It's time to wake up!

originally posted by: UniFinity
you seem to be so sure about everything and seems to know a lot about frameworks and how they are just ideas...I wonder what experience you had to conclude that or is that just ego and imagination talking?

It plain to see. No special powers needed.

This is real stuff. But it is for a person to find out on his own. That is why at the beginning I sad you must have proof of your own. Things are EXACTLY defined. But you make a mistake, thinking that all there is to know is written there. Real teaching are rare even today on the net and in the link is just tip of the iceberg.

I never said that all there is to know is written here and I have proof of my own.

It makes no difference how much deeper you think the subject goes, your links show the same type of words that you used here.

We have come full circle now, right back to the beginning of our debate about self evidence!

That was never really the subject, just misunderstanding on your part, that you admitted a couple pages back.

This is perfect time to end our debate.

It isn't really a debate. It is a conversation.

It plain to see. No special powers needed.

aha sure!

many millions of people who are or were in the past experiencing all this and much more have just wiled imagination. That is laughable and arrogant to think that way. To deny something which you had not probably even tried or have no experience of is foolishness or ignorance and nothing else.

And considering, especially because true spiritual people are by nature honest and non material, so they have nothing to gain by lies and everything to lose by talking non truths.

Yes, you make a lot of sense. This is plain to see and no special powers needed!

originally posted by: UniFinity
many millions of people who are or were in the past experiencing all this and much more have just wiled imagination. That is laughable and arrogant to think that way.

I see reading comprehension is also not your strong suit.

Making your experiences fit into an existing framework does not mean that you did not have those experiences, it also doesn't mean that other's have not had those experiences.

To deny something which you had not probably even tried or have no experience of is foolishness or ignorance and nothing else.

What part of "I have experienced it" are you having trouble with?

And considering, especially because true spiritual people are by nature honest and non material, so they have nothing to gain by lies and everything to lose by talking non truths.

Sorry, but, it is obvious that you have read more than you have meditated and you want everything in those old texts to be true.

Yes, you make a lot of sense. This is plain to see and no special powers needed!

You should always apply logic instead of looking to masters with blind faith.

What part of "I have experienced it" are you having trouble with?

what is IT? This is not saying much apart from OBE, what else?
elaborate please so we can see if you have valid ground to stand on?

Sorry, but, it is obvious that you have read more than you have meditated and you want everything in those old texts to be true.

and your imagination is at work here again.
You do not know that about me and have no way of knowing, what if you have meditated to little, hehe

originally posted by: UniFinity
what is IT? This is not saying much apart from OBE, what else?
elaborate please so we can see if you have valid ground to stand on?

Well I'm gonna need to know what millions of people have experienced to see if they have valid ground to stand on.

In my experience meditation is a step below OBE because the silence that one can attain during meditation leads to OBE.

and your imagination is at work here again.
You do not know that about me and have no way of knowing, what if you have meditated to little, hehe

What if I have, are you saying that my experiences are just wild imagination?

You are trying to hard to hold on to what you want to believe.

I recognize it because I did it with christianity. When I started experiencing OBEs they where not OBEs like those godless buddhists and their kind have, it was god calling to me to preach his truth.

That was me shoehorning my experiences to a framework. Now do you understand?

originally posted by: EternalFire
We are so caught up in the "self identity" now of days. The world is full of hatred and violence as well as greed and egotism. We need to get in touch with the true self.. the collective self. In order to survive as a human species on this planet.. a shift in perspective is needed.

Agreed, the 3rd nostril has been calcified for quite some time. No need for a kick in the nuts, a squeegee will do.

a reply to: daskakik
I respect you for your honesty if all is true and I was joking about what I said of your meditations, hence hehe.
Never ever did I imagine you for anything more or less than your written words.

Maybe I did not said it here before. But I know that I know nothing. Beliefs are of no importance to me, so the stuff which I read is only information, I abide in myself. Experience is what matter for me and here even logic fails in comparison. Some things are so far from logic that it can not apply, like god for instance.

never have I conversed, as you say, in such manner with anybody on-line, it way enjoying experience. Thanks!

originally posted by: UniFinity
I respect you for your honesty if all is true and I was joking about what I said of your meditations, hence hehe.

I wasn't. Have you read Thomas Campbell's My Big TOE?

