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A question for critics of Socialism

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posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 11:04 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen



Communist state is a term used by Western historians, political scientists and media to refer to states that are governed by a single party adhering to some variation of Marxist-Leninism as its guiding ideology.[1] However, contrary to Western usage, these states do not describe themselves as "communist" nor do they claim to have achieved communism. They refer to themselves as Socialist states or Workers' states that are in the process of constructing socialism.[2]
+

en.wikipedia.org...

But hey us critics of socialism/communism are just making snip up.




posted on Dec, 9 2015 @ 11:28 PM
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originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: vethumanbeing


Buzzy:Neo said this:
The only people who don't understand socialism/communism is are those that push them.
And, in response I say - NO. What he (neo) said is totally incorrect.
Socialism and Communism are not the same thing. It's very easy to discern between the two - even if one just used the ATS search function. They are not the same.

Depends upon the history re-enacted (WW2), Stalin vs Nazism or Chairman Mao; Emperor Hirohito. Forward the history, Pol Pot, Edi 'DaDa" Amin, Kim Jong Ill, Rashid Assad, insane dictators.

Buzzy: But, sadly, neo's one of those people who won't lower himself to actually look at the facts.
(I still don't know what his thing is...what the guns and war and stuff is all about. But. Oh well.)

Neo is not understanding the basis for both dictatorial/totalitarian ruler ship (THE SAME PREMISE). We rule YOU and you oblige our whims OR ELSE. *YOU ARE SPECIAL* (know that Jesus was an Essene time traveler).
edit on 9-12-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 01:04 AM
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a reply to: neo96

Per your cited referenece, if they are not "governed by a single party adhering to some variation of Marxist-Leninism as its guiding ideology" then there is a difference.

Norway has 8 parties representing in their parliment so, according to the definition you posted, they may be socialist but, they are not communist.



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: neo96




So what part of SOCIALIST are some people missing ?


Evidently - context



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 10:37 AM
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Guess I have to quote it AGAIN.



Communist state is a term used by Western historians, political scientists and media to refer to states that are governed by a single party adhering to some variation of Marxist-Leninism as its guiding ideology.[1] However, contrary to Western usage, these states do not describe themselves as "communist" nor do they claim to have achieved communism. They refer to themselves as Socialist states or Workers' states that are in the process of constructing socialism.[


Try reading it slower.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: neo96

Well wikipedia says it, so it must be true!

Though it's interesting you didn't bold the first half of that quote:

Communist state is a term used by Western historians, political scientists and media to refer to states that are governed by a single party adhering to some variation of Marxist-Leninism as its guiding ideology.[1]


How about reading that slowly bud? Last I checked, countries in Europe and the United States have more than one party.
edit on 10-12-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Miss the notations at the end there eh ?

2, and 3



Wilczynski, J. (2008). The Economics of Socialism after World War Two: 1945-1990. Aldine Transaction. p. 21. ISBN 978-0202362281. "Contrary to Western usage, these countries describe themselves as ‘Socialist’ (not ‘Communist’). The second stage (Marx’s ‘higher phase’), or ‘Communism’ is to be marked by an age of plenty, distribution according to needs (not work), the absence of money and the market mechanism, the disappearance of the last vestiges of capitalism and the ultimate ‘whithering away of the state." Steele, David Ramsay (September 1999). From Marx to Mises: Post Capitalist Society and the Challenge of Economic Calculation. Open Court. p. 45. ISBN 978-0875484495. "Among Western journalists the term ‘Communist’ came to refer exclusively to regimes and movements associated with the Communist International and its offspring: regimes which insisted that they were not communist but socialist, and movements which were barely communist in any sense at all."



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: neo96

Going to ignore that part of the quote I pointed out then? Ok, I'm not surprised there. I am talking to you, the most partisan blinded person on ATS.

PS: your new quote still isn't saying what you think it is saying.



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 10:57 AM
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a reply to: neo96


Try reading it slower.


Try thinking - any speed is fine. Whatever you can muster

Some of us believe that we can only understand the world by strictly adhering to definitions

Bernie Sanders is a Communist?

