Very simple argument against abortion

a reply to: sociolpath

Actually the baby is reliant on anyone willing to take care of it. Meanwhile, a fetus cannot survive outside of the mother's womb no matter what (except in the cases of a surrogate donor but that has to be done at the VERY beginning of the pregnancy).

I can't say it any better than Carlin does.

originally posted by: SonOfThor
a reply to: Annee

I am usually not very active on these abortion threads, so apologies if I hadn't seen your take on this question before.

I understand your take on the first scenario, but I don't want to put words in your mouth for the opposite scenario, i.e. if the man doesn't want to be a father, can the woman force him to pay child support? I take it your answer would be yes, but again correct me if I perceived wrong.

I agree with the essence of your argument - not to be lame (I know contracts are not a 'sexy' thing, but I work in contract law) - I think the best solution if you will, would be establish a legally binding contract prior to intercourse of what happens in the event of pregnancy.

Its OK.

Current laws protect the child. The father is the father. He produced a child whether he wants that child or not.

The law will provide for the child. There have been contracts. The law chose the welfare of the child over the contract. The child did not asked to be born. It is the responsibility of the couple who created the child.

I suggest men take more interest in male contraception. PLEASE, take the responsibility away from us women. You take the hormones that jack up your body.

Men - - donate to the study of male contraception. Its cheaper then 18 years of child support.

www.newmalecontraception.org...

a reply to: SonOfThor

No one has answered my question I've posted before - what if the father wants the kid to be born and take care of it?

Scenarios one: Man doesn't want an abortion, woman does.
Scenario two: Man wants an abortion, woman doesn't.

How do you see this being resolved with each getting 50% say in the decision? Imagine neither of them changing their minds.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Fair analysis, and I would agree. I don't really see a solution other than as Annee puts it find the right person and make grown up decisions / be on the same page prior to engaging in intercourse.

a reply to: Annee

I would agree with you there. I am happily married and we are eagerly trying to have kids, but I have plenty of typical male friends who shirk responsibility themselves but aren't afraid to get on a high horse being against of all things a morning after pill as a murder weapon!

Meh, I say let adults make adult decisions, keep the Government out of our bedrooms and Dr offices (especall with women's health issues) and everyone be accountable for their consequences.

a reply to: Thetan

i agree to the taking of a human life is wrong period. but i think i would have the gumption to die so that my child may live.

and there are things worse than murder, like allowing someone to ruin lives with a smile on their face.

originally posted by: sociolpath
a reply to: Annee

Okay so it is her business and no one else's, but it is still murder.

Actually its not. It is a legal procedure.

Definition of murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

If you have a personal issue with it - - - don't do it.

Ive read 8 pages and the topic of the thread is; Very simple argument against abortion.

And all i can read/hear is my right to choose to do what i want with my body. Is that an argument? As a primate you are bonded by instincts.

What Is an Instinct? In animals, instincts are inherent tendencies to spontaneously engage in a specific pattern of behavior.

Very little you do is by choice. If you birth live to something does it mean its your right to end it?

I give a simple argument, and it was, "All life is precious", while most of you say;"Well its a choice, since its a fetus"
My ancestors lived in celibacy, only had sex when the intent was to offspring a baby.

Human rights declaration proclaim in its third article;" Right to life" A Universal UN law.

There is no arguments to an abortion, you kill something. You choose to kill and you use arguments as "choice" to free you from the guilt.

You kill, your guilt makes an excuse

Who said anything about guilt?

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Try understand why you do any choice

a reply to: benwyatt

but what if your gumption to die would leave the kids that you already have living orphans with no one to care for them, would you be willing to ruin the lives of the kids you know and love for the possibility of the one that might be? would you be willing to give up the income you have that serves to put food on their table? I'm sorry, but in the real world, life often gives a person the choice a only crappy options and instead of worrying about right and wrong you end up having to pick the least crappy amoung your choices.

originally posted by: rajas
As a primate you are bonded by instincts.

Where do people come up with this stuff?

You ever watched any documentaries on primates that didn't experience their natural society?

a reply to: Annee

if you observe all the other species of the earth, none will kill its unborn offspring.

if you observe any species of the earth aside from the human, a mother will care for its offspring.

as abortion is a problem only with the human species on earth, humans are murders.

as observed humans will murder any species if its legal, even if its own if its legal.

humans will still murder another human even if they know they will forever after only observe the cage they are placed in.

originally posted by: dawnstar
. . . would you be willing to ruin the lives of the kids you know and love for the possibility of the one that might be? would you be willing to give up the income you have that serves to put food on their table?

NO.

I'm sorry, but in the real world, life often gives a person the choice a only crappy options and instead of worrying about right and wrong you end up having to pick the least crappy amoung your choices.

Yes! It does.

Yes! You do.

originally posted by: sociolpath
a reply to: Annee

if you observe all the other species of the earth, none will kill its unborn offspring.

Are you saying they have the knowledge and understanding to know it's something that can be done?

However, they have been known to kill newborns.

Those not raised in their natural environment have been known to just walk away because they have no social training. They don't know how to take care of an infant. Instinct has its limits.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: sociolpath
a reply to: Annee

if you observe all the other species of the earth, none will kill its unborn offspring.

Are you saying they have the knowledge and understanding to know it's something that can be done?

However, they have been known to kill newborns.

Those not raised in their natural environment have been known to just walk away because they have no social training. They don't know how to take care of an infant. Instinct has its limits.

humans no longer have instincts, therefore humans are no longer in their natural environment.

are you saying that because humans have understanding and knowledge to kill it should be done?

humans have lost their instincts and are now incapable of raising offspring.

a reply to: sociolpath

if you observe any species of the earth aside from the human, a mother will care for its offspring.

There are instances when the newborn gets abandoned or eaten by the parent. A "postpartum abortion" if you will. You've heard of this I assume??

Here is an interesting article about monkeys aborting when new males arrive: link

originally posted by: sociolpath

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: sociolpath
a reply to: Annee

if you observe all the other species of the earth, none will kill its unborn offspring.

Are you saying they have the knowledge and understanding to know it's something that can be done?

However, they have been known to kill newborns.

Those not raised in their natural environment have been known to just walk away because they have no social training. They don't know how to take care of an infant. Instinct has its limits.

humans no longer have instincts, therefore humans are no longer in their natural environment.

are you saying that because humans have understanding and knowledge to kill it should be done?

humans have lost their instincts and are now incapable of raising offspring.

I'm gonna start asking for linked documentation.

Unless you're just offering personal opinion.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

do humans consider humans to be held to higher standards than the baboon species? i can compare other species to humans, but humans cannot. humans cannot distinguish themselves from another human or a chimpanzee. but they can distinguish that they are more important than any other form of observation around them. a human considers itself to be the dominate species of the surrounding area, therefore it is okay for a human to kill any threatening lifeform in the surrounding area. because humans are afraid of a species that will arise from the matter surrounding them and in turn observe their acts. once the act is truly observed they are not safe.

a doctor does not allow the procedure of abortion to be observed.

a murderer does not let his procedure of murder to be observed. unless many humans decide the murder is not murder, then all will see the murder, and all will ignore the murder.

the human observation is collective. therefore you will never see the act truly.