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Drone Possibly Caused Police Horse Panic Death

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posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 04:03 AM
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Fimber, 14, died after an incident at Carr Gate police headquarters near Wakefield on 15 October.
CCTV footage showed the horse, who had been with the force for 11 years, looking "spooked" in the paddock before vaulting a fence and colliding with a wooden post.
Police have appealed to the owner of a drone found nearby to come forward.


Det Supt Simon Atkinson said: "There is a possibility that Fimber was reacting to the drone landing nearby or being close to him.
"We know he was used to the helicopter taking off and landing nearby and by the nature of his training would be used to loud noises.
"This tends to suggest it was something unusual that caused him to react."

www.bbc.co.uk...

Let's hope the violent element at protests can't read. Because if they read the news they're going to be flying drones straight at police horses. Ghastly. The V masks at the Million Mask March upset the horses. Now they have to contend with something that appears to them as the biggest, meanest insect in the history of the planet.

It looks like someone had a little spy on the police and it ended with a horse killing itself in an attempt to escape from the unusual object. It's the unusual that scares them, especially when there may be an ancient, subconscious memory stirred. A flexible, pulsating water pipe pumping water out of a hole in the road can seem to a horse like a massive snake. A drone can easily appear to them as a giant insect.


Even though bot flies cannot bite, horses fear them. Fright and nuisance may bring about indirect damage to horses by making them unruly and difficult to handle. Irritated and frightened horses may damage themselves, equipment or fences.

www.horsearmor.net...
edit on 11 11 2015 by Kester because: remove word

edit on 11 11 2015 by Kester because: link issues

edit on 11 11 2015 by Kester because: change word

edit on 11 11 2015 by Kester because: spacing




posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 04:21 AM
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So the police want whoever was flying a drone near them to turn themselves in, so they can lay some stupid arbitrary charge down on them? But if they flew a drone through your window and paralyzed you with it, they'd blame it on it being just part of 'public safety', deal with it. /s



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 05:28 AM
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a reply to: boncho

Turn themselves in if it's a tragic mistake.
Or not if it's a dry run for the next protests.
edit on 11 11 2015 by Kester because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 05:32 AM
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Now drones might become a standard part of training for police horses, race horses, and those rides around Central Park in New York. The wild west was never like this, or the Indians would have used drones on the calvary. The beat goes on.
edit on 11-11-2015 by Aleister because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 07:58 AM
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It's only a matter of time before a drone operator flies up to, say, a bird nest to take pictures, and gets arrested for harassing wildlife. I'd like to photo some deer but might get busted for same.
sad to say, we'll probly need rules etc for the new tech, just as we needed all sorts of rules for the road for the automobile.
I would think a city horse would have a more stable temperment (pardon the pun).



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 10:02 AM
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This is a training and animal selection issue, period.

I see similar kinds of situations occuring with their detection canines as well. Many Police Departments, these days, don't train their animals properly and often do not take care of the animals day-to-day needs correctly. Police Departments need to start spending more money and time, improving their animal handler training methods, by bringing in "consultants' that are outside their usual core of preferred contract trainers. The people that trained this horse made a huge mistake, in both selection of the animal and giving too little exposure to potential environmental conditions. But, I'll bet they were a "preferred supplier" and beat out a much more qualified trainer. The reality is, once that consultant had the contract in hand and selected this specific horse for Mounted duty, there way NO WAY, after the fact, that they were going to pull the horse from training, lose money and say, "he may not be FIT for this kind of work".

With all that said, I feel bad for the horse and its keeper, but this is a sign that this particular horse should have never been assigned to Mounted Police duty.

Police Departments these days can't ever hire good people, that properly interact with the general public, do you really expect them to do a better job when selecting animals to do police work, under the contracting guidelines of "lowest bid" or "best value"?
edit on 11-11-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: boohoo

Horses have been trained for many thousands of years. Drones are very recent. No one yet knows if a horse can be trained to ignore drones in their many forms. Next thing will be drones with lasers mounted flashing into the horses eyes. There is no way training can keep up at this point.

