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I was just about to start a deep philosophical thread and I realized...

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posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 07:17 AM
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The very people I would be questioning with the thread are people that I can't communicate with. The topic was to be something like the following:

Is the "you create your reality" paradigm actually solipsistic?

I know from experience that many of the adherents of the "you create your reality" belief system will not allow themselves to be constricted by definitions. For instance, I can use the dictionary definition of solipsism that is extant in exactly the same form more or less in every dictionary that has an entry for the word but the people I'll be questioning can brush that aside at their whim. They can simply make up their own definition based on nothing but their own volition.

Because, these people get to be judge, jury, and executioner and their judgments are final. When debating one of them:

1. They determine the rules of the debate

2. They determine the evidence that's allowed and the rules for allowing evidence (whether or not those rules make any logical sense)

3. They make the final judgment (at any time) and their judgment is final

I accept that. It's their prerogative to debate like that. I'm just throwing in the towel a little and I needed to get that off my chest.
edit on 4-11-2015 by Profusion because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 07:21 AM
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I believe the definition of solipsism includes there being no point in discussing it with others.

So... Yes!



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

Write the damn thread!



edit on 4-11-2015 by EA006 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 07:32 AM
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sol·ip·sism (sŏl′ĭp-sĭz′əm, sō′lĭp-)
n.
1. Philosophy The theory that the self is the only thing that can be known and verified.

2. The view that the self is the only reality.

Except for all those other selfs out there. Oh, and the whole Universe.

I guess its great to be close minded and all. Yah, hard to converse with, Nope, minds made up. I'm the only reality. What I say goes. Narcissists. They been watching to much screen.

I thought Philosphy's Greek roots were Philo- "love" and sophy- "wisdom", love of wisdom?

Oh well OP, you toss your pebble in the pond and see where it ripples.
edit on 4-11-2015 by intrptr because: bb code



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: Profusion
What we got here is a Failure to Communicate .



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 07:37 AM
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originally posted by: Iamthatbish
I believe the definition of solipsism includes there being no point in discussing it with others.

So... Yes!


I'm coining a new term right now, JJEs. Judge, jury, and executioner (JJE) all rolled into one. This goes beyond solipsism because lots of idealists of all types are JJEs. I covered that in another thread:

What's your view on the concept of 'hopelessness'?

I think the real heart of the problem isn't solipsism, it's the fact that some people can't even entertain certain thoughts without it blowing their worldview and/or faith to pieces. In the example given in the thread above, some cannot allow the possibility that there is such a thing as "hopelessness" into their thought process because then they would have to rethink/reshape their whole worldview and/or faith.

So, in my experience, they'll defend their beliefs over everything. Facts, logic, truth...it all gets axed when necessary in order for them to stay in their bubble. My conclusion is that comfort is more important than truth to them. I can't imagine living like that. I don't know how one can survive like that:

How do people who believe 'There is no truth' function in society?
edit on 4-11-2015 by Profusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 07:52 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

I don't know if I'm missing the point of your reply but...

It's not about being closed minded because you think you are the only person who exists.

It's about what one can 'know'. And what one can 'know' for certain. We can only 'assume' that others exist or that others are conscious. Others 'may' be a result of our senses etc



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 08:10 AM
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You Think;Therefore we're not?
I think not.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: AttitudeProblem
I don't need your civil war....



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 08:20 AM
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a reply to: Profusion
o
Good god this dude got us all looking up words and stuff ......and I ADMIT I did it ,,lol
But i thought it might be something funny like

I was just about to start a deep philosophical thread and I realized...
.........why lol

.

Lol that would of been funny is all i am saying not making fun of no 1

love u all bye


edit on 4-11-2015 by sweets777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 08:21 AM
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a reply to: and14263

Thank you, I understand.


It's about what one can 'know'. And what one can 'know' for certain. We can only 'assume' that others exist or that others are conscious. Others 'may' be a result of our senses, etc.

Thats Bulls***.

