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'Innocent Until Proven Muslim' conference in Australia

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posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 05:01 AM
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A conference organised by the hardline Islamic group Hizb ut-Tahrir is underway for Muslim groups to discuss what they say has been unjustified Government intervention within their community to deal with terrorism.

The conference, part of a campaign entitled Innocent Until Proven Muslim, is underway in Bankstown in south-west Sydney.

The group's media spokesman Uthman Badar told the conference the Muslim community has been what he described as violated in a bid to deal with the threat of terrorism.

Mr Badar said the level of hysteria and intimidation towards the Australian Muslim community has reached new levels with women and children now being targeted.

He said attempts at de-radicalisation are nothing more than an agenda of forced assimilation justified by exaggerated fears of a security threat.
(Link)

Another article relating to the topic at hand:
Muslim children should not be forced to sing national anthem, says Hizb ut-Tahrir

I don't think those organising this conference have thoroughly thought things through. I am all for ending violence, harassment and prejudice against everyday Muslims living in Australia, and ensuring they can live and function in a safe and pleasant environment, but I struggle to agree that "forced assimilation" should be seen as a bad thing. Everyone else is expected to assimilate when they emigrate into another country, why should Australian Muslims be exempt?

Nobody is asking everyday Muslims to fully let go of their cultural/religious heritage and fully immerse themselves in Australian culture. What is expected of them is to obey Australian laws and uphold Australian values and adhere to social norms to the best of their ability. Nothing short of that expectation would be accepted from Australians immigrating into other countries.


edit on 2/11/2015 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)



+10 more 
posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 05:07 AM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

Forced assimilation?

Why are you there if not to assimilate?



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 05:12 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That's what I am trying to figure out. What exactly is your purpose for immigrating if you have no intention of assimilating?


+3 more 
posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 05:14 AM
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originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That's what I am trying to figure out. What exactly is your purpose for immigrating if you have no intention of assimilating?


There are only two alternatives. You assimilate or you change Australia to be like the country you left.

If they admit they have no intention on assimilating, that is worrisome.


+14 more 
posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 05:24 AM
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I have quite a few Muslim friends here in Australia (and abroad) & we have had some very "colourful" conversations about this as well as many other related topics.

So I'll say here what I say to them and any other Muslim in my company who engages me in debate - "transparency is the key to your freedom so you have nothing to fear from us, unless you are hiding something from us, so if you will not assimilate into Australian culture 100%, you will be viewed as an invader - it's your call. We are not America and you will do well to review the Cronulla riots and how Australians deal with extremist Muslims when the law enforcement cannot - watch the documentary "Bra Boys" and don't ever mistake our kindness for weakness"

Do I make myself clear - you will be given a fair go but if you circumvent, disrespect or take advantage of that for nefarious purposes....then suffer the consequences.

Indeed, peace-loving moderate Muslims have nothing to fear from Australians - it's the extremists in your midst that will bring you harm when they hide among you spreading their hate behind closed doors resulting in the authorities treating you all like extremists......until you prove otherwise.

Sad, but true.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 05:51 AM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

Exactly. If you want to be a Muslim be a Muslim. But be an australian Muslim. If you want to be a Middle East Muslim ... live in the ME. If you choose terrorism .. sufer.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 06:01 AM
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Indeed, peace-loving moderate Muslims have nothing to fear from Australians

Nothing to fear from a fraction of Australians you mean? I can completely understand why these Muslims are afraid, Australia is racist as hell when it comes to Muslims or anyone who wears a turban on their head, I know this from personal experience. Even normal everyday Australians harbour this deep seeded hate which I think is mainly fueled by sensationalist media. It's like they cannot tell the difference between a Muslim and a terrorist, it's just all the same thing to them. I've even heard my family members talk about wiping Muslim nations of the face of the Earth with nukes, they're talking about bombing and killing millions of people with a smile on their face and they cannot even realise how disgusting it is. If I dare to call them out on it I'm suddenly unaustralian or something, probably a terrorist in their mind. Even your mentioning of Cronulla riots and Bra Boys I find very distasteful, like some sort of macho warning that they must fit in with your culture or be viewed as some sort of foreign invader.
edit on 2/11/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 06:04 AM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

Im not surprised lots are not assimilating, certain suburbs in western Sydney almost entirely consist of migrants from the middle east,Asia, Africa and india. In some places you wouldn't even know your in Australia, and we all know what happens when muslims self segregate.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 06:13 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Sounds like your family has been influenced by some muslim hating bogans.

