Should We Try To Prevent War? The Bible Says No

originally posted by: randyvs
One truth awaits us
all. Without any consideration to what that truth will be, every human
being who passes from this existence, will have the same experience.
Even if it's no experience at all, the same thing happens to everyone.

In other words I'm not going to die and go to be with God and the
Angels and Jesus in Heaven. While you are just dead in your black
atheist abyss. Belief doesn't equal truth and neither does disbelief.
So isn't it pretty obvious I've made my choice for what I believe that
truth will be? After weighing all the options carefully, which I have?
Believe me no one does my thinking for me.

Ok, I just re-read that properly. Nicely put. While I disagree with your beliefs, I do agree with your outcome.

true, I have zero idea what happens and, honestly, I hope it INST nothingness or blackness or the void. I really do hope there is something more. And how does that match up to my atheist stance? I suppose it doesn't. But I'm also inquisitive and I *hate* not knowing things and it would totally suck if this was..."it", you know? We live, we die, nothing.

Seems rather pointless that we exits for such a micro cosmically infinitesimally small amount of time given the age and size of the universe.

You can just call me Randy if you like?

Cheers Randy. Regardless of our disagreements, I quite enjoy the debate with you.

a reply to: randyvs

Hey there, bud...my friend.

I'm just curious about why (in your opinion, which I value) the Nag Hammadi findings haven't been by now included/indexed into the Bible, like a new 'Edition'.

Do you not think they matter or are relevant?

Just wondering.




I had a horrible dream last night that some criminal (with blonde hair, whatever that's about!?) was prowling around the warehouse that he intended to overtake, and I happened to be in that warehouse, and up on the platform (a fire-escape landing sort of a thing, which apparently was handy as I had tried to hide, but he came up there to escape and found me) and the guy put a gun muzzle right above my nose, between my eyes....

and all I could think was, "Wait! I have children! Please don't!"

I woke up then, but in my conscious, waking mind I thought 'what if there's really nothing? Oh, God! What about my kids and mom and husband!' and hearing him say, "no worries, you won't feel a thing." This makes me very sad.

Anyway - don't know if it was wise to disclose this - but - folks, I truly am an agnostic. And I'm worried for all of us.

I've been thinking about this all day. Does it mean I will suddenly convert/believe? I don't know.
It does mean, however, that I'm still agnostic, and rather discombobulated about the whole thing.

I honestly don't see how ANY of us can know. We just don't know. And so, I remain agnostic.

a reply to: noonebutme

"Just because...just because.. just because".

What post are you reading? NM

Cheers Randy. Regardless of our disagreements, I quite enjoy the debate with you.

Oh you? Your timing is unmerciful. Right when I'm fed up with you. You slip
this response in on me?

All right you got me! LOL That was good.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Do you not think they matter or are relevant?

I think any example of ancient literature is a treasure and
absolutely relevant. What we need to be sure of always is
it's relevance to what.

a reply to: randyvs

I agree with you that it is ancient literature.
It is a treasure, for sure.

So, I understand it not being "updated", I truly do.

The problem I have is that modern people still think it is somehow 'complete' - I mean, considering how far we have come in the last 1500 years. Don't you think there's room for updated info in the religious world?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Well I do indeed and when things started out in the garden
it was more than just updates according to scripture. We had
a relationship with the person who created us, the garden and
the universe. So yeah I think we should recieve updates as you put
it. But the script lays out perfect reason for there not being any
updates right now.

Remember what Jesus last said on the cross for a clue.

It is finished.

a reply to: randyvs

It is finished.

But - does it really have to be??

We still have some temporal power, right here. We can prevent the Earth's destruction.....we can work together toward making sure that all living people are provided with a coat, food, shelter, etc.

Don't you think so? I just don't see the destruction of the world as a positive thing.....
when we can still postpone it. If we try, collectively, to do that.

Jesus said

You will hear the sound of war

And you will hear rumours of war

See that it does not trouble you

For these things must come to pass



Let them sin

For they have rejected the father

Let them Take as many souls with them as they can

For The father planned this long ago

That's why he sent his son

Jesus

So that some of his children would be spared

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Don't you think so? I just don't see the destruction of the world as a positive thing.....
when we can still postpone it. If we try, collectively, to do that.

You aren't wrong in what you're thinking! It's righteous for sure. The trouble is
where the thinking is from. Please I'm no authority, all I give you is how I've
reasoned it out in my own mind. Let me ask you something, you have a husband?
And I would be correct to assume you love him deeply. But there was a time
you did not. There was a time you didn't know him and therefore didn't trust
him. And over some time you both arrived mutually at a point where there
were no more questions. At least not needed for trust. There was a point
where he had your trust beyond question? All these questions you ask me
as if I'm to stupid to have ever gone down that path. And asked myself the exact
same questions? But what I refused to do was ask someone else. Because
I knew I would only get their answer. Believe me God awards patience.
When I would just give God my question? The answer never just popped
out of thin air. And sometimes the answer wouldn't come for years. But
you haven't lived until you've experienced that moment, when life
comes together in circumstance so perfectly and the answer hits you.
And you realise God has seen to your question. I don't do the feeling
justice at all with words. But you know it with out doubt. We are the ones
who chose to take on this world with out God. Without the guidance we
obviously lost. Where do you think the idea of an oracle came from in the
first place?

I digress and get carried off but I hope you at least understand that my
faith isn't as blind as people think. I think and reason like anyone else.
But the attitude is different.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

If everyone did as they ought, it wouldn't have to be, but people cannot live as they ought. So it will be.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

If everyone did as they ought, it wouldn't have to be, but people cannot live as they ought. So it will be.

I like that.

a reply to: randyvs

Why do you like that?



