Russian civilian aircraft goes off radar, reportedly crashes over Egypt

The UK government seem to think something was put in the cargo hold. They are today flying home the 20,000 Brits from Sharm although there baggage is being flown home separately on cargo planes.

US/UK Say intercepted communication in the area in the days before the crash suggest a major terrorist attack was being planned.

BREAKING: Egyptian Authorities refuse permission to land for British rescue flights. British passengers to be sent back to hotels again. Easyjet say "situation has changed".

It doesn't matter what the cause really is now. Because the US and British said it was a bomb it had to be a bomb and anything else is a cover up.

originally posted by: ashpack
The UK government seem to think something was put in the cargo hold. They are today flying home the 20,000 Brits from Sharm although there baggage is being flown home separately on cargo planes.

Only a idiot would apply for that gig.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Some cargo pilot is going to have a few stressful hours to regret hitting on the Commanders wife at the Christmas Party.

a reply to: ashpack

link

Chaos in Sharm el-Sheikh: rescue planes are forced to turn back, as Russian plane crash investigator suggests a 'sound of explosion' on black boxes - latest news

Russia has stopped it's flights now too.
english.pravda.ru...
They are also saying the CVR confirms an explosion took place and there was no mechanical faults. How they can draw that conclusion from that I don't know.
m.france24.com...

a reply to: ashpack

I'll be curious to see how this all pans out, seeing as I'll be off the grid hunting in rural Texas all weekend...

originally posted by: SonOfThor
a reply to: ashpack

I'll be curious to see how this all pans out, seeing as I'll be off the grid hunting in rural Texas all weekend...

Well.....it's looking more and more like it was a bomb . After everything Russia said about England stopping flights then doing the same themselves a short time later says a lot.

a reply to: ashpack

I've been leaning towards the bomb theory as well, but it surprises me that Vladimir Putin has taken this long to come around. He was reported to have had a tense conversation with British PM David Cameron because the UK suspended flights to Egypt:

Vladimir Putin has today suspended all flights to Egypt hours after accusing David Cameron of leaping to conclusions about a Russian jet being brought down by a bomb.

The Russian President's U-turn came after a 10-minute phone call with Mr Cameron where he suggested Britain's decision to ban flights to and from Sharm el-Sheikh was premature.

Despite the tension between the two leaders, the Prime Minister still shared British intelligence he believes proves the disaster in Eqypt which killed 224 people on Saturday was caused by an explosion.

MI5 intercepted 'chatter' between known terrorists on the Sinai Peninsula and secret services on the ground in Sharm will interrogate Egyptian baggage handlers who may have smuggled in an ISIS bomb.

Less that 24 hours later Russia's most senior spy Alexander Bortnikov has recommended that all Russian flights to Egypt should be suspended on safety grounds and Mr Putin has agreed.

The move comes as French media claimed information from the black boxes proved the jet was destroyed by a bomb. An unnamed source reportedly linked to the investigation into the flight data recorders claimed the Metrojet flight was 'definitely' blown up by an explosive device.

Then there's this little tidbit, also from the Daily Mail (same report) - which seems to conflict with the above:

The claims were reported by French news magazine Le Point, which said the findings emerged after analysis of the black boxes by Russian, French, German and Irish investigators in Cairo.

The source, who has not been independently verified, said: 'It was not a probable security violation but a definite one.
However, the claims by Le point also come amid reports that another source close to the investigation said the black boxes were yielding almost no useful information on establishing the cause of the disaster which claimed the lives of 224 people.

Daily Mail

I realize the DM isn't the best source but at times they have good info. Then there's this tidbit from Russia Today:

"As long as we haven’t established the causes of the incident, I consider it appropriate to suspend the flights of Russian aircraft to Egypt. This primarily applies to the tourist flow,” FSB director Aleksandr Bortnikov told a meeting of the Russian Anti-Terror Committee on Friday.

and, further down in the RT report:

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that Putin agreed with the recommendations of the Federal Security Service (FSB). He added that Putin had instructed the government to ensure the safe return of Russian citizens from Egypt and to cooperate with the Egyptian authorities on establishing air traffic security.

The flights will be suspended until a “proper level of air communication security” is established, he said.

Peskov said that the decision to suspend flights was “solely connected with security” reasons, and doesn’t suggest that Moscow considers the A321 crash to be a terrorist attack.

Russia Today

So why would the FSB Director say they haven't established the causes of the "incident," (his words) and yet say they need to suspend flights to Egypt? I mean, why suspend these flights w/o establishing the cause of the crash (so they claim)?

What did PM Cameron reveal to Putin to help him change his mind about the cause of the crash?

I suspect there is more to this story than we are being told. I would like to know the specifics of said "intelligence" and whether they believe more attacks are forthcoming. Perhaps that is why British tourists are being forced to travel home without their luggage (except for carry-ons), which will be shipped separately on cargo planes.

Oh, and btw....what is with Egypt's reluctance to let most of the British tourists fly home? That I do NOT understand.

Lastly, imo ISIS was behind this attack and as has been widely reported, the U.S. has helped ISIS. If the American gov't had anything to do with this disaster, then it was an act of war and Putin will respond accordingly.

originally posted by: ashpack
It looks like the UK acted on the US intelligence but not much coming out about the intelligence apart from "additional activity in the saini region that caught our attention" before and after the crash all related to "internal messages seperate to the public claims of responsibility already made"

The UK have spies everywhere in the middle-east and GCHQ's capabilities are decades ahead of the United states.

