Official: Illinois cop's death will be declared a suicide

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: olaru12

Do you have anything that you're basing that off of?

Or just the hope that instead of one dirty cop, it's a whole bunch of dirty cops?

I know that you usually protect the status quo; it's your MO. I don't hope for anything, but I do have experience
as a CIT trainer with a Forensic Behavioral training contractor and have had an intimate connection with Law enforcement for a long time. That's what I base my attitudes on and the reason I don't trust authority.

I have no evidence but the CNN story was just to polished, scripted and presented; btw I trust news organizations less than I trust law enforcement.

a reply to: olaru12

Yep you nailed me there! What with my vehement indictment of Tensing for shooting DuBose, and my disgust for all the NYPD officers involved in the Garner case. The list goes on. That sure was me protecting the status quo, wasn't it?

Guess your "MO" would be conveniently ignoring whatever doesn't fit with your narrative, then?

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: olaru12

Do you have anything that you're basing that off of?

Or just the hope that instead of one dirty cop, it's a whole bunch of dirty cops?

Maybe the fact that the Mayor called him a good and close friend.

But sure, keep up your blue line BS, it's been working great so far. The rot in this country's police isn't an issue of a few bad apples, it's an issue of systematic corruption and conspiracy which destroy the integrity of most who join. The false narrative you push is as thin as a Fox News broadcast (or really any news broadcast these days)

a reply to: James1982

I bet one of your friends, even one of your good and close friends, has a deep dark secret you don't know about.

But stick to your ignorance of how I actually post here on ATS. The hate will keep you warm

originally posted by: yeahright
a reply to: Rosinitiate

Detectives looked at more than 6,500 pages of text messages, 40,000 emails and over 1,000 bank documents following his death and found he was at the center of illicit activity.

You can speculate and contort and manufacture facts, or you can review what's known and draw a rational conclusion. I know that's not a popular strategy.

So if the police department is suspect, we are supposed to let go of those suspicions because that same police department determined he was at the center of it? Do you have any idea how absurd that sounds to anyone with a shred of intelligence? When the police are investigating a gang banger, do they let his fellow gang members conduct the investigation? No? Why? Maybe a little conflict of interest? Oh I forgot, cops are supermen, they don't struggle with such issues of conscience and are above reproach. Ouch, it hurt I just rolled my eyes so much!


40,000 emails, 6500 pages of texts (not 6500 texts, 6500 pages of texts) and 40,000 emails. So.... this guy was the one responsible, and he just decided to text and email everyone in the whole town over and over about how he is stealing money? Why was all this correspondence required if this guy was the one doing it?

There were many more involved, likely way higher up than him, and loose ends have been cut. The money issue might just be a red herring in the first place. The social connections this officer had in his local government and community, along with the glowing references and support from the big times during the start of the incident shows pretty strongly this guy wasn't a nobody who decided to steal money and then off himself when he got caught.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: James1982

I bet one of your friends, even one of your good and close friends, has a deep dark secret you don't know about.

But stick to your ignorance of how I actually post here on ATS. The hate will keep you warm

You make a good point, if this were to be examined in a vacuum. I'm sure my friends do have aspects of themselves that I'm unaware of, possibly criminal, but I'm a nobody and they are nobodies. We don't do media interviews, we don't have any involvement with local politics or law enforcement. Our contacts don't include local heavyweights and other higher ups. It's a different situation.

I have no hate for you sir, but I do have hate for the situation we are in and the system we operate under. Whether wearing a badge or flip flops people are people, and given the opportunity to abuse and oppress others unfortunately many people jump at the opportunity. It's not that I don't trust you, I don't trust any human to posses the power you do. It's truly nothing personal.

originally posted by: James1982
So if the police department is suspect, we are supposed to let go of those suspicions because that same police department determined he was at the center of it? Do you have any idea how absurd that sounds to anyone with a shred of intelligence? When the police are investigating a gang banger, do they let his fellow gang members conduct the investigation?

Cops=gangbangers.

Got it. I can see where your confirmation bias leads you down some dark paths. Let me know when there's evidence beyond "all cops are corrupt" to go on.

originally posted by: yeahright

originally posted by: James1982
So if the police department is suspect, we are supposed to let go of those suspicions because that same police department determined he was at the center of it? Do you have any idea how absurd that sounds to anyone with a shred of intelligence? When the police are investigating a gang banger, do they let his fellow gang members conduct the investigation?

Cops=gangbangers.

Got it. I can see where your confirmation bias leads you down some dark paths. Let me know when there's evidence beyond "all cops are corrupt" to go on.

That's really all you were able to pull from my post? You don't let those who are suspect investigate themselves. That was the point. If there is a thief in the department, having the department find that thief is a bad and dishonest idea.

Although if you actually look into gang culture you can see quite a lot of parallels with police culture, FWIW.

First thing that leaped to my mind was maybe the guy was trying scam insurance or be recognized as a hero or both.

Maybe he really didn't plan on dying.

