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Jesus: The First Communist

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posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:02 AM
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I truly do not understand this association between Christianity and right wing politics. Almost every aspect of it seems clearly in opposition to what Jesus taught. But I'll go one step further. Seems clear to me that Jesus and his disciples were communist. Maybe socialist, but it seems pretty clear they were trying to establish communism. Let me quote Acts 4:32-35

" All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all, that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need."

So, the system established among the disciples of Jesus was one where no one claimed personal possession of anything, but instead everything was communally owned and all money and possessions were distributed among everyone according to their needs. Well...this is exactly communism. They literally established a communist system.

The right wingers may say, 'well they chose to, not the government.' Ok, well the disciples CHOSE something that you hate, and characterize as evil. If the direct disciples of the man you claim to worship as God chose to live in a way directly contrary to your beliefs, what does that say about you in relation to that man? You literally act as though the system Jesus and his disciples instituted is somehow evil...and yet you claim to be a follower of the religion?
edit on 4-11-2015 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-11-2015 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are."


Most "Christians" I meet are only a Christian by name, not by action.

Did you read about how the-powers-that-be at the time tried to quell this movement by killing Paul? They vowed not to eat until Paul was killed... but they never were able to kill him. Powerful stuff.

edit on 4-11-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:16 AM
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It's all about shades of socialism, a hearts and minds thing. Once you make things like that a dictat you lose the goodness in the intent. Communism is a dictat, and never works, I don't even think NC will remain as it is for much longer, there is not much in the way of caring and sharing there, just a small bunch of elitists, while much of the country has very little.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:17 AM
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Yeah, it's kind of weird that the more conservative Jews didn't like what Jesus was saying, because he wasn't hung up on all the specific laws and taboos. Also, the Jews were a very exclusive group - they didn't just accept everybody. Jesus was just the opposite. And today, it is the more conservative folks who proclaim their Christianity the loudest.

It's a crazy world.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney
Communism, in theory, is a great idea imo. However, we can never achieve a true Marxist structure due to the greedy devils at the top.

edit on 4-11-2015 by Tucket because: come clarity



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney

On a journey, eh? Looks like you took a wrong turn along the way.

Jesus was not only not a Communist, he wasn't even a socialist in any form.

Both the above entail enforcement. Jesus lead by example, not enforcement.

He was socially responsible. Socially aware. Not a socialist, at all.

Have you considered a 'u-turn' as a possible correction in your 'journey'?



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:35 AM
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hence why the rich have spent so much disinfo and propaganda to make us thinking communal living and social awareness is a bad thing. They probably do want to censor Jesus' words out of the bible because sometimes people actually read it instead of just watching tv all day.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:36 AM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: TheJourney

On a journey, eh? Looks like you took a wrong turn along the way.

Jesus was not only not a Communist, he wasn't even a socialist in any form.

Both the above entail enforcement. Jesus lead by example, not enforcement.

He was socially responsible. Socially aware. Not a socialist, at all.

Have you considered a 'u-turn' as a possible correction in your 'journey'?



Would you like to be a part of a community in which there was no private property and everything was shared equally among everyone? Or are you in opposition to the type of community Jesus and his disciples were trying to establish? An actual answer, please, instead of a rant in which you don't actually answer the simple yes or no question, which is usually what happens in such situations.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: Tucket

Yes we can and yes! We aready did so.
libcom.org...

Now let's take a closer look at this present day Gallic Village in Spain:
www.theguardian.com...

It's more direct democratic than marxist if you ask me, but hey... just a question of definitions after all.






posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:45 AM
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You're not the first person to connect communist/socialist ideals with Jesus Christ. It is from the similarities between the two that inspired the Mormons to create the first communist towns in the US through the United Order.

There is absolutely no doubt that many of the modern Christians, especially the Christian Right, are polar opposites of the man they claim to worship.

Modern Christianity is not actually built upon the model Jesus left for them. It is built upon a propaganda machine that uses faith as a tool to control and give appearance of good intentions. Christian leadership and politicians today use religion the same way Hitler used it in Nazi Germany. They didn't care about faith, except is was a useful tool to raise support for causes by invoking the name of god....playing the "religion" card, as it were.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney

"The idea of a classless, egalitarian society first emerged in Ancient Greece. Plato, writing in The Republic around 380 BC, described it as a state where people shared all their property, wives, and children: "The private and individual is altogether banished from life and things which are by nature private, such as eyes and ears and hands, have become common, and in some way see and hear and act in common, and all men express praise and feel joy and sorrow on the same occasions." (from Wikipedia)

That is 380years before Jesus. I am positive that the Greek influence crept into Christianity from the very beginning. Jesus established the Kingdom of God as the Gospels tell us. He did not organise a congregation or community other than his Disciples. Those who developed communes, congregations and social structures based on Christ's world view would have been very heavily influenced by the ideas of their day. The Republic, Republicans, see the link.

