Not one bit surprising. Those who started screaming out for their perceived rights back in the sixties are the most intolerant of others' rights today.

Sweden is not America.

Good observation, Illuminati, and I wholeheartedly agree with you, but what is the point? Are you assuming that the perils we have faced are isolated?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Good observation, Illuminati, and I wholeheartedly agree with you, but what is the point? Are you assuming that the perils we have faced are isolated?

No, because we Americans are at risk of losing our basic liberties and freedoms also, like the Swedish. Our government is only more deceiving than the Swedish government.

The swedes are still disturbing.

I hear the EU will draft an anti intolerance amendment and stuff into thier constituion, making any form of hatred illegal. racial, religious, homosexual, gender. Thus, free thought is banished.

Freedom of being human will soon be illegal.

America is at one extreme, were becoming an intolerant theocracy, europe, the other extreme, killing all forms of religious and personal or politcal belief

Seems no where will have a happy medium.

Consider Europe to be a sneak preview for whats in store for America.

So, is it also going to be illegal for these alternate lifestyle folks to voice opposition to non-homosexual lifestyles or has our friend the "double standard" reared his head again? Maybe he has gotten tired of America and relocated..one can only hope.

Originally posted by dragonrider
Consider Europe to be a sneak preview for whats in store for America.

he he he funny.....That's what we say in Europe. The USA are a sneak preview for what's in store for Europe. I heard that since I'm born.

So does that give Europe something to look forward to:

In terms of becoming a socialistic state, I think it should serve as a warning for america...

I for one, love the idea that Christians will be finally forced to keep there mouths shut in public. That they will be cuturally forced to shut their doors and windows and hide and meet in secret when they want to talk their slaves language.
Keep them out of the schools, business and politics and maybe that useless religion will finally dry up and fade away.
While Im all for individual rights, I think it would be ok for the pendulem to swing back the other way for awhile.
Christians have been shouting their mouths off for 2000 years, passing judgement, making laws and killing those who disagree with them. And if the situation was reversed I'm sure they would be on the front lines fighting for my rights...they sure do now.........
Im for rounding them all up and putting them on a remote island where they can sit in judgement of each other till the end of time or their 2000 year old dead jew "savior" comes and takes them off to Disney land in the sky. With them gone mankind should finally be able to glide out from the horrible, puritanical shadow and evolve into the gods and goddess we were always meant to be.
They have had their time and now its over... I applaud Sweden's bravery. I wait with anticipation for muslims and jews to be added to the list next. Really, anyone who links an external divinity to their geneology and especially like to use that as a justifaction for war should be on the list, banned from rational scientific desicions needed to progress humanity.
Religeon, government and its followers are standing in the way of mankind's evolution.

Voice-of-Doom for years people like you have been shouting how bigioted the Christians, Jews, and Muslims are. Now you have just show who the real bigots are!!!! You are just as bigoted if not more so. So break out you brown shirt, polish up your jack boots, and relearn the "Horst Wessel Lied". If you need the words, a post can be found. You want to be properly dressed when you start shipping people off to the concentration camps.

