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It's time to wake up!

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posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:28 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Doesn't matter, whatever they saw was different.




posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:29 AM
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a reply to: daskakik
No honesty - that is what is seen here!


edit on 24-11-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:40 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

No, different people can see things differently. Just because they don't agree with you doesn't make someone dishonest.

Example: I was standing out on a balcony with my father-in-law and my brother-in-law and a muscle car went by. My brother-in-law pointed it out and said that is a cool car, red is the perfect color for that car. I didn't say anything but my father in law said, it was orange. My brother-in-law asked, you saw it right? I said, yes, it was cherry red. My father-in-law insisted that it was orange.

He gains nothing by stating that it was orange, it was just how he saw it.



edit on 24-11-2015 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 03:00 AM
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originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: daskakik
No honesty - that is what is seen here!


But according to your logic you can't blame anyone, since we have no control.
If i would call you an anoying idiot, it wasn't my free will to do so, it just happened... Lol just an example, you're funny, no hard feelings...



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 03:50 AM
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When it comes to direct experience, it is the same for everyone. So if everyone is truly looked at their own DE's they would come to the same seeing that there is no control.




Before they are manifest doesn't mean that there isn't any control. That is an argument from ignorance.

If by control, you mean desire, then yes there is control in that sense. But there is obviously no control of thoughts themselves because they are determined before they become conscious. If people looked into their direct experiences, they would all see the same thing. Thoughts just popping up, no control over what the next one will be. It feels real for sure, doesn't mean it is.

If there is control free from ANY circumstance or cause, tell me where it would be found.
edit on 24-11-2015 by Andy1144 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:23 AM
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If they won't look then why bother - remember the post you sent me on another thread??

Maybe it's not so much for them. I just do it for fun. Not too long ago I was in the same position where I thought we had free will and my mind came up with so many reasons as to why there is free will opposed to not. Every argument that went against free will was plain illogical. I wanted to believe there was free will out of fear, but for the love of truth I came to the conclusion that there is no such thing. Not because that's what I wanted to believe, but because it was true. Talking to these people reminds me of my past self and I can catch subconscious patterns of my past activating when talking to such people and I can become more conscious of any remaining ignorance. So it's more for my selfish own reasons rather then for someone else. Although if someone does benefit from it then great.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:31 AM
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a reply to: Andy1144

Nobody benefits from that. You're denying responsibility for your actions. That's just wrong.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:35 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

Never said we should deny personal responsibility. Sure it's an illusion but when you accidentally hit someone you say I'm sorry. You don't just say, hey it was my brain that did it. We can still talk about self control and take some level responsibility for our actions because it is needed to function. We still take bad people to jail even though they were ultimately unlucky to have been brought up with those genetics and influences.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:36 AM
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a reply to: Andy1144

It is no illusion.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:40 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

On the relative, no it isn't. On the absolute there is no free will and consequentially no responsibility. I won't get into this any further as I've explained enough.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:51 AM
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a reply to: Andy1144

You mean you contradicted yourself enough? Agreed.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 04:52 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

Yes.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 05:33 AM
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originally posted by: Andy1144
a reply to: Peeple

Never said we should deny personal responsibility. Sure it's an illusion but when you accidentally hit someone you say I'm sorry. You don't just say, hey it was my brain that did it. We can still talk about self control and take some level responsibility for our actions because it is needed to function. We still take bad people to jail even though they were ultimately unlucky to have been brought up with those genetics and influences.


This gem of wordsalad alone makes one scratch the head in awe...5 sentences and you manage to go against your own logic 3 times!
It also makes me wonder, is that what you do? "Accidently" hitting people? Thankfully we never met, or will meet in person...
edit on 24-11-2015 by Peeple because: Add



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 05:58 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

The topic of free will is an issue with more then one variables which when stated can contradict each other. For example it is said that a person cannot be ultimately responsible for being a villain because his brain and upbringings completely structured his brain to be that way. And if you were influenced in the complete same ways as him, you would end up making the same decisions as well. Now based on your logic, if this is true then it would contradict to still send the bad guy to jail. It does, but it doesn't invalidate anything. It does contradict but no points are made invalid without existing in accordance with logic. The bad guy still goes to jail albeit having no absolute responsibility independent from any influences.



Thankfully we never met, or will meet in person...

Because I'd probably "accidentally" punch you in the face.
edit on 24-11-2015 by Andy1144 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 06:11 AM
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a reply to: Andy1144

Yeah, but knowing you would help, seeing it as you are just an animal with no self control or free will...
That's just what wild rats do, right? They bite...

Lmao! Do you read what you write? I mean....hilarious!!! If any of your "logic" were true we would all just go around, hit, rape and rob eachother, must be hell where you live. Do you have a conscience? Do you know what that is?



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

I meant that as a joke but did you read this part?

"Never said we should deny personal responsibility. Sure it's an illusion but when you accidentally hit someone you say I'm sorry. You don't just say, hey it was my brain that did it."

There is compassion for one another even more after realizing there is no true responsibility free from influence. Can we still talk about self control? As I said earlier yes, such things are useful to a human. I am just saying whether you choose to have self control or not, ultimately it depends on your brain structure at that moment and the trillions of influences it underwent which were completely out of your control. Self control does exist, but not any control over whether we have it or not.

Knowing we had no ultimate free will would promote compassion and would decrease violence.
edit on 24-11-2015 by Andy1144 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 06:27 AM
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a reply to: Andy1144

Knowing you are responsible and compassion would decrease violence.

I can't allow myself to follow every urge and impuls, or i will be outcasted by society, that decreases violence also.

Knowing i will be persecuted and punished forces me to take responsibility for my actions. That decreases violence also.

Can you give any example how and where claiming to have no free will would?
It would lead to a society full of villains.

Everybody has self control, everybody can use it.

edit on 24-11-2015 by Peeple because: Add



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 06:53 AM
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a reply to: Peeple

Here, you have a detailed analyses of no free will and what it's implications are and hits the nail of what I've been saying so far.

www.samharris.org...
edit on 24-11-2015 by Andy1144 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 07:52 AM
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a reply to: Andy1144

Okay he definetly makes more sense than you. Doesn't mean i agree with someone who is pro torture, an islamophobist and thinks it is the jews fault the holocaust happened...

So back to the free will: no matter what you or he says it is an important part of personal responsibility and there are many examples of people rising above their learned and inherited behaviour. Sam Harris f.e., brought up by religious people, if he had no free will, how did he become a critic of secularism? Inherited and taught behaviour should have guided him in a different direction, right?



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 10:54 AM
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a reply to: Peeple




if he had no free will, how did he become a critic of secularism? Inherited and taught behaviour should have guided him in a different direction, right?
Right, but thats not what w
As meant. People can choose to change their beliefs through will but only if he was influenced in some way to make that choice.




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