So you think it was a bomb now? I still lean your way because you are more often correct than incorrect and I think a lot of us read all the other news as 'noise'.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I think the thing with the British being delayed again was more of an Airport traffic issue. If they had a busy schedule at Sharm already and Britain suddenly wants to send 20 planes I guess that could cause a few issues.

Initially Britain didn't share the intelligence with Russia but it looks like they did today and Russia promptly stopped flights. I watched quite a few Russian aircraft land and take off this morning I'm assuming these where bringing passengers in and out so they obviously didn't seem too worried this morning.

I guess with evidence that an explosion took place on board combined with whatever intelligence they have makes them think a bomb went off.

They are still stopping short of saying it but I guess they need to find some bomb residue first.

If it does turn out to be a bomb I wouldn't like to be ISIS or anyone that supports them.

The bbc are reporting that a french source has said that nothing was wrong on the cockpit voice recorder until the end when theres an explosion, there saying the explosion isn't a engine explosion.

On a related note, a British jet was under fire a couple of months ago in the same area as the Russian jet:

A British plane carrying 189 passengers came 'within 1,000ft' of a rocket as it approached Sharm El Sheikh, it emerged last night.

The Thomson flight from London Stansted only took evasive action after the pilot spotted the missile speeding through the air.

The jet landed safely, and holidaymakers were not told they had been seconds from disaster.

The revelation comes amid claims British jihadists had spoken about an Islamic State 'mole' at Sharm el-Sheikh airport minutes after a Metrojet plane crashed in Sinai, killing all 224 on board.

According to the Sun, British extremists were discussing details of the plot in online 'chatter' picked up by US intelligence officers.

Sources told the newspaper there was suggestion there might still be an Islamic State agent active in Sharm el-Sheikh airport.

Meanwhile, US news outlet NBC said American officials had heard leaders from the terror group boasting about the downing of a Russian passenger jet over Egypt.

Citing unnamed officials, the report said ISIS chiefs in Raqqa, Syria, were heard speaking to an affiliated group in the Sinai Peninsula about taking down the plane and how it was done.

An intercepted message from the group also warned of 'something big in the area' before the crash.

The Department for Transport confirmed the Thomson near-miss incident took place on August 23 – just two months before the Metrojet plane crash.

Source

So, if American officials heard boasts about the plane having been taken down, and how this was accomplished, why didn' they come out with the details? Didn't Obama claim he wasn't certain as to the cause?

I can't get over how many revelations about this tragedy are coming out....rapidly. Makes me wonder how much longer it will be until Putin retaliates against ALL those responsible.

a reply to: mzinga

No, I still think it's mechanical. But regardless of what the investigation reveals, with governments saying bomb, anything else will be called a cover up.

The intelligence community and associated governments had tried to let those involved take this thing on. The Russians from all actions so far seemed to want to claim it anything but what those in the know were trying to say. I look at it like leading a horse to water.

So called pundit experts on the conspiracy boards need not give up their day jobs.

Putin has to own this thing plain and simple and hit those responsible with an extreme heavy hand. We missed our chance to be done with these people the day after 9/11 and this is what you get. Now it's his turn.

Hell even if it was mechanical (not looking likely now) never let a chance like this get away. The world is a cut throat brutal chess match and when you get the opportunity to dispose of your enemies with your easiest means at your disposal you do as such.


Ask yourselves what would Dick Cheney do and why in the hell did Putin not run with this?

originally posted by: usafage
....................Putin has to own this thing plain and simple and hit those responsible with an extreme heavy hand. We missed our chance to be done with these people the day after 9/11 and this is what you get. Now it's his turn.

Hell even if it was mechanical (not looking likely now) never let a chance like this get away. The world is a cut throat brutal chess match and when you get the opportunity to dispose of your enemies with your easiest means at your disposal you do as such.

Ask yourselves what would Dick Cheney do and why in the hell did Putin not run with this?

Judging by recent events, I would say that Putin is about to "own" this. He has no choice, given that:

1. If he refuses to act, and with force, Putin will appear to be extremely weak. The West would love that (esp. the U.S. gov't). In addition, the Russian people will turn on him if nothing is done at all.

2. Putin owes it to the loved ones of the victims to take concrete action.

You're absolutely correct about this world being a "brutal chess match," and Putin knows what he is doing. I have asked why is he taking so long to address this issue, and I'm sure many others have. It could be that Putin is trying to keep his adversaries guessing as to what his next move would be. There's nothing more powerful in a "brutal chess match" than the element of surprise.

Since the US gov't is known to "help" the rebels in Syria (aka ISIS) and since it is likely that ISIS committed this act, then one must ask if ISIS was given the means by which to bring this jet down. If so, who?

I keep thinking back to McCain's statement about providing these "rebels" the means by which they can shoot down Russian fighter jets. I understand he wasn't talking about passenger planes, but what if this assistance was already provided and ISIS turned around and decided to use it against civilian planes instead? Perhaps with the full knowledge of the U.S.?

If so, then imo our gov't is guilty of an act of war and Putin will act accordingly.

Check mate.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: mzinga

No, I still think it's mechanical. But regardless of what the investigation reveals, with governments saying bomb, anything else will be called a cover up.

I did agree with you but I have changed my mind. I don't think it would be in anyone's interest to cover up a mechanical fault.

European investigators who analyzed the two flight recorders from the Metrojet plane that went down last weekend in Egypt are categorically saying the crash is not an accident,
The investigators said the cockpit voice recorder of Metrojet Flight 9268 shows an explosion and the flight data recorder confirms the explosion is not accidental.

If and when they confirm it was a bomb I think the result will be a big increase in the fight against ISIS from the Russians. It may also help the UK government get support for Air strikes in Syria.

a reply to: dianajune
World wars have started for less.