???????????????

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It was just her use of the word ought I suppose.

a reply to: randyvs

Let me ask you something, you have a husband?

On re-reading your earlier post....you asked me this, so I'd like to answer:

I do have a husband, yes. (I seem to have a talent for that, but - that's another topic....lol!!!)

And I would be correct to assume you love him deeply.

Relative to what?
In reality, mmmmm, no. I love my children deeply.

Do I love my husband in the same way I love my children? Nope. The children come first, every time.
I do, however, trust my husband, know him, and understand him. But, I am not his mother (she doesn't especially 'know him', btw). Perhaps your question would be more poignant and pointed in this discussion if you asked more about parental love.

Since, it's "God our Father", not, "God our Husband."

But there was a time you did not

True. There was also a time I didn't particularly like him, as a matter of fact. Sometimes those particular traits still rear their heads, but on balance, he's a very good man.

There was a time I didn't know my children, also - but, the first moment I looked into their eyes, that changed. I love them beyond words.

Elizabeth Stone — 'Making the decision to have a child - it is momentous. It is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body. '

And not in the same way has having a former lover out there. The heartbreak of your child being in trouble or lost or sick or gone or dead or lacking anything is FAR, FAR beyond "spousal love."

I think you're not a dad yet, though, right, randy? It's something I can't explain to anyone who hasn't yet become a parent. It's indescribable and magical. I think that's more in line with what you might be getting at with your question.



So - you see, "God" isn't my husband. "God" is supposedly my father.

BIG BIG difference between spouse and parent. As a parent I would never reject, abandon, give up on, belittle, condemn, or tell my children they are worthless. Never. EVER. No matter what they do, NE VER. It may well break my heart, but I will never reject or stop loving them.

Not so with adult lovers/spouses. Nope.

a reply to: randyvs

Ah, yes, 'ought' is a fine word, indeed. It was a remarkable turn of phrase (and I mean that most sincerely, ket) and powerful.

But in the end, the post made me think of shoulda coulda woulda oughta.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Since, it's "God our Father", not, "God our Husband."

But in the end, the post made me think of shoulda coulda woulda oughta.

I understand Buzz, always a pleasure.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So what does the bible say about those in authority, those who are waging these wars for profit? 1 Peter 2 13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. It tells us to obey all human authority, that includes the police, the town mayor, your states' governor, and all the way up to your president or king/queen.

Don't understand this the way you understand it.
Peters intent was to encourage the church's who were being persecuted at this time and this letter was directed to those of the Nazarene sect. Not to the general populace but only the religion of the Nazarene's.

Jesus taught to be meek and humble and to suffer unto death and this is what Peter is also teaching. I agree that Jesus taught to physically obey all authority but the header of your thread says or infers that a true Christ follower should not try to prevent wars. That is a little deceiving or at least it is to me. Jesus tried to prevent war by example of being righteous but He very well knew that it would not apply to almost everyone.

Your header leaves me a little confused as to what you mean. Is it to not partake in self defense or aggression because you and I both know that you cannot live without trying to defend yourself. I don't really believe Peter is saying this. I believe Peter is encouraging his people to not revolt or incite revolution but obey the conquerors knowing full well that to revolt or incite a revolt would be a slaughter of the Nazarene's by Rome.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So - you see, "God" isn't my husband. "God" is supposedly my father.

BIG BIG difference between spouse and parent. As a parent I would never reject, abandon, give up on, belittle, condemn, or tell my children they are worthless. Never. EVER. No matter what they do, NE VER. It may well break my heart, but I will never reject or stop loving them.

Not so with adult lovers/spouses. Nope.

Would this be a bad time to point out that at the end, Christ comes for His bride? the Church?

So, yes, we are referred to as God's children, but in the end, we are also Christ's Bride.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

So - you see, "God" isn't my husband. "God" is supposedly my father.

BIG BIG difference between spouse and parent. As a parent I would never reject, abandon, give up on, belittle, condemn, or tell my children they are worthless. Never. EVER. No matter what they do, NE VER. It may well break my heart, but I will never reject or stop loving them.

Not so with adult lovers/spouses. Nope.

Would this be a bad time to point out that at the end, Christ comes for His bride? the Church?

So, yes, we are referred to as God's children, but in the end, we are also Christ's Bride.

So we have a spouse (jesus) with some rather extreme daddy issues and a heavenly father who not only condones (and even orders) war between his children and ethnic cleansing, but likes taking sides in it.

Then if you don't measure up by blindly believing in something that not only has no evidence, but is clearly absurd, he will simply cast you adrift forever. This is something that most imperfect humans wouldn't do because, despite the imperfection, they are capable of love and compassion. Unlike god who, if we look in his book, seems quite an an @ss---le. Either that, or it isn't really a book inspired by god at all.....hmm tough choice that one.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well, I'm not sure why you ask if it'd be a 'bad time' to point out what you believe - anytime is fine, if that's what's on your mind, fire away!

As for me, I have a mom, my dad has moved on to the spirit side of things, and I'm already married.
I do believe we are all, collectively, the Source experiencing itself (experimenting on itself?), as is every grain of sand, drop of water, blade of grass, black hole, cloud nebula, planet, geyser, giant redwood, catfish, bird, earth-worm, elephant, dolphin, octopus and flea -----

Wait. I guess...not so sure about fleas, mosquitoes, and ticks, to be honest. Or poison ivy. At least flies clean up after us. You get my drift. Although when it comes to those nuisances (as well as viruses and bacteria) - I suppose they are the Source's way of managing the population.


ANYhoo - just because the bible says we should not try to stop war, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop war. In my opinion.

Then again, mankind seems to be wired for violence and war - so, in that sense --

/shrug