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How Do We Save the Worker? Jesse Ventura Takes on America's Wage Crisis

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posted on Oct, 30 2015 @ 06:49 PM
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It's not necessarily all about education. Last week they reported millions of people with bachelor degrees can't find work. I was visiting in Colorado recently. They couldn't keep teachers because the housing was so expensive. It was like a revolving door there. Where I used to work they even outsourced the mechanical and design engineering jobs to India. Then after the powers to be decimated the workforce and community, they are now running radio commercials for state funding because the businesses can't find skilled workers.

It seems like everything is an attack on the workforce nowadays. I think they've evolved the workforce into the revolving door workforce to drive down wages even further. There are companies that have random drug testing throughout employment. If you fail for any reason. Your fired. There are over 400 over-the-counter products that will cause you to fail a drug test. Educated yourself and beware.

I talked to a friend that said they are short staffed because they can't find anyone that can pass the drug test?

It seems like the end formuala is to drive down wages at all cost.




posted on Oct, 30 2015 @ 06:58 PM
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its funny.

from 1950-1980 a company offered a retirement fund and a gold watch after 20 yrs. health care was a given. yearly raises and christmas bonus was the norm. also, the ceo only made 25x the average workers wage.

now, no company retirement fund or watch. healthcare is overpriced. a 2-5% raise, if you're lucky, and no bonus. the ceo makes 300x what the average worker makes.

what changed? say it with me class "REAGAN-OMICS"!

when the rich paid godawful amounts in tax, circa 65%, they didnt see the point in paying themselves outrageous amounts of money, so that money was spread out to the workers of the company. now days, if the top 400 ceo's took just a 0.8% paycut, they could employ 250,000 people at 50k a year. by reagan dropping taxes (which caused the debt to increase 186% btw) it gave free reign to the top to line their pockets and start thinking short term. back in the day a corp thought about long term gain.

but its not all reagans fault. clinton had a hand with the free trade agreements. by shipping our manufacturing base overseas, profits exploded, incentivizing more off shoring in order for the ceo to get a bigger bonus. lack of quality and lead in the paint didnt matter, so long as the bonus came rolling in.

an economy is run based on demand. if people have money, they demand better products and pay for that improvement. (why do you think we have vintage clothing shops? because the quality then was better than now. can you see our clothes lasting 20 yrs?) however, it cuts into the profit margin of the company. when people dont have money, they demand cheap, and cheap is great for the profit margin. higher profits, bigger bonus for the ceo.

another set back for the american worker was the decline in unions. (i can smell the smoke, so before the flames begin, i think unions should be reformed cause they are just as bad as anything else). a union is the only thing you have to protect you from the company. remember, a company doesnt care about you. it only cares about profit. everything thing you have, from a 40 hr work week, safe work environments, to overtime pay, is because of unions. as unions declined, so did wages.

why do we need a minimum wage? because a company will pay you the least amount they can. think about servers. they get paid below min wage. why? because they get tips. so what? how is that any business of the employer if i give my server a bit extra for good service? they dont work for me, its not my job to tip them and make up their wage. its their bosses responsibility to pay them, not mine. (i do tip, btw) yet the boss, because they can, pay less then min wage.

think about the h-1b visa. disney just fired over 100 I.T. workers. then they imported their replacements under h-1b, saying they couldnt find qualified americans to fill the job (guess they forgot about the ones they fired, after making them train their replacements, btw) oh, did i mention the americans were making 100k a year, but their replacements only make 60k? this happens in I.T. all the time, but soon it will happen in other fields.

so how do we fix it? go back to the way things were before reagan. it worked then, so why not now (with a few tweaks, of course.)

oh, why do actors and athletes get paid so much? because they have unions! they now how much they make for the company, and they demand their share of that money. if they dont get it, everyone walks. remember the writers strike just a few years ago? or how the three stars of "big bang" formed their own mini-union and demanded better pay or they wouldnt be back? one person at the company can be crushed or fired. most of the people at the company cant.



posted on Oct, 30 2015 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: stormson

Do you really think that would work?

Though I see your point about higher taxes.