A couple of things before we start using the "Nazi" argument and therefore render all rational discourse obsolete.
First, you stated, "for years people like you..." You dont know me so don't act like you do. If you want to debate the issues I raised then do that, but if all you can do is throw out accusatory generalizations and call me a nazi then go back to kindergarden discussion sites and leave the real debating to the adults.
Secondly, I never proposed extermination of the christians, jews or muslims... if you had bothered to actually read my post you would have seen that I supported relocation of those delusional people. I would let them practice their slave religions in the privacy of their own counrty or island. Or let them kill each other off as they have been for thousands of years. By isolating them it saves the rest of us from the collateral damage of their wars.
Third, I believe that people who practice these patriarchal religions should not be allowed to make laws or interfere in the lives of others. Why would they want to. They would be so busy trying to "convert" each other, punish each other and feeling "guilty" for their sins they wouldn't have time.
Meanwhile the rational scientific and artistic athiests could be free to lead humanity onward. We could do things like end hunger, the homeless epidemic and explore space. The arcane "judgement" laws of religion would be lifted from the soul of man and he could be free to live his life as he wants. How can you possibly argue with that jagdflieger???
What kind of nazi like you would want to keep mankind in chains like we are now???
So before you get your panties in a bundle about free speech and everyones rights remember that you wouldn't have them in a theocracy run by the religious.
As I stated before, there time is over. Had they not actged so horribly and irresponsible when they were in charge I might feel a little more lenient to include them in humanity's next evolutionary step. But their actions leave no room for compromise and they stand in the way.
Send them kisses and hugs...they won't miss you for long. Once they get their communites built and can reestablish their moral control they will be so happy condeming others and outlawing natural primate behavior that you and your simple minded liberal friends will quickly be forgotten.
When this happens jagdflieger,
I will buy you a cup of coffee, console your misguided tears and then you and I can walk together into a brave new world where I will be standing right with you to defend mankinds freedoms....but first things first....

[End Transmission]

Jag knows you as I or anyone else here knows you, and that is by what you type. That is very, very childish to type a bunch of bigoted, intolerant garbage and then when someone calls you out for what you are, you scream "Shut up! You don't know me!"
Yes, he does, or else you are a liar and are intentionally misrepresenting to us your true character.

Your lack of understanding of Christianity is overwhelming, as well, and your lack of knowledge of how without the Judeo-Christian belief the U.S. would not have been as it was. Thanks to the anti-Judeo-Christian forces, it is becoming as it is.

VD, I understand why you have a red warn under your pseudonym. Intolerance is allways starting with peoples like you. It's your right to don't believe in God and/or Jesus Christ, as it's our right to believe in Them.

Also, why are you specificaly against the Christians, and not the Budhist, the Muslims or any others religions ?

P.S : One again, we're moving away from the topic subject. Thanks VD !

[Edited on 17-6-2003 by ultra_phoenix]

Reminds me of Ali G when he was interviewing an anti-gay protester.

"do u8 ave anyfink to say to da gay comunity ?" asked Ali

"Yeah dont be f******g gay" was the answer!

I did include muslims. I didn't include buddists becuase I can't think of any recent wars they've started. They tend to leave others alone and live peacefully, but if they didn't.........
Secondly, you use words like bigotry and racism but you don't specifically say how they apply to me. Im talking about relocation and exclusion from evolutionary progress. They are perfectly welcome to practice their praying and other vices in the confines of an isolated enviroment. It is not about intolerance, its about trimming the fat on the wheel of progress. They can have all the rights they give themselves in their little world.
Thirdly Thomas Crown...I completely understand the judeo-christian mythology....thats the reason I posted my response here in the first place. Perhaps the U.S should be the designated area and you and your attack dog can take the first watch.
Finally, the "warning" label means nothing to me. Ideas do.

[Edited on 17-6-2003 by Voice_of Doom]

Voice of Doom, I grew up an atheist. I did not come to know Christ until a few years ago. However, I did not need any philosophy books to determine the hopelessness of life if there is no God. If there is no God and no eternal substance to man, then why bother. You are better off spending you life in pure pleasure. Altruism in an atheist is a contradiction. Why spend your entire life putting your fanny on the line and sometimes facing death in some rotten third world country if there is no pay back for you? A Christian has no problem with this. It is for the Glory of God. A moslem has no problem with this. It is for the Glory of Allah. They know or believe that there will be a day when they will be rewarded. In your view point, when your dead, your dead - that is the end. Do you really expect the atheists of the world to lead the world to this New Age of prosperity? Reread your history. Study the life of Sarte. Read his philosophy. Yes I was once an atheist and I hated to be around other atheists because all they could do is sit around and bitch about Christians. Also I never felt that my rights were ever threatened or impinged by Christians or Moslems. As I said I worked out for myself the hopelessness of this belief. When a society loses faith in an Everlasting God, it will slowly self destruct in hedonism or nilism. I just could not believe because Jesus Christ just sounded too good to be true. Fortunately, God answered my prayer one night and did give me a sign that yes He does Exist. I don't expect you to understand until you reach the Point of Despair.