Put nicer, reality is make believe to some, until the real reality shows up. Like a stroke, for instance.

A dose of reality smelling salts. Oh yah, you thought life was the same, boring, continuous existence?

Here, wham.

I think people have been locked into one reality, i.e., themselves, for so long they can't identify with others or the outside world as well anymore, and they defend this dysfunction on some level by questioning whether the outside world even exists.

I think this is by design, I think this conditioning is ingrained by too much screen time.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

I think I understand (hell, I suspect I am one of the persons you refer to!).

I might be wrong about the precise types of situations and commentary you are refering to,

but I know that many people, especially those focused on spiritual growth in the moment,

are in the process of forming their self concept.

It could be that the ego was not properly formed earlier in life,
It might be that they simply decided they didn't like the way it formed through the influence of nurture, and set out to reform it themselves (be a self realized individual).

A big part of that is forming your own "philosophy" which shall be your frame work for perception.
That takes time. And while it is still fragile and not fully constructed or integrated, they HAVE to be very vigilant about staying focused on it.

You know, you can just ignore them if you want - they are working on their own stuff. Wherever they are now with it, it will continue to evolve with time.

But also, some people, like me, consider that I have full right to state my opinion, or view, and stick to it no matter what; asserting it without budging, without that having any impact or effect upon anyone else.

No matter how stubborn they are in their position, you ALWAYS have the right to be just as stubborn in yours!
Agree to disagree. You don't need them to change anything for you. There doesn't have to be a winner and a loser in a debate or discussion. It could remain a friendly training exercise.

The harder you push, the more they will reinforce their walls.

Funny, even as you chose not to start the that thread, this topic still applies.
I think the "you create your own reality" concept has some validity. Though I do not see it as solipsism.

For me, the idea pertains to the recognition of ones relation to the exterior and others, and that the self is a fundamental player in what happens to you. It is not all arbitrary events that are just thrown up in the air and happen to land at your feet. Whether aware of it or not, you play a part in inviting them, and in feeding them. Your choice of perception and judgement of them will influence what kinds of events you will be involved with in the future.

I don't think it denies the existence of others, and a reality beyond the self, but it focuses on self as an active player in events one experiences.



.....including your experiences on thread you start.

edit on 4-11-2015 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

Sorry, I wasn't having a go.

The philosophical theory is just that - it cannot be proven, just like it cannot be proven to be BS. And I think it must be mentioned that very few would be crazy enough to live their life according to solopsism - it would be lonely and mind bendingly scary.

I don't think it has anything to do with being self-absorbed - that lies in the physical.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: Profusion

We are speaking, are we not, about the difference between the reality that is measured by all persons, and the reality we create for ourselves?

I have to look at these things as being fundamentally different from one another, separate parts of the topography of thought.

If, for example, I stand next to strong source of ionising radiation, I cannot merely decide that I will not become dangerously irradiated. I will, without a doubt, be compromised in terms of my health at least, if not the ability for my mortal existence to continue beyond a matter of days or weeks after exposure, assuming a lethal dose is absorbed.

So no matter how positive I might remain about things during the period between fatal exposure, and the actual event of my death, my ability to create my own reality is absolutely irrelevant to ACTUAL reality. Ergo, they are separate things.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: intrptr

I think people have been locked into one reality, i.e., themselves, for so long they can't identify with others or the outside world as well anymore, and they defend this dysfunction on some level by questioning whether the outside world even exists.

I think this is by design, I think this conditioning is ingrained by too much screen time.


Ah, there, I disagree. Feel free to do same! I'm perfectly okay with that )

I am one who was exposed to the possibility that we cannot know for certain anything at a very young age - I hadn't much of an ego built yet, I didn't have a firm perception of reality yet, had no opinions on anything (except perhaps my favorite candy, but that was fluctuating daily). And I certainly did not have a screen yet.


All that did was leave open a tiny door at all times, to the possibility that there is always more I am not aware of - in events, in others, in subjects.... it is never "done".