Why give yourself a million dollars to lose 650,000 in taxes right off the rip.



posted on Oct, 30 2015 @ 08:30 PM
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originally posted by: TamtammyMacx
It's not necessarily all about education. Last week they reported millions of people with bachelor degrees can't find work. I was visiting in Colorado recently. They couldn't keep teachers because the housing was so expensive. It was like a revolving door there. Where I used to work they even outsourced the mechanical and design engineering jobs to India. Then after the powers to be decimated the workforce and community, they are now running radio commercials for state funding because the businesses can't find skilled workers.

It seems like everything is an attack on the workforce nowadays. I think they've evolved the workforce into the revolving door workforce to drive down wages even further. There are companies that have random drug testing throughout employment. If you fail for any reason. Your fired. There are over 400 over-the-counter products that will cause you to fail a drug test. Educated yourself and beware.

I talked to a friend that said they are short staffed because they can't find anyone that can pass the drug test?

It seems like the end formuala is to drive down wages at all cost.


Hardly anyone paid those tax rates. Also, CEOs 50 years ago were not running nearly as complex organizations as they are today. Companies have significantly higher revenues, exponentially more employees, operating globally, etc. It is no different from how athletes and entertainers didn't make nearly as much as they do today either. The movies make more money, their stardom is much more global and as such, their salaries exploded.



posted on Oct, 30 2015 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I don't know how much experience you have with minimum wage workers, but I have been hiring them and working with them for over 20 years.

I don't know if it's environmental and social factors or if some people are born lacking the mental aptitude for college, but based on my 20 years working with at least 5,000 different minimum wage workers I would say anywhere from 25% to 50% of them do not have the mental aptitude for college or the jobs you are suggesting.

My opinion is simple. All businesses from mom and pop to global corporations exist to benefit employees first, customers second and the owners third.

Without different employees doing different tasks most businesses would simply be non existent. Some tasks require an education or technical skill, but many jobs don't. Most companies couldn't function without both the low end wage earners and technical or skilled employees.

If a business can't afford to pay a living wage to it's unskilled employees then the business has a flawed business model and is not a benefit to the people it employs.

If a business can't afford to pay a living wage to the unskilled employees the business is a drain on society and needs to be restructured until it can be a benefit to it's employees, customers and owners.

We can't have unskilled people working 40 hours a week and still be considered to be below poverty. Any society that operates in these current conditions is highly dysfunctional.

We need a minimum wage that represents the actual cost of living and the minimum wage needs to fluctuate with the cost of living.

Most businesses would be able to function paying a higher minimum wage while passing on the additional costs to the consumers. Understandably in the short term these businesses will raise the cost of living by raising prices, but I believe after a few years this would level off and be substantial.

In low skill jobs I wouldn't be opposed to a training wage for 6-12 months, but eventually the employee deserves a living wage.

Add - I also support a maximum wage / wealth cap.

IMO there is a level of income and wealth that one can achieve where making money is no longer about a better life. Many who have reached that level of income turn from making their life better to trying to dictate everyone else's.

The greed never ends, but the focus changes from quality of life to a desire for power. Our world is corrupted by those with insane wealth who have used their wealth to buy politicians and the laws which are passed not because they need money but because they want power.

A wealth cap would end this insatiable desire for power and ensure the power remained in the hands of the majority while the constitution ensures the civil liberties of the minority.
edit on 30-10-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2015 @ 08:48 PM
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The Robotic Age has no need for human toil. All workers are on borrowed time.



posted on Oct, 30 2015 @ 08:56 PM
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There needs to be a serious push by the people to end free trade. American produced goods are worth more than Chinese made goods. Bring manufacturing back home.



posted on Oct, 30 2015 @ 10:24 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Education? You really think that is the do all be all to end poverty? Seriously, we have people that graduated with a degree that was in a field that seemed to be in demand when they first started. By the time they graduated the jobs had been outsourced. You have a bunch of people out there with degrees right now that for all the good the degree is doing them,they could use it as toilet paper.

I don't believe in a max wage,but I really think that if you are going to call something a cost of living increase,then it should cover how much everything has now gone up.And it most certainly doesn't. I sat down and figured out by using a loaf of bread,how much buying power the people have actually lost since 1972. Their income for min. wage would have to go up to almost $15 an hour to give them the same buying power as back then.