As for your other point, not assimilating into a foreign society can be seen as a sort of passive invasion, long story short if you migrate you have respect your new countries laws, customs, traditions etc, etc otherwise you can get out.

p.s assimilating into society does not mean abandoning your own culture.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 06:16 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Exactly. If you want to be a Muslim be a Muslim. But be an australian Muslim. If you want to be a Middle East Muslim ... live in the ME. If you choose terrorism .. sufer.


Perfectly worded.

star for that


+9 more 
posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 06:40 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

It's unfortunate you feel disgusted by my comments, but that's not my problem. Do you recall what sparked the Cronulla riots?

...and yes - the bra boys stopped what would have eventually been a lynching of all Muslims in New South Wales and maybe even country wide - which was quickly getting out of control - the police contacted Koby to sort it out when they (the police) failed to quell the Lebanese from rampaging through the streets - fact.

like some sort of macho warning that they must fit in with your culture or be viewed as some sort of foreign invader

No, you miss the point - they can just not come here to begin with if they are not willing to enjoy our freedoms and assimilate 100% into our culture - but instead what those particular individuals can do is go and find a culture more suited to their way of life - like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Afghanistan. If this particular demographic come into Australia wanting all the rights and privileges thereof, then that blessing comes with conditions - first and foremost being assimilation and respect.

Your disgusted feelings aside, It's really that simple - my house - my rules.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 06:45 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder




Australia is racist as hell when it comes to Muslims or anyone who wears a turban on their head, I know this from personal experience. Even normal everyday Australians harbour this deep seeded hate which I think is mainly fueled by sensationalist media. It's like they cannot tell the difference between a Muslim and a terrorist, it's just all the same thing to them.



That has got to be one of the most narrow minded statements i have ever read....do you really believe what you just wrote ?

It is akin to me making a statement like all Americans are gun tottin rednecks....


On topic...the energy would be better spent weeding out those among them that wish to do harm,in my opinion anyway that would be more effective than holding a rally and complaining......



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 06:58 AM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft


but instead what those particular individuals can do is go and find a culture more suited to their way of life - like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Afghanistan.

So by that logic you should only be allowed to live in a westernized nation because the people there are more like you? Why does everyone have to be the same and behave the same way? What is the threshold for how Australian a person must be to live in Australia? Can they wear their own clothes or build their own religious buildings? Seems to me we should just let them be who they want to be and let them live in peace unless they explicitly break the law.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


That has got to be one of the most narrow minded statements i have ever read....do you really believe what you just wrote ?

It's not a matter of belief, it's simply what I have observed, especially in the last few years. I'm not saying all Australians or even most are like that, I just said a fraction are like that, which is clearly true.
edit on 2/11/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)


+4 more 
posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 07:26 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

you:

Why does everyone have to be the same and behave the same way? What is the threshold for how Australian a person must be to live in Australia? Can they wear their own clothes or build their own religious buildings?


Me:

they can just not come here to begin with if they are not willing to enjoy our freedoms and assimilate 100% into our culture


You see, your "collective judgement" mentality is clouding your ability to correctly digest what I am saying - did you miss this point I made in the opening few words of my first post.....I have quite a few Muslim friends here in Australia (and abroad) - they can build their personal architecture to keep close to their nostalgic customs - as long as those customs do not result in eroding ours or harming anyone - aka: assimilating - just like kiwis, Europeans, South Africans and many many many others that now call Australia home.

I really can't make it more simple than that - unless I'm mistaken you appear to be reading my words, ignoring some of them and putting the rest into a pre-conceived narrative you have about this whole topic?



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 07:29 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That's what I am trying to figure out. What exactly is your purpose for immigrating if you have no intention of assimilating?


There are only two alternatives. You assimilate or you change Australia to be like the country you left.

If they admit they have no intention on assimilating, that is worrisome.


It's an interesting question, did those who colonised Australia assimilate into the Aboriginal culture - no, of course they didn't because they believed theirs to be superior.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 07:42 AM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

Good OP!

Yea, its hard to understand isn't it.