Crowd control just got a whole lot harder.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 10:41 AM
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originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: boohoo

Horses have been trained for many thousands of years. Drones are very recent. No one yet knows if a horse can be trained to ignore drones in their many forms. Next thing will be drones with lasers mounted flashing into the horses eyes. There is no way training can keep up at this point.

Crowd control just got a whole lot harder.


Yes, horses have been trained for thousands of years and when trained for war, they could handle stuff like this. Apparently not so much today.

So, you somehow think cannon or mortar fire is less distressing to a horse than a flying drone? As if a drone flying nearby a police horse, while in its stable, is more stressful than being a cavalry horse, on the front, during the Civil War and WWI.

My statement still stands, Police Departments these days can't ever hire good people, to work for them, that know how to properly interact with the general public, do you really expect Police Departments to do a better job when selecting animals to do police work and hiring trainers to prepare them for unusual conditions, while operating under the contracting guidelines of "lowest bid" or "best value"?

The answer is, NO, they cannot.
edit on 11-11-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 10:47 AM
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originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: boohoo

Horses have been trained for many thousands of years. Drones are very recent. No one yet knows if a horse can be trained to ignore drones in their many forms. Next thing will be drones with lasers mounted flashing into the horses eyes. There is no way training can keep up at this point.

Crowd control just got a whole lot harder.


A horse can be trained to not fear just about anything. But the time has to be taken to go through the desensitation process.

Look at the famous high diving horses, or stunt horses that will jump through a sugar glass window, or run through flames.

This was probably a good indicator to the trainers of something they forgot to work on and should from now on.

But also, a horse does not react the same to stimuli when under saddle, as they do out in pasture.
A horse that trusts it's rider will take the cues from him to determine whether things are to be feared or not.
They learn to control their first impulses long enough to recieve that input from the human.
That is the very first base of training.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: Bluesma
A horse can be trained to not fear just about anything. But the time has to be taken to go through the desensitation process.

Look at the famous high diving horses, or stunt horses that will jump through a sugar glass window, or run through flames.

This was probably a good indicator to the trainers of something they forgot to work on and should from now on.

But also, a horse does not react the same to stimuli when under saddle, as they do out in pasture.
A horse that trusts it's rider will take the cues from him to determine whether things are to be feared or not.
They learn to control their first impulses long enough to recieve that input from the human.
That is the very first base of training.


I agree, but this particular horse would have never have been put on the front lines, during the Civil War or WWI, it would have been immediately sent to the rear to become a draft horse, providing logistical support. The sole reason it was assigned to this "front line" job today, can be almost entirely attributed to modern "contracting methods".

Neither the horse, nor the trainer, were qualified for the jobs they were asked to do.
edit on 11-11-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 10:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: boohoo
This is a training and animal selection issue, period.

I see similar kinds of situations occuring with their detection canines as well. Many Police Departments, these days, don't train their animals properly and often do not take care of the animals day-to-day needs correctly. Police Departments need to start spending more money and time, improving their animal handler training, by bringing in "consultants' that are outside their usual core of preferred contract trainers. The people that trained this horse made a huge mistake, in both selection of the animal and giving too little exposure to potential environmental conditions. But, I'll bet they were a "preferred supplier" and beat out a much more qualified trainer. The reality is, once that consultant had the contract in hand and selected this specific horse for Mounted duty, there way NO WAY, after the fact, that they were going to pull the horse from training, lose money and say, "he may not be FIT for this kind of work".

With all that said, I feel bad for the horse and its keeper, but this is a sign that this horse should have never been assigned to Mounted Police duty.

Police Departments these days can't ever hire good people, that properly interact with the general public, do you really expect them to do a better job when selecting animals to do police work, under the contracting guidelines of "lowest bid" or "best value"?


This 100%. Sad story, but this didnt happen to a police horse. It happened to a horse some a$$hat was trying to force to do police work.