It never made suffering become any less painful in experience, it never made it any less interesting or attractive to go forth into this reality (that may or may not be real) and interact with it, and search to discover more. It never made others emotions less important to me.

I think the door closes to others and the exterior once you decide you know things for sure.
But then that is just my perception, right now. Can't be sure, just go with it in the moment!



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 10:45 AM
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a reply to: and14263


And I think it must be mentioned that very few would be crazy enough to live their life according to solipsism - it would be lonely and mind bendingly scary.


Thats how social dysfunction manifests, the inability to interact with others stemming from long periods of isolation, namely (imo), from staring at device screens too long. TV, video games and yes, the internet.

This is not physically interacting, by the way.

I'll never be able to surmount that in my mind. Interacting is actually interacting face to face with real people in the real world.

What we are doing toady is raising whole new generations that walk around all day staring at their personal devices, not each other.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 10:48 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma


I am one who was exposed to the possibility that we cannot know for certain anything at a very young age

For you.. and I agree, children are more impressionable. But some do march to a different drummer, its a burden I've bore all my life. I don't go along.

I am cut short , will get back to you later…



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: Bluesma


I think the door closes to others and the exterior once you decide you know things for sure.
But then that is just my perception, right now. Can't be sure, just go with it in the moment!

Uhhh, thats different. Knowitalls are arrogant, presuming they are better maybe, or above others. They may not know much of anything, but pretend they do and assume a "better than thou" attitude. Cup of organized religion anyone? Masters degree? Silver spoon?

I meant more along the lines of being in prison, for instance. That kind of isolation from the world. I see people walking around with their heads down and wonder how isolated they are. I see my nephew being brought up with a TV and IPod babysitter, I can hardly distract him from either, both are on in the room whenever he comes by.

He isn't learning how to cope with his own emotions or how to develop empathy or caring for others. He is quite young and already quite arrogant.

This generation when it grows up will be intolerant of others and prone to tantrums if provoked.

I think the clinical term is something like, Sociopath with Narcissistic tendencies, a most dangerous combination.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: Profusion
Hiya Profusion,

How would you like people to debate? Not sarcasm, serious question.

Regarding the hopelessness thread example ... Anything related to mental health is going to get strong and extreme opinions and the human brain takes a huge pile of short cuts to get anywhere.

Many people believe that:

1. They choose to be 'positive' when they act positively
2. When bad things happen they believe they 'choose' to get better
3. Therefore they believe other people can 'choose' to be these ways
4. Other people are choosing to be hopeless

It's an attitude or set of values that ensures emotional security, allows guilt free judgement of other people (they choose to be that way), lets one take credit for their own emotional stability, and gives the person an active 'role' when vulnerability strikes them. Making no value statement on the truth of the above, they get a lot of it.

For most humans there is no practical value in considering that they might not have free will or that everything is a bit poop. We're a bit of delusional species but those delusions built social contracts enforcing cultural norms that encouraged productivity even if it also encouraged ignoring the issues of the angry, hopeless, and emotionally damaged.

Most people just can't make sense of a reality where there is less free will and they have no control. Delusion or not, it works!

Sorry if I rambled or said some pointless things. Suppose I'm just wondering if it isn't so much other people dogmatically defending their world views as the other view isn't providing a practical alternative. (This applies to both concepts)



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 10:17 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

Yes, I agree, discussing anything with these people is a mug's game.

Those who adopt the extreme solipsist position turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy by becoming impossible to communicate with. At least, mercifully, their posts tend to be short and gnomic, easily ignored.

Those who simply believe they can construct reality according to their specifications are not solipsists, just optimistic self-deceivers who don't want to hear what you have to say for fear it will tear down their castle of dreams. Their posts tend to be aggressively defensive of their illusions, long-winded, verbose and confused. If they have intellectual pretensions they will mention Jung at some point. Unfortunately this type can't be so easily ignored.

Still, we all come to ATS to argue, don't we?

We don't?



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