Pure speculation on my part but stranger things have happened.

yeah highly doubtful it was suicide, do I know that for a fact no, but highly doubtful. No one commits suicide with a shot to their chest. Good way to live thru it but with crippling injuries. It is possible he wanted it to look like he was murdered so his wife and kids could get some life insurance money. I see the motive there. Maybe he was really that stupid. He was also using text messages to talk to his pals about how they were stealing cash? You'd think a cop would know that is not private.

More likely is that some other cops were the ones stealing funds and they framed this guy.

a reply to: James1982

You make a point about the mayor talking about this guy. Terrific. What is the mayor supposed to say? I didn't know him at all but I heard he was a great dude?

My point is, vacuum or otherwise, that the mayor is the mayor. Not another cop. Not his supervisor. Not his second in command. Maybe they were actually friends? Maybe they weren't? Either way, I have a hard time buying the notion that just because the mayor says something, that's it, end of story. If this guy was ripping off the groups he lead, why would the mayor know anything about it?

I expect the mayor would know about things happening like the chief and an officer being investigated. I don't expect the mayor to know that one cop is cooking the books and siphoning money off somebody.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: James1982

You make a point about the mayor talking about this guy. Terrific. What is the mayor supposed to say? I didn't know him at all but I heard he was a great dude?

My point is, vacuum or otherwise, that the mayor is the mayor. Not another cop. Not his supervisor. Not his second in command. Maybe they were actually friends? Maybe they weren't? Either way, I have a hard time buying the notion that just because the mayor says something, that's it, end of story. If this guy was ripping off the groups he lead, why would the mayor know anything about it?

I expect the mayor would know about things happening like the chief and an officer being investigated. I don't expect the mayor to know that one cop is cooking the books and siphoning money off somebody.

Well I'm not saying that I know that the guy (or the mayor) is guilty of something specific, I'm saying that there are more than a few things that stick up as red flags to me personally, and since we know any sort of outside investigation (truly outside) isn't going to happen, we are left with nothing but a dead guy and whatever the department tells us.

Obviously as a police officer you are probably going to be more biased in favor of ignoring coincidences and giving the benefit of the doubt, as a person with my own experiences (no, I'm not a criminal or a convict) I'm going to be biased in the other direction. There are both benign and nefarious explanations for the events that are both reasonable and plausible, you lean towards benign (single dude stealing some cash) I lean towards more nefarious (some sort of collusion with others in department and local gov, part of a bigger issue)

With the amount of information the guy was exchanging it would make sense that a large number of people were involved and this thing spread out further and wasn't headed by him. I'm not a prosecutor and this isn't a courtroom, I don't need to meet a legal burden of proof to discuss these events on ATS, so I really wouldn't consider it reaching to talk as if there's something bigger here where there are more than a few things that seem off.

One thing for sure is if the police believe one of their own was killed by three random guys on foot they won't close the case until they find their guys. They don't give up on cop killers that easy. There are only two other alternatives that I can see: suicide or inside job.

He had radio access so it seems likely he could have outed the person if they was a cop at that moment. I haven't seen anything about the amount he supposedly embezzled which could shed more light on possible motive. The first shot hit his vest and didn't penetrate. The second one was above the protective vest he was wearing. I think he likely staged it as a murder to go down as a hero instead of losing his status and compensation for his family if he was found out.

a reply to: James1982

don't mean to throw a wet rag on your fire here.....but yes. Departments should investigate themselves internally.

My job currently has me as the primary investigator in my business. I investigate theft, guest complaints, employee/HR issues....i don't need an independant 3rd party to come investigate whether or not employee A is stealing cash/inventory....and in no other industry would that be expected.

The PD has a fiduciary responsibility to investigate its own financial matters. Thats what they did here.

Besides...it was federal investigators that were helping on the case. Once they determined it was likely a suicide, the FBI backed out and let the local PD handle it.

Im with you on being wary of the police...but you can't take that wariness and let it become comfirmation bias.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: James1982

don't mean to throw a wet rag on your fire here.....but yes. Departments should investigate themselves internally.

My job currently has me as the primary investigator in my business. I investigate theft, guest complaints, employee/HR issues....i don't need an independant 3rd party to come investigate whether or not employee A is stealing cash/inventory....and in no other industry would that be expected.

The PD has a fiduciary responsibility to investigate its own financial matters. Thats what they did here.

Besides...it was federal investigators that were helping on the case. Once they determined it was likely a suicide, the FBI backed out and let the local PD handle it.

Im with you on being wary of the police...but you can't take that wariness and let it become comfirmation bias.

I was more talking about retail, that has a separate LP department that oversees such issues. The people or department suspected of theft wouldn't be the ones left in charge if the investigation, it would be a higher up or separate entity within the company. If bob the new cashier at a walmart is suspected of doing something suspicious, they aren't going to have his buddy cashier dave head the investigation. With the police, what is the higher up or separate entity? Other police? The potential for abuse with an officer is orders of magnitude higher than the risk with some business anyway, we aren't talking about people who are abusing their position as a treasurer of a non-profit, we are talking about someone who has the ability to delve into and destroy the lives of anyone he wants if he were to break the code of his position, which even the PD now admits he has.