Maybe this ties in to the other story about UK police horses not reactng the same to protest/crowd duty anymore. Mad Horse disease anyone? Whats the low bid supplier of police horse food using?



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: boohoo

There's a big difference between them getting used to bangs and flashes and you getting into their mind.

Since the use of horses to control British protests is now obsolete I'll spill the beans. I told a serving mounted policewoman to pass the message on and if she didn't, too bad.

They don't like ghost horses.

Make a giant pantomime ghost horse and move it spookily at the horses. The whole line of police horses will easily be made to bolt as a herd. Numerous injuries to protestors, police and innocent bystanders. Not good.

The whole thing with the drones is the insect association. A primal feeling comes over them and they can't help but respond.

Get inside their minds and they'll flee. Camels have been used to panic cavalry horses that weren't used to them. A night attack panicked the Scottish cavalry and sent them trampling over the Scottish infantry at the Battle of Dunbar.

At Little Bighorn, "Some 7th Cavalry horses bolted, balked, even took their luckless riders straight into the Indian encampment." www.historynet.com...

I'm sure there are many historical accounts of horses panicking in warfare. They aren't programmable machines. They react, however thoroughly trained.
edit on 11 11 2015 by Kester because: (no reason given)

edit on 11 11 2015 by Kester because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 11:40 AM
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originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: boohoo

There's a big difference between them getting used to bangs and flashes and you getting into their mind.

Since the use of horses to control British protests is now obsolete I'll spill the beans. I told a serving mounted policewoman to pass the message on and if she didn't, too bad.

They don't like ghost horses.

Make a giant pantomime ghost horse and move it spookily at the horses. The whole line of police horses will easily be made to bolt as a herd. Numerous injuries to protestors, police and innocent bystanders. Not good.

The whole thing with the drones is the insect association. A primal feeling comes over them and they can't help but respond.

Get inside their minds and they'll flee. Camels have been used to panic cavalry horses that weren't used to them. A night attack panicked the Scottish cavalry and sent them trampling over the Scottish infantry at the Battle of Dunbar.

At Little Bighorn, "Some 7th Cavalry horses bolted, balked, even took their luckless riders straight into the Indian encampment." www.historynet.com...

I'm sure there are many historical accounts of horses panicking in warfare. They aren't programmable machines. They react, however thoroughly trained.


Are you a horse trainer? What are you basing this "insect association" idea on? Same goes for the Camel vs WAR Horse anecdote (I hope you are not referencing a videogame BTW).

Preparing a horse to charge into "mortar fire" is not merely about exposing them to "bangs and flashes" (a modern police horse, yes, an actual WAR horse of yesteryear, NO). That training required using some methods that would be considered "inhumane" today, but were vital in preparing a horse for the real battlefield.

Your "ghost horse" comments is interesting, but the Custer, 7th Cavalry, example proves my point.

Custers troops and likely their horses, as well, were poorly trained, just as this PD horse was:

For Custer’s men—many of them immigrants, others inexperienced conscripts—pitting their ponderous warhorses against the Sioux was about like a bunch of pickup-driving carpenters challenging a thousand Italian and Brazilian Formula 1 aspirants to a drag race. Some 7th Cavalry horses bolted, balked, even took their luckless riders straight into the Indian encampment.
edit on 11-11-2015 by boohoo because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: boohoo


When the emperor Claudius invaded Britain in 43 A.D. he brought elephants to terrify the Britons, and camels to spook their chariot horses.
www.defensemedianetwork.com...

If it's elephants you're scaring you need burning camels. Shhhh, don't tell PETA.

"Timur had pack camels loaded with bundles of oil-soaked brushwood and straw. This was ignited, and the terrified beasts were driven toward the Indian lines. War elephants are brave, but sensible. When they see flaming camels charging at them, they get out of the way."


"Within minutes of unloading, however, there were problems. First, just the sight of camel made the horses and mules go berserk." uselessinformation.org...

" . . . their smell was different and had a tendency to frighten horses unfamiliar with the odor." armyhistory.org...