Marx in his and Engel's "Communist Manifesto" obviously looked to history for their ideas. Nothing is truly original. The mistake of Communism was the banishment of religion as "the opiate of the masses". Banning God was a bad move. People are mind, body and spirit. All must be catered for by any system of political and social civilization.

Plato is more of a genius than we give him credit for. I suspect that Jesus was well aware of the Republic and other Greek ideas as the Greeks and Hebrews had been in close cultural contact since the Greeks invasion and dominance around 312 BC. It was the Greeks who did the first great translation of the Hebrew Scripture in The Septuagint,

"The translation of the Septuagint itself began in the 3rd century BCE and was completed by 132 BCE". The Greeks also were the ones to produce the first texts for the New Testament. Greek is the original language of most of the NT. I once wrote a very detailed thread about it for ATS, but at the time people were very rude and dismissed me on account of talking about Hebrew Scripture. I cannot stress strongly enough the influence of the Greeks on the Hebrews and Christian and the religions that came out of each.

Communism has been a slowly emerging system from many centuries of progressive ideas. I would have been a fan, but it turned out being a Godless beast by banning God and religious worship. It was Marx's Achilles Heel and Communism's, too, in my opinion.
edit on 4-11-2015 by Revolution9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney

This touches upon many misunderstandings.

I won't comment on the nature of Christ or Christianity other than to say that I always understood charitable giving of time and resources to be an exclusively voluntary act. His object was humans, each individual soul.

Socialism is an economic system which denies individual property rights and awards the state exclusive monopoly control over the means of production. Its object is humanity, not humans. Expressly soulless in nature.

Other than propagandized misunderstanding and false conflation, I can't imagine how those two belief systems could possibly coincide.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney

Jesus believed in helping others not legislating it.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:52 AM
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originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: TheJourney

This touches upon many misunderstandings.

I won't comment on the nature of Christ or Christianity other than to say that I always understood charitable giving of time and resources to be an exclusively voluntary act. His object was humans, each individual soul.

Socialism is an economic system which denies individual property rights and awards the state exclusive monopoly control over the means of production. Its object is humanity, not humans. Expressly soulless in nature.

Other than propagandized misunderstanding and false conflation, I can't imagine how those two belief systems could possibly coincide.


The exact quote was "no one claimed that any of their possessions was their own." And you say that Jesus couldn't have been communist, because...he was such a staunch supporter of private property rights?

Again, would you like to VOLUNTARILY join a community in which there was no private property and everything was shared equally among everyone?
edit on 4-11-2015 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: TheJourney

Jesus believed in helping others not legislating it.


Non-answer, as predicted...at least your non-answer was short, rather then a rant.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: greencmp

But why don't current-day Christians voluntarily join together, give up their possessions and distribute them among the needy? Why don't they voluntarily live up to Jesus' example? Why don't they voluntarily live in a communal type environment? Why don't they voluntarily advocate living in such a way?



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: TheJourney

A little tough when most questions are pre-loaded and slanted.

In this case, the answer is simple. No.

You omit the enforcement issue. If I told Jesus "no". That would be the end of it.

Not so with Communists or 'socialists'. I have zero problem with communes or those that prefer that life-style. Whatever floats your boat.

Calling him a communist is pure bull. You know it. I know it.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: greencmp



Socialism is an economic system which denies individual property rights and awards the state exclusive monopoly control over the means of production.


Communism is a system in which the state controls the means of production. Socialism is providing goods and services for all through the collective wealth of the people. There is a big difference.

Also, socialism does not require denial of individual property rights. That's just ignorance and scare tactics.



Its object is humanity, not humans. Expressly soulless in nature.


As it should be.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: TheJourney

A little tough when most questions are pre-loaded and slanted.

In this case, the answer is simple. No.

You omit the enforcement issue. If I told Jesus "no". That would be the end of it.

Not so with Communists or 'socialists'. I have zero problem with communes or those that prefer that life-style. Whatever floats your boat.

Calling him a communist is pure bull. You know it. I know it.



Ok, so your mentality is the opposite of Jesus and his disciples. Which is fine, just strange you claim to be a follower of him.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: Metallicus

But if people voluntarily gave the needy all that was necessary, it wouldn't have to be legislated.

There are plenty of Christians who have nice homes, nice furniture, and abundance of food, nice clothes, nice car.... and there are plenty of people in poverty with none of those things.



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