Back in the '60s my father was a RR worker and made what was considered to be a good wage back then.He brought home $65 a week and fed his wife and 2 kids on it,plus paid for their house and bills. Something needs to be done about the wages in this country.Before NAFTA was signed people were out in the streets protesting it,because they knew that it would keep wages down,make Americans have to compete with foreign workers,(try competing with someone that only makes 27 cents per hour)ruin the middle class,and lose jobs for Americans. The rest of the country didn't care.Just like those that make over $100000 a year right now don't care about those that don't. I don't think you can ever get rid of poverty myself,but you can decrease the number of people below poverty levels if they have a chance to work and get a half way decent wage.



posted on Oct, 31 2015 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I disagree with you. More people are going to college than ever before. There is no education problem in that respect. But these days you need a master's degree to get above the 40,000 mark in most cases. And that costs money.

Also, our economy is set up so that people who would normally be working in factories or such are working at McDonalds and Wal Mart because those are the jobs that are available. There is no reason we can't ensure that all workers in our country can earn a living wage at 40 hours a week.
edit on 31amSat, 31 Oct 2015 00:25:03 -0500kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2015 @ 07:43 AM
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originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
a reply to: JesseVentura

Jesse Ventura: "If you work a 40 hour work week, you should not be subsidized by the government, no matter what you do."

So, an unskilled person, with limited education, should make the same (or nearly the same) as an educated pencil pusher (to use your words)?


Jesse Ventura: "Raise the minimum wage, and lower the maximum wage, and you might find utopia."

---groan---

So let's remove incentives for working hard at an education to achieve a higher level of income, and reward the uninspired with a "living wage" at the expense of private industry.

While I tend to lean liberal in many social policies, such a statement is beyond liberal and well into the intensely socialist.


We don't have a wage problem in this country.

I'll say it again: we don't have a wage problem in this country.

We have an education problem.


If people are getting married, having families, and can't find the job that earns enough to support their family, it's not society's responsibility to pay them more. It's society's responsibility to ensure they're educated for the job that can support their family.

This problem won't be solved by raising the minimum wage. The result would be a tickle-up, requiring all wages to go up, and the new normal will be no different than it is now.

The only solution is education. But politicians wanting to raise the minimum wage plays better, and gets cheers from doe-eyed young liberals looking for quick fixes.


Yea, cuz if everyone gets an education, then all of the jobs that don't get you enough money to support yourself or a family will no longer exist, and everyone can just have the higher paying jobs. Oh wait, that's completely nonsensical and impossible. Oh well, why think this through...stupid commies! Wanting to be able to support themselves while working full time! Don't pay people a living wage! Make them get subsidies from the government instead! Even though that's bad too...cuz logic...
edit on 31-10-2015 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2015 @ 08:39 AM
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The average annual household income has been dropping for well over 3 decades now, and it's getting worse by the day.

What that means is wages have not been keeping on par with the rate of inflation/cost of living. It literally means our standard of living is plummeting as each year goes by. It doesn't matter if you're making minimum wage or $70,000/year... your standard of living is dropping, which means more and more people are depending on credit to purchase the basic necessities in life (home, car, post-secondary education, etc).

Also keep in mind, the TPP agreement is just around the corner making "free trade" an even more serious problem.



At this rate folks, we're all going to become Banana Republics in short order.

Goodbye middle class, hello plutocracy.




posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 03:13 AM
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How DARE the less fortunate make a living wage! They shall slave away for pennies and like it!

I can't believe the ignorance of some people. You are so self entitled that you moan and groan when people complain about not being able to make it with their job. They're just wanting to steal money right out of your pockets, aren't they? "YOUR" money.

Stuff your faces with plenty, while there are hard working people out there who don't make enough money to even limp by. It's not an education problem. The world has changed since many of you started from the bottom... Hard work and dedication USED to get you somewhere back in the day. The dollar is getting weaker and weaker. Greedy scumbags, see us peasants as trying to take money out of their pockets when we complain about a liveable wage.