I'll be honest, I started reading it but it bored me. At the beginning of the book he talks about transendental meditation. Long story short, according to him, he's a natural. First time sat down, said his mantra, reached nothingness and before he knew it 20 minutes had passed.

A westerner with no upbringing, training or long difficult apprenticeship in the technique.

Maybe I did not said it here before. But I know that I know nothing. Beliefs are of no importance to me, so the stuff which I read is only information, I abide in myself.

I want to believe you but you keep pointing at different schools as authorities.

The experiences described there are no better or worse than anyone elses. The conclusions offered may be incorrect.

Experience is what matter for me and here even logic fails in comparison. Some things are so far from logic that it can not apply, like god for instance.

I think this depends on context.

In order to apply logic to god you have to meet him/her/it.

But, to apply logic to the stories told about god, is a totally different situation.

The same applies to any story.

after consideration I have decided to post this. But this is only so that I can explain some things and you will not dragged me into another long conversation, so I will not replay, sorry, take from it what you want

I wasn't. Have you read Thomas Campbell's My Big TOE?
I'll be honest, I started reading it but it bored me. At the beginning of the book he talks about transendental meditation. Long story short, according to him, he's a natural. First time sat down, said his mantra, reached nothingness and before he knew it 20 minutes had passed.
A westerner with no upbringing, training or long difficult apprenticeship in the technique.

that is laughable and far from the stuff I am saying here!

What I am taking about is life time of devotion and purification. In the west this concept is totally lost and people are not interested because it is to much effort required to have a truly spiritual life. In link bellow I have given you an example of how things are from the prospective of a true devotee and this are only the basic of body purification! the mind and spirit comes after this or together if you want to do it for years or a lifetime.

www.meditationexpert.com...

I have fasted for 20 day on water, with amazing result and will do it again very soon for longer probably, depending on the body...

So spare me please, this foolish people who think they have gold but in truth only rocks...

But TM meditation is good and I do not have anything against it. But I have something against the people who thinks that they achieved something from one experience. This is a long process!

I want to believe you but you keep pointing at different schools as authorities.
The experiences described there are no better or worse than anyone elses. The conclusions offered may be incorrect.

again I must warn you that you do NOT know anything about me. This is just one aspect of what you see of me from my posts and also from what you imagine of this posts. You can not realize who am I in reality and what do I do and read. and for your information, I read everything!!
From spiritual text all over the world - age here is not important, the truth is. But today it is perverted by a large amount due to people who like it easy.
to science and nature, to the universe, to psychology and human body, conciousness ...there probably is not a thing which I am not interested in and it is outside of mainstream. I read everything but take it as an info and not the truth! The truth is for me only based on wisdom within that connects stuff from knowledge I read.
My hunger is bottomless when it comes to knowledge!
Why be picky if we have the internet I say

So I have read A LOT of various spiritual books from the oldest religions like Hinduism to modern like Christianity or Islam and everything in between and A LOT about energy, kundalini and so on. OH and I am meditating a lot and every day for years. Never ever have I left this side of spirituality. So please do not imagine you know something just from few posts. You know just my words all else is on you and wiled imagination.

Why have I then pointed out this things and not something else, you may wander?
Because kundalini and prana are just the basic and are encountered soon after you get somewhere real in meditation. This is not just some framework like you say. But is known from ages and even to today, people are experiencing it just like they teach. And they teach the same stuff everywhere in Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Zen. They just have different labels and methods to achieving true self-realization.

Some old Indian yogis say that to measure the extent how far one progress in spirituality is by knowing what is happening inside the body! Food for thought...
We have various chakras and we need to clean them in order to get anywhere in spirituality. This is the basics - the body, all other comes after...and this will be happening for anyone who has found total silence in deep mediation and if he or she continues to meditate.
This is the wake up thread after all. And this process is at the start of waking up, from my experiences, mind you.

But what is the real usefulness of spirituality if you are only meditating, one may ask?
Well first you have to help yourself to help others in the best way possible.
Can you with knowledge of advaita vedanta help others and lead them to the light all the time without any doubt of right or wrong? I think not. Oh I am the same, I am far from being so wise, but hope I will be one day! This is the true goal of every spiritualist! Love and compassion for all beings all the time.
And I am not deluding myself that only intellectual understanding of the reality is enough, practical experiences must be there to or knowledge about the real self is not complete. Saints, yogies, sufies, zen masters, christian saint...what do they have in common. They can all preform various miracles, but that is not even the point. The point is that they can really help everybody who encounters them and that is why they are so influential even today 2000 years after death.

