild, and never say what you do, other than contract work...

...Tell me guys, youve never done or at least thought about doing it with a woman? some guys would rather feel like a big shot with many, than a big shot with a hottie.

LL! Yeah, man. I've done that. Heck, I've even gone so far as to fake my own demise, but that was to get rid of her, rather than pick her up. Ah...fun times. Fun times...

I believe he's worked on parts of the JSF project as well (likely with the autopilot systems), so it's possible. Doesn't seem like they'd have done more than shake hands though perhaps, hehe...

Good luck with the future career....the pay is pretty damn good. Wish I had things to do over again, I would have likely gone that route...I was just so flip-floppy as to what I'd do in college....

Originally posted by Gazrok
I believe he's worked on parts of the JSF project as well (likely with the autopilot systems), so it's possible. Doesn't seem like they'd have done more than shake hands though perhaps, hehe...

Well, it's possible. U2U me if you're interested in finding out, and I'll send back my email addy. I don't really want to divulge much info publicly.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Good luck with the future career....the pay is pretty damn good. Wish I had things to do over again, I would have likely gone that route...I was just so flip-floppy as to what I'd do in college....

Thank you. I'm still flip-flopping, myself, but I've got less than a year to decide... then my fiance finishes up her college, and will be working full time for me to go back to college. We're sort of trading the position of breadwinner, so we can both be educated enough to support ourselves in the event I am assassinated or something.

[edit on 1/5/2005 by thelibra]

Well folks, here it is. The evidence that Site-4 Papoose Mountain exists. I received a FOIA request final response in the mail today from the Department of the Air Force. It took them from August 23, 2004 to Jan 6, 2005 to respond. I asked for information, documents, and/or records having to do with Area S-4 Papoose Mountain. This is what they had to say:

As for Item 4 of your request:

The Air Force can neither confirm nor deny the existence or absence of records responsive to your particular Freedom of Information Act request. Any other response would reveal currently and classified information or factual circumstances, which are exempt from disclosure by regulation and Executive Order 12958.


I don't know about you, but this is proof for me that Area S-4 Papoose Mountain exists...

Unfortunately though, you would get the same response if you asked for information about the Area 51 complex. Since S-4 is technically part of the same testing area, it isn't surprising that you'd get this answer whether an installation was there or not on/in Papoose.

What it IS proof of, is that there is something to hide at Papoose. Now, whether it's top secret radar/microwave units, or a base housing back-engineered UFOs, well, it doesn't really help us much on that front. Still, something is better than nothing.

When come the leter from your surse (sorse) that had been at s4??
Did he know what was going on?

My mom used to work for LM aswell, I would always ask her about the Nellis compound, but she would always would say that "she had to sign papers when she left that wouldnt let her talk about it.) She would fly out to Nellis Air Force Base alot too as i remember (i was very young at the time.)

Dident she said a thing from the base??? Try to ask her things about the base :p