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 06:11 AM
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Reconstitute industry by using infrastructure modernization /reconstruction as the impetus.
Dump the unneccessary police state federal agencies and replace it with an expanded FBI that promotes from local law enforcement.,in order to unify the states LEOs and federal law enforcement.
edit on 1-11-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Education doesn't solve the problem, if you're a business you need someone to run the cash registers and stock the shelves. We can all be so educated that everyone has a PhD and that basic fact isn't going to change. On top of that, the most efficient means we have of production today, more efficient by several orders of magnitude over the next best option is the assembly line. An assembly line inherently requires specialization, rather than know how to build and repair an entire car, a person only knows how to attach tires. Another side effect of this is that it means people need LESS education as time goes on.

The solution isn't to further educate the populace, not only does our most used production system discourage it, but there are only so many jobs to go around for educated individuals. Most of our needs are still filled by rather basic positions that require a minimum of training.



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
No one is suggesting a PhD.

Right now, news about corporate recruiters having a hard time finding qualified (educated) candidates for entry-level corporate jobs in tech startups, media, advertising, etc. is not difficult to find. It's a growing problem across corporate America -- a lack of candidates.


We have plenty of those jobs. Do you know the highest unemployment or underemployment group in the US? It's people who hold STEM degrees. The reason corporate recruiters are having trouble filling their positions is that they're not paying very much. Tech companies offer US workers the same rates they used to offer the H1B people, and now they're offering the H1B's even less. If I were so inclined I could give you a long list of tech companies who won't offer relocation assistance and offer a starting wage in large cities of $10/hour for tech positions. That's for entry level positions that are wanting 3 years of experience and a bachelors degree, usually with a high gpa attached as well. These companies aren't finding the candidates because the people holding those degrees simply aren't going to work for $10/hour with no benefits when they can get the same wage from someone like Walmart who has no expectations of them.



I'm going to be unfashionably harsh here: if you're unable to attain employment beyond minimum wage jobs, then you should not be starting a family.


So the poor have no right to procreation?


originally posted by: Drinking
Raising the minimum wage doesn't lift those at the MW up, it just forces those above it down.

The idea isn't to lift Terry out of poverty so Mike can be in poverty.

The idea is to lift Terry and Mike out of poverty.

Only way for that to happen is more pay or more spending power from their pay.

If I make $15 an hour, and you make $7.50 and they raise the MW to $15 im now at poverty level where I was at double it before.


You're being contradictory. The pie is always a fixed size, ideas like a maximum wage or a minimum wage are just changing the size of the slice everyone gets. Making the argument that the poor need a higher wage (or rather, more purchasing power) is making the exact same argument that those in the middle should be getting less. The two concepts go hand in hand.


originally posted by: NewzNose
I think we have an entitlement crisis in this country, not a wage crises. People expect to start at a higher pay wage and there is virtually no "starting" position. They don't want to work for the wage, they just expect it paid from day one.

We've become a lazy, entitled, excuse making society.


If someone has 2 college degrees and 5 years experience in their field, have they "worked for the wage" or should they still be getting paid minimum?
edit on 1-11-2015 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 09:29 PM
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a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I have to disagree with you SkepticO. We have a greed problem. Milton Friedman eloquently asked - "name a society that doesn't run on greed." And further "of course, none of us are greedy, it's only the other fellow who is greedy."

This is very true. Greed is a part of human nature, at least westernized human nature. While I believe it exists in all humans there are societies, like ours, that condone and worship it. It was much less prevalent (not non-existent) in tribal societies.

Friedman continues suggesting that innovations weren't ordered by government/bureaucracy. Perhaps not now, but ages ago innovation was ordered by kings and queens. The Roman Empire, the great bureaucratic machine that it was, had many innovations that weren't brought about through pure capitalistic intentions.

Friedman is wrong. Both greed and innovation exist in human beings mutually exclusive. And that the only way we have gotten where we are is by the greed of human beings. Innovation, yes. Greed, no. Leonardo Da Vinci pursued innovation on his own accord and also at the accord of the political powers of his time. And there are many historical examples of this.