Did Jesus, just wake up and be saint? he had a lot of training to do. His full history is lost and there are many year before he returned not accounted for. Many theories are that he went to India or somewhere else to train and get self-realized. And the fast he did in the desert for 40 days...
You may think that Jesus was one of a kind. But from Hindu or Buddhist prospective, this is laughable. He was "just" one of many fully self realized beings. And the same with Buddha, Milarepa or Lao Tzu, which are one of the most popular examples. But there are masters even today who are like THEM and can do miracles and know everything. This is the final realization and some have it even today and many more in the past! But this is not known to the west...and many devotees are one various level of self-realization...

The truth is that religions were made by such people and than after they left material world, people after them perverted original teachings and because of that we have little real knowledge available. But it still remains in the heads of masters who are in Tibet or India or somewhere far far away from mainstream. But close to true devotees who are also spreading real knowledge by writing books about their experiences.

So are there just stories or not, it is for everyone to decide for himself. For me they certainly are not and spiritual powers and complete self-realization is the ultimate goal.
YOGA

a reply to: UniFinity
You are a spiritual seeker - you are seeking for something. And if you see that others doubt you, defending happens - you believe you have something that others don't and have an idea of a goal.
You are seeking but you have not found.
The 'true self' is not somewhere hiding waiting to be found. All that belief that there is something special to be got has you seeking - that seeking is what hides what is always here.
Seeking does not seek here - seeking is moving away - a pulling away - you are desiring certain things, special states.
But you are already what every experience arises in. Even the seeking can be noticed by that still peaceful presence.

When you recognize yourself as the peaceful, still backdrop to every experience and no longer imagine yourself to be a person looking for some thing - the game is up.

originally posted by: daskakik

First time sat down, said his mantra, reached nothingness and before he knew it 20 minutes had passed.

No one can reach nothingness - but someone can disappear and nothing is left.
'And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.' Exodus 33:20

That nothingness does not appear but is ever present - a mantra or meditation can reveal the nothingness.

originally posted by: UniFinity
after consideration I have decided to post this. But this is only so that I can explain some things and you will not dragged me into another long conversation, so I will not replay, sorry, take from it what you want

No problem.

What I am taking about is life time of devotion and purification.

Of course it isn't what you are saying, that is the whole point. To show the opposite of your claim.

So spare me please, this foolish people who think they have gold but in truth only rocks...

That could be you. You sure go out of your way to put others down.

again I must warn you that you do NOT know anything about me.

Right, I can only comment on what you show here. That is what I am commenting on.

You don't know how much in those old texts is true. All they have is experiences that sound similar to yours. You don't know if their conclusions are right.

The problem is that you expect us to put as much faith into them as you have. That is zealotry.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
No one can reach nothingness - but someone can disappear and nothing is left.

Not my words but still I must say that I don't share your penchant for using "nothingness" only according to your definition.

'And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.' Exodus 33:20

The bible?

That nothingness does not appear but is ever present - a mantra or meditation can reveal the nothingness.

At some point will you realize that people might be describing different things?

originally posted by: daskakik

That nothingness does not appear but is ever present - a mantra or meditation can reveal the nothingness.

At some point will you realize that people might be describing different things?

What sort of things do you think they are describing when they speak of nothingness?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
What sort of things do you think they are describing when they speak of nothingness?

Who?

a reply to: daskakik
I have no idea 'who'.
You have written that 'At some point will you realize that people might be describing different things?' - those people??

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
You have written that 'At some point will you realize that people might be describing different things?' - those people??

Oh, that would be me.

In that case, anything other than what you are trying to describe.

a reply to: daskakik
How would you describe nothing?
I have not been describing nothing and would never try.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
How would you describe nothing?

However I wish, depending on context even, if it isn't to your liking.

I have not been describing nothing and would never try.

But you are quick to interject your thoughts about the concept whenever someone brings it up and, sometimes, even when someone is not even talking about the nothing you are referring to.

Then again some people, like the OP and UniFinity, are referring to that nothing that eastern traditions go on and on about. In that case an exchange might be warranted but it still doesn't mean that it is the ultimate truth.