Let us begin by closely examining the argument of jagdlfier. Here we go folks.....

Quote: "I did not need any philosophy books to determine the hopelessness of life if there is no God."

Answer: Wow. Said as if this is a known fact. It is because of the Christian brainwashing that you appear incapable of seeing life without a "god" as good or bad. You should try one of those "philosophy" books some time. I recomend some nietzsche and then perhaps you could behold a magnificent universe without some bumbling jehovah getting in the way.
Thinking for yourself is harder but ultimately more rewarding... I promise.

Second, "If there is no God and no eternal substance to man, then why bother."

Answer: Thats what you have to figure out man! Thats the whole point...to arrive at your own "Jerusaslem". thats the Journey, either walk it or give up and accept dogma.

Quote: "Why spend your entire life putting your fanny on the line and sometimes facing death in some rotten third world country if there is no pay back for you? "

Answer: You hit the REAL Christian motivation factor right on the head, my friend. SELF INTEREST. Whats in it for me??? Where's my reward??? I believe thats what jesus was really saying. (Sarcasm noted I hope)

Quote: "In your view point, when your dead, your dead - that is the end"

Answer: You're assuming thats my viewpoint. In fact I never even broach the subject of afterlife in these posts. I would be happy to talk about except I know I will never die...so its really moot for me to discuss

Quote:"Do you really expect the atheists of the world to lead the world to this New Age of prosperity? Reread your history. Study the life of Sarte. Read his philosophy."

Answer: What a huge assuption to make for history. While this too big a statment to break down in one paragraph, I can say for sure that Christians have stood in the way of most progressive "truths" since their inception. See Giadorno Bruno's death by fire, current debate on genetic advances and Galileo's recantation as examples. The hard truth to accept is that EVERY NEW INNOVATION HAS BEEN A SHOCK TO SOME ORTHODOXY. We would be no more, know no more were it not for those willing to say NO to Religion and Government accept the consequences and push humanity forward.

Quote: "When a society loses faith in an Everlasting God, it will slowly self destruct in hedonism or nilism"

Answer: Examples please. They help to strenthen an argument. There are a whole bunch of people called Asians who have lived with out a monotheistic religion for thousands of years. I think they have produced some reasonable art, science and philosophy. YOu should explore them.

Quote:"I don't expect you to understand until you reach the Point of Despair. "

Answer: What you should have said was that you couldn't expect me to understand your point of view until I had reached "your point of despair". You are functioning under the preposition that unless I come to the same answers as you I have not suffered as you have. How about this concept.... I reached my point of despair and realized that I couldn't take the easy road out and believe what others did. That I, through sheer will power chose to know my own godhood and help others see that we are all absolutely free, not because some "man in the clouds" gave it but because as sentient beings we can take it and have all knowledge and power. I knew and know that this is the harder path. There can be no other way for me unless I choose it.

This whole response was to prove my point about the religious mind being incapable of understanding life's rational evolutionary movements, which goes back to my original point. I don't want to hurt the christians, muslims etc... I would simply move them to a place where they can't hurt others except like kind. In that place you could sit and pray and wait for heaven and jesus and all the other stuff that I consider superstitous. You would just be removed from any important decisions regarding the advancement of the human race, science or technology. I think its a win-win situation. Nobody would bother you and vice-versa.



You are all absolutely free

[End Transmission]


[Edited on 18-6-2003 by Voice_of Doom]

[Edited on 18-6-2003 by Voice_of Doom]

[Edited on 18-6-2003 by Voice_of Doom]