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Survey: 61 percent of British Muslims want Sharia courts

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posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 07:32 PM
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Look at the Crime statistics for the USA or the UK. Its also been the basis for discussion on lots of TV shows... Thought it was pretty much comman knowledge by now...




posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by HeirToBokassa

Originally posted by P Amaru
I could post 100 websites claiming things which are totally untrue, means nothing.


Oh no, you're not squeezing out of this one just yet. Why does the Quran say that Muhamad had sex with a 9-year old child? Why do Islamic websites confirm this? Can you find me one website, authored by Muslims or non-Muslims, that disputes that Muhamad had sex with a 9-year old child?

Do you deny that Muhamad had a wife named Aisha? If not, do you deny that he had sex with her when she was 9?

Waiting for your answer...


Muhammed got married to a girl at 9 (which was the culture at the time) he then had sex with her at 13 i from what ive been told. I dont think laws around that time would have had an age limit on sex please correct me if im wrong.So it would have been based on looks and some 13 yr old girls would be physically ready for sex.

On the courts issue i disagree i think if people want changes they should