:-)



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 11:09 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn



The founders were stark individualists and this is reflected in the construction of the Constitution. Socialism is a political and economic philosophy of collectivism.


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Written and signed by stark individualists. They somehow managed to see the larger picture of our humanity - that our worth as individuals is better protected when we are united for each other

No man is an island. No state is an island - and it's still a group of individuals. At what point does a society start to break down? Is a state less corruptible than a Federation? A city?


edit on 12/10/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: neo96

Read what slower?

The part you highlighted is refering to countries that fill the definition in the first part of the paragraph. If they don't fill that definition then they are not communist, according to that same definition.
edit on 10-12-2015 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: neo96


Try reading it slower.


Try thinking - any speed is fine. Whatever you can muster

Some of us believe that we can only understand the world by strictly adhering to definitions

Bernie Sanders is a Communist?

:-)





Firearm ownership law in the People's Republic of China heavily regulates the ownership of firearms. Generally, private citizens are not allowed to possess firearms. Firearms can be used by law enforcement, the military and paramilitary, or security personnel protecting property of state importance (including the arms industry, financial institutions, storage of resources, and scientific research institutions).


en.wikipedia.org...

Bernie Sanders Calls for Stronger Gun Control



Sanders voted for the Manchin-Toomey amendment in 2013, however, which would have expanded background checks and banned assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.


www.drudge.com...

It is by no means a leap of any kind.



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: neo96


Bernie Sanders Calls for Stronger Gun Control

So?

What is it with you and guns, anyway? Why do you need an arsenal of assault weapons?



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

He's just following the playbook.



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: neo96


Try reading it slower.


Try thinking - any speed is fine. Whatever you can muster

Some of us believe that we can only understand the world by strictly adhering to definitions

Bernie Sanders is a Communist?

:-)





Firearm ownership law in the People's Republic of China heavily regulates the ownership of firearms. Generally, private citizens are not allowed to possess firearms. Firearms can be used by law enforcement, the military and paramilitary, or security personnel protecting property of state importance (including the arms industry, financial institutions, storage of resources, and scientific research institutions).


en.wikipedia.org...

Bernie Sanders Calls for Stronger Gun Control



Sanders voted for the Manchin-Toomey amendment in 2013, however, which would have expanded background checks and banned assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.


www.drudge.com...

It is by no means a leap of any kind.


You really think only communist countries have strict gun control? Equating gun control to communism isn't so much leap as a rocket assisted take-off.



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: neo96


It is by no means a leap of any kind.


Neo - did you know that Bernie Sanders and Mao have both, on occasion, enjoyed a nice piece of fish?



:-)


edit on 12/10/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 08:30 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Teikiatsu

What is being proposed is not "FORCE."

sheesh


"Something needs to be done."

Pray tell, how will 'something' be 'done'?



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 08:43 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

Written and signed by stark individualists. They somehow managed to see the larger picture of our humanity - that our worth as individuals is better protected when we are united for each other

No man is an island. No state is an island - and it's still a group of individuals. At what point does a society start to break down? Is a state less corruptible than a Federation? A city?



They recognized that government power is better exercised on a local level with greater accountability. They recognized People were greater than Government. They created a document that was supposed to restrict government and turn it into a servant, not a supervisor or nanny. And they were raised in the simple concept that we should do unto others as we want to be treated.

That's not just basic humanity, it's christian philosophy.



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 09:12 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: neo96


Bernie Sanders Calls for Stronger Gun Control

So, What is it with you and guns, anyway? Why do you need an arsenal of assault weapons.

If they: (the unknown factor stranger danger murder-man) enjoy them, I want them as well [as an equalizing/neutralizing force regarding the idea of the JOY OF KILLING innocents].
edit on 10-12-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2015 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm pro Democratic Socialism. Just a couple of questions about your post...What do you mean by "front liners." And what would be your response to critics that say "CEO's work hard to get where they are...they arent all wall street criminals. A person works hard for what they earn and should be up to them how they spend it. Its raising a tax with FALSE REPRESENTATION!! Its government taking more than they already do." Thank You.




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