The problems that we face are simple:
1. We continue to repeat history because we fail to learn from the past
2. The nature of the world (past and present) is full on greed pursued by a small portion of the world at the expense of the rest
3. The greed we have leads to war and destruction

To suggest that this shouldn't be reined in on some level is lunacy to me. You may as well suggest that all the wars, drone strikes, foreign occupation, and everything else is just fine too. Because it's that same greed that is destroying countries and lives over resources for the few at the expense of the many.
edit on 1-11-2015 by WCmutant because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 09:40 PM
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How and when do we start believing workers should be considered valuable contributors to our society and economy (such that it is) and compensate them accordingly?



posted on Nov, 1 2015 @ 10:08 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight
How and when do we start believing workers should be considered valuable contributors to our society and economy (such that it is) and compensate them accordingly?


I question if it is possible. Seriously. Like I said before, there is a finite supply to the pie, and by increasing one persons share we decrease anothers. The person who risks the business, comes up with the business plan, spends the money, and maybe innovates a new mode, deserves a larger share of the pie in order to incentivize more people to do the same. The mid level people at the business deserve a slice of the pie because they're maintaining it. The low level people should get a share too, because without them all of the labor wouldn't get done. Lets divide this into 3 levels.
Owner - 33%
Mid Level - 33%
Entry - 33%

Even if we divide the split evenly between those groups, the numbers of people in each group aren't equal. There is 1 owner, 5 managers, and 25 entry level. So per capita that's
Owner .33
Mid Level .066
Entry .0132

Converted into minmum wages (at $8/hour) that's $606.06 per group or $1818.18 per hour. Wages are typically 30% of revenues so this business would need revenues of $6060.6 per hour in order to maintain that wage structure. That's $17,648,467.2 in revenues before any profit. Not many businesses with just 31 people can hit 18 million per year in revenue, and that's what it takes to sustain minimum wage here. We could adjust that by lowering the salary of the rest, such as the owner who gets 25x more than the lowest worker, or the midlevel who gets 5x more, but does that really help anyone?

Instead, I think a subsistence economy is inevitable. As a society we need to agree to a small living stipend, food, and shelter for everyone and then make working for more optional. If people want more they will work, if they don't they won't. Norway does something like this already. No individual business can handle the tax burden welfare programs are requiring, and it's not their fault. It's due to three decades of mismanaged CPI numbers.

It's late and I'm tired so I'm probably not explaining this very well. Perhaps I'll try again tomorrow. The bottom line though is that our current system just doesn't work.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 12:21 PM
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How do you save the worker? You don't. Why on earth would anyone think that all humans will always have to work until the end of time?

Does no one take into account that capitalism NEEDS oceans of poor and islands of rich to make it function?

Raising the minimum wage is beyond mindlessly stupid. If the minimum wage goes up, would that not just pave the way for all of the things you need/ want to just skyrocket in price...seeing as, ya know...it costs more to provide the goods or services?

Anyways, even if you did raise the minimum wage, technology would just be pushed even further into the world of removing the worker. Automation will eventually take over most if not all industry. I highly suggest watching the YouTube video documenting the assembly line of BMW's i3 and i8. Quite literally the entire car is built by robots. Only about a dozen or so people work the line and really all they do is interact with the robots.

Personally I'm all for the removal of the worker from menial or dangerous labour, if not most jobs. The issue here is not the wage or the work needed to be done. It is the economy as a whole, which is fundamentally broken, and cannot be fixed.

Monetary economics has hit a wall and will do nothing to further the development of humanity. If anything, monetary economics will be the crux of the downfall of humanity.

"Mo money, mo problems" - wise words from a dead man.



posted on Nov, 2 2015 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: Sparkymedic
Raising the minimum wage is beyond mindlessly stupid. If the minimum wage goes up, would that not just pave the way for all of the things you need/ want to just skyrocket in price...seeing as, ya know...it costs more to provide the goods or services?


It's not a proportional increase because the cost of labor doesn't make up 100% of the cost of goods. There are products like electricity, rent, and raw materials which don't carry a labor cost. In the typical business 33% of your revenue goes to wages, that means only 1/3 of the final cost of your product is paid out in wages. If an increase in the minimum wage increases your wages by 50% the final cost of your product is only 116.5% of what it was prior to the wage increase. So your wages have gone up 50% but the cost of goods only rose 16.5% to compensate.




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