I'm guessing what you're going to see before long is that the "Elites" that run Australia will soon come out in a sort of sideways propaganda campaign and decry "assimilation" as racist and something that's advocated only by nativist xenophobes.

What's really going on here is that the "Elites" that run Australia have sold out to the Globalist agenda and one of the key pieces of that agenda is to undo the old concepts of nationalism. They've discovered that Muslim immigrants to a largely secular or secular/Christian country work wonders in that respect because they refuse to assimilate. Thus, they and other groups who refuse to assimilate work to erode national identity.

If that analysis seems somehow wrong to you, ask yourself the question.......why have the Elites that run Australia embraced Muslim immigration into Australia? What purpose does it serve? For generations, Australia has had very, very strict and restrictive immigration policies. Now that has all changed? Ask yourself, "whats up with that"? And, are you noticing they seem to have targeted certain ethnic or religious groups to liberalize the immigration rules for?

Before long...as things continue to develop, you'll probably come to recognize a pattern developing.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 07:48 AM
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Like any Abrahamic religion, they are right and everyone else is wrong. They see themselves as gods chosen, just like the other two do. And they will always see those outside their faith as lesser than them. They want privileged status in Australia, and they feel they deserve that status. They want Australians to change according to their faith and lifestyle, instead of the other way around.
The good thing is, some Muslims are able to understand they are in a host country, and adjust accordingly, but you're always going to have just as many who refuse to adjust, and will cry persecution when you won't bend over backward for them and their god.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 08:11 AM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft


they can build their personal architecture to keep close to their nostalgic customs - as long as those customs do not result in eroding ours or harming anyone - aka: assimilating

Ok that is a good point, I mean I wouldn't want to see pork banned or something. But unless they get into politics or something I don't see how that could happen. And what even counts as eroding our customs? Some would say that building their own religious buildings or selling their own food products in our stores erodes our own customs. It seems like quite a subjective thing to me.


I really can't make it more simple than that - unless I'm mistaken you appear to be reading my words, ignoring some of them and putting the rest into a pre-conceived narrative you have about this whole topic?

I think we agree for the most part, I'm just saying that I think they have a right to be concerned because racial tensions seem extremely high right now and I think the MSM plays a major role in that. I think it's quite appalling when even Muslim women and children are being victimized and I have no delusions about how racist Australians can be. Some times it helps to empathize with the other side.
edit on 2/11/2015 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft




I have quite a few Muslim friends here in Australia (and abroad) & we have had some very "colourful" conversations about this as well as many other related topics. So I'll say here what I say to them and any other Muslim in my company who engages me in debate - "transparency is the key to your freedom so you have nothing to fear from us, unless you are hiding something from us, so if you will not assimilate into Australian culture 100%, you will be viewed as an invader - it's your call. We are not America and you will do well to review the Cronulla riots and how Australians deal with extremist Muslims when the law enforcement cannot - watch the documentary "Bra Boys" and don't ever mistake our kindness for weakness" Do I make myself clear - you will be given a fair go but if you circumvent, disrespect or take advantage of that for nefarious purposes....then suffer the consequences. Indeed, peace-loving moderate Muslims have nothing to fear from Australians - it's the extremists in your midst that will bring you harm when they hide among you spreading their hate behind closed doors resulting in the authorities treating you all like extremists......until you prove otherwise. Sad, but true.


Would you say the same thing to Chinese,Japanese,African and/or South American immigrants? I'm not implying your a xenophobe, I'm seriously asking if there's some consistency to your words. All I can think of when I read this;


edit on 2-11-2015 by NateTheAnimator because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-11-2015 by NateTheAnimator because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 09:22 AM
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originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That's what I am trying to figure out. What exactly is your purpose for immigrating if you have no intention of assimilating?


There are only two alternatives. You assimilate or you change Australia to be like the country you left.

If they admit they have no intention on assimilating, that is worrisome.


It's an interesting question, did those who colonised Australia assimilate into the Aboriginal culture - no, of course they didn't because they believed theirs to be superior.

Ahh so because a few hundred years ago people came here and did not take up boomerangs and nomadic lifestyle, we should just sit back and let Australia be overtaken by another foreign culture that has no intention of being part of the country they chose to move to.

Got it. Sounds stupid to me, but that's the entire basis of your logic.



edit on 2-11-2015 by laminatedsoul because: (no reason given)



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