It's unnecessary to get bogged down in the details of the metaphor, I already clarified once that the point is that those who are suspect should not be investigating themselves. I'm speaking more to the larger issue at hand here of accountability, I think there should be a completely outside entity that is responsible for any and all investigations into the suspected wrongdoings of officers and political figures. Maybe a state-level group that is headed by a few people elected by the public.

I totally agree that we shouldn't just tar and feather people because they wear a badge, but with great power comes great responsibility, and there is not a satisfactory system in place to enforce accountability as a whole. Just my opinion.

a reply to: James1982

Great points.

And i really don't have an answer. I get mired down, personally, in the same concerns that LEO have with civilian oversight. Essentially, that one of us whacko's (i.e., regular folks) won't really grasp/comprehend that which we would be judging and investigating.

The concept of internal affairs is great. The reality gets kind of fuzzy.

Just my 2 cents but , who in the hell chases suspects for 50 yards then suddenly decides to commit suicide .

originally posted by: hutch622
Just my 2 cents but , who in the hell chases suspects for 50 yards then suddenly decides to commit suicide .

As I understand it, there were no suspects---he made them up to make it appear that he was offed.

I'd be very interested to know if any of the cops responding to the scene were wearing lapel cameras. It was reported that he died shortly after the first responders arrived. Was he still conscious when they arrived? Did he have any last words for them. Cameras would help.

As for the department, mayor, etc. not knowing of the embezzlement---in most cases when these special programs are set up, there is very little oversight and no financial accounting at all. Until there is a problem. I've seen it happen numerous times.

In this case it would seem that the bank records would be the tell. When $X leaves the special cop account and $X shows up in the cop's account on the same day....doesn't take a forensic accountant to figure that one out.

No matter what he did, I feel for his family, and yes, even for him, that he felt he had no choice except to take his life and leave his children fatherless. All because of pictures of dead presidents.

ETA: Was just scanning a local news site and found this update: www.wpsdlocal6.com...

FOX LAKE, Ill. (AP) - The latest developments in the investigation into the September shooting death of an Illinois police officer (all times local): 7:45 p.m. An official tells The Associated Press that the wife and son of an Illinois police lieutenant who killed himself during a probe of a youth program he oversaw are two of the individuals with whom he exchanged some incriminating text messages. Authorities investigating the September death of northern Illinois police Lt. Charles Gliniewicz released documents containing some of the thousands of pages of texts and Facebook messages he shared with others in the weeks before he died. The documents identified two of the recipients only as Individual #1 and Individual #2. The official, who was briefed on the investigation, told The Associated Press's Don Babwin Thursday that Individual #1 was Gliniewicz's wife Melodie, who in one message suggests the couple may "need to hide the funds some how." The official said Individual #2 was Gliniewicz's son D.J., who the officer warns that not repaying money spent on personal items could mean he "will be visiting me in JAIL!!"

12:30 p.m. An official says an Illinois police officer who killed himself tried to arrange for a gang member "to put a hit" on a village administrator because he feared she would discover he had been embezzling money. Lake County Sheriff's Office spokesman Christopher Covelli also said Thursday that investigators found packets of coc aine in Fox Lake Police Lt. Charles Joseph Gliniewicz's desk after his Sept. 1 death. Covelli says investigators recovered deleted text messages in which Gliniewicz mentioned the possibility of planting something on the administrator, Anne Marrin, although he says they don't know if that's why he had the coc aine. Covelli says Gliniewicz sent the text about arranging the hit to a woman last April, asking for help arranging a meeting with a high-ranking gang member. He declined to give her name.

originally posted by: slapjacks
So, I have mixed feeling about this story, in regards to the police officer Lieutenant Charles Joseph Gliniewicz. If I recall, when all of this was going down I distinctly remember there being a few reports or may they were rumors, that one suspect had been caught. I don't have a source for that but I do know that it was discussed here on ATS.

First of all there's more to this than anyone including me can keep track of but I have looked at some of the material from a variety of sources including a previous string here at ATS which cited the person you say was arrested in connection to this. It was discussed previously on Manhunt underway at Fox Lake Illinois and the person arrested wasn't accused of murdering him but he was a former Chicago cop, Joseph Battaglia and he was charged with trying to intimidate the coroner to call it a suicide, yet there was no mention of this in recent reports that does just that.

I find this extremely suspicious, to put it mildly. On top of that they're accusing Joe Gliniewicz of much more crimes than he could have gotten away with in an honest police jurisdiction without help in my opinion. I strongly suspect that there is much more to this than they're reporting and suspect they might be using him as a scapegoat to cover up bigger problems and they he might not have even committed suicide at all. The method allegedly used seems highly unlikely especially when if it was a carefully planned suicide he could have simply left of his bullet proof vest among other things which I went into more in Scripted media coverage of Joe Gliniewicz's "suicide" is incomplete at best

This includes a long list of other crimes that Joe Gliniewicz was allegedly involved in including sexual harassment threatening to kill a dispatcher although it was dismissed as a joke and now hiring a hitman for someone else among other things yet no consideration of other corrupt cops and they're pretending Joseph Battaglia no longer exists at all judging by the coverage.