Obviously horses and camels get used to each other with time, but there is this recurring theme worldwide of horses being scared of camels and camel odour.


The insect association is logical.

"These insects are universally feared by the large mammals they depend on, so much so that the distinctive buzzing of these flies around cattle can send the animals into a blind panic where they injure themselves by running into trees, fences, and water. This behaviour is known as gadding, hence the name, gadfly." www.bookdepository.com...

I'm not a horse trainer, my horse trained me. He taught me how to negotiate traffic and dealt with threats promptly and very firmly. The only thing that surprised him was a swan. I assume he had never seen one before judging by his reaction. The unusual.

Flaming war pigs! Now that is unusual. I can't remember the last time I saw one of those. "At the Megara siege during the Diadochi wars, for example, the Megarians reportedly poured oil on a herd of pigs, set them alight, and drove them towards the enemy's massed war elephants. The elephants bolted in terror from the flaming squealing pigs.
It is for sure that many horses also panic in war situations." biology.stackexchange.com...

It seems certain the unusual has been used throughout history to panic trained war horses.

Now we've got drones. Giant warble flies with laser eyes.

The days of policing British protests with horses are over.
edit on 11 11 2015 by Kester because: change word

edit on 11 11 2015 by Kester because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 01:20 PM
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originally posted by: Kester
a reply to: boohoo


When the emperor Claudius invaded Britain in 43 A.D. he brought elephants to terrify the Britons, and camels to spook their chariot horses.
www.defensemedianetwork.com...

If it's elephants you're scaring you need burning camels. Shhhh, don't tell PETA.

"Timur had pack camels loaded with bundles of oil-soaked brushwood and straw. This was ignited, and the terrified beasts were driven toward the Indian lines. War elephants are brave, but sensible. When they see flaming camels charging at them, they get out of the way."


"Within minutes of unloading, however, there were problems. First, just the sight of camel made the horses and mules go berserk." uselessinformation.org...

" . . . their smell was different and had a tendency to frighten horses unfamiliar with the odor." armyhistory.org...

Obviously horses and camels get used to each other with time, but there is this recurring theme worldwide of horses being scared of camels and camel odour.

The insect association is logical.

"These insects are universally feared by the large mammals they depend on, so much so that the distinctive buzzing of these flies around cattle can send the animals into a blind panic where they injure themselves by running into trees, fences, and water. This behaviour is known as gadding, hence the name, gadfly." www.bookdepository.com...

I'm not a horse trainer, my horse trained me. He taught me how to negotiate traffic and dealt with threats promptly and very firmly. The only thing that surprised him was a swan. I assume he had never seen one before judging by his reaction. The unusual.

Flaming war pigs! Now that is unusual. Can't remember the last time I saw one of those. "At the Megara siege during the Diadochi wars, for example, the Megarians reportedly poured oil on a herd of pigs, set them alight, and drove them towards the enemy's massed war elephants. The elephants bolted in terror from the flaming squealing pigs.
It is for sure that many horses also panic in war situations." biology.stackexchange.com...

It seems sure the unusual has been used throughout history to panic trained war horses.

Now we've got drones. Giant warble flies with laser eyes.

The days of policing British protests with horses are over.


Ok, so you say you've owned horse, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

The US Camel Brigade story, from 1836, is about "draft horses" that were providing logistical support, encountering camels for the first time. So, it has to be discounted, as they were not hardened Cavalry Horses.

Also the other above accounts from antiquity, are still far more involved scare tactics, than a Drone buzzing by the stable and I personally do not count them as equivalent.

I still stand by my point, that this horse was not fit for Mounted Duty and was pushed into service due to contracting formalities and willful ignorance on the trainers part.



posted on Nov, 11 2015 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: boohoo

I think it was more he owned me. I was the ignorant one. We travelled together. I couldn't say I owned him.

The insect association made this an unusual case. We'll see how they get on with the drone training, V mask training and pantomime ghost horse training.

I'd like to see more references to flighty behaviour from this particular horse before condemning him as having been not fit for duty.



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