Very simple argument against abortion

a reply to: Annee
This is not an argument concerning legality. It is an argument concerning morality.

a reply to: Xtrozero

We all have different views as to when a fetus becomes a human.

Exactly its not clear cut and as simple as the OP makes it out to be.

One is based on the desire of the mother for the child in her who has done nothing wrong. The other is based on a human who had done evil actions including killing others. I do not see them the same.

OOPs that was my oversight , I missed the innocent part.

All intentional killing of innocent human beings is wrong

a reply to: Krazysh0t
A deductive argument is sound if and only if it is both valid, and all of its premises are actually true. Otherwise, a deductive argument is unsound. You are agreeing that it is valid, but find it unsound. So give me an example of when it isn't sound.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I hope science fix this with the ability to turn off everyone's reproduction system and only on applying and showing the capability to afford and raise the child should one be allowed. I think we will reach a point where children are a not a right but a privilege one would need to earn.

I agree with you 100%.

We are beyond the need to procreate to ensure the survival of our species.

Our needs as a race has changed.

We need responsible, educated people to move us forward.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Krazysh0t
A deductive argument is sound if and only if it is both valid, and all of its premises are actually true. Otherwise, a deductive argument is unsound. You are agreeing that it is valid, but find it unsound. So give me an example of when it isn't sound.

Here is what I said:

I mean I don't have any problems with the syntax of your logic, so your argument certainly isn't invalid. I just find the premises and conclusion to be too narrowly defined. This means that I don't actually find your argument to be unsound either. I just don't agree with your argument because it is too simple.

What was that you were saying again about unsoundness?

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Annee
This is not an argument concerning legality. It is an argument concerning morality.

Speak for yourself.

Morality? Destruction of the planet from over population?

More suffering, unwanted, neglected, abused children?

Your concept of Morality is irresponsible.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
An argument is either completely true, or it isn't. You are saying that my argument isn't completely true.

All cases of an argument being completely true, are cases of soundness.
You think that my argument isn't completely true.
Therefore, you think it isn't sound.

a reply to: Annee

No cases of morality include destruction of the planet via overpopulation, or intentionally making children suffer in any way.


Either refute my argument or don't participate.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Krazysh0t
An argument is either completely true, or it isn't. You are saying that my argument isn't completely true.

All cases of an argument being completely true, are cases of soundness.
You say that my argument isn't completely true.
Therefore, you think it isn't sound.

An argument can be logically valid and sound but still wrong if it is assembled using inductive logic. I mean you DO know that most people only use soundness when talking about deductive reasoning and not inductive reasoning right?

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Yes. This is a deductive argument.

An inductive argument can be unsound however.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Annee

No cases of morality include destruction of the planet via overpopulation, or intentionally making children suffer in any way.

To me, that is naive thinking.

Either refute my argument or don't participate.

You are controlling my thoughts now and my responses to your posts?

Is your position not that of "life begins at conception" and your concept of morality is abortion is taking that life?"

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Yes. This is a deductive argument.

An inductive argument can be unsound however.

No, you didn't present a deductive argument. A deductive argument must be argued with facts and objective evidence. Your argument is based around opinion and morality. It is by its very nature an inductive argument.

All cats are felines
All felines have fur
Therefore, all cats have fur

THAT is a deductive argument. It is an argument of the form:
All A are B
All B have C
Therefore all A have C.

You can sub out words for the variables and it will always be true (provided you followed the correct logical syntax presented in the original argument).

a reply to: Annee
No. Control is the ability to start, change and stop a thing. I cannot start, change, or stop your comments or thoughts. The agreement on ATS is to "stay on topic," when participating in threads. You are not staying on topic in this thread.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Annee
No. Control is the ability to start, change and stop a thing. I cannot start, change, or stop your comments or thoughts. The agreement on ATS is to "stay on topic," when participating in threads. You are not staying on topic in this thread.

I have no idea what you just said.

So, please state your argument so I can be clear what it is.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

It is deductive. "Definition:
A deductive argument is one in which it is claimed that it is impossible for the premises to be true but the conclusion false. Thus, the conclusion follows necessarily from the premises and inferences. In this way, it is supposed to be a definitive proof of the truth of the claim (conclusion)."
atheism.about.com...

a reply to: Annee
My OP argument, or the one I just gave to you?

Here is your argument from the OP:

All intentional killing of innocent human beings is wrong.
Abortion is the intentional killing of an innocent human being.
Therefore, abortion is wrong.

All based on your concept of Morality.

My concept of Morality is to protect what is already living.

a reply to: Annee
I'm sorry but I don't understand. Are you saying that my argument is unsound?

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It is deductive. "Definition:
A deductive argument is one in which it is claimed that it is impossible for the premises to be true but the conclusion false. Thus, the conclusion follows necessarily from the premises and inferences. In this way, it is supposed to be a definitive proof of the truth of the claim (conclusion)."
atheism.about.com...

Do you not know how opinions work? Opinions by their very nature CANNOT be definitely true or false. It doesn't matter how many valid premises you stack behind your conclusion, opinions ARE subjective. You cannot build an argument with an opinion as its conclusion and it be a deductive argument. It's impossible.

Now I see why we were having this breakdown in communication earlier about refuting your argument. You don't know how to properly identify a deductive or inductive argument.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Annee
I'm sorry but I don't understand. Are you saying that my argument is unsound?

Your argument is an opinion.

My argument counters your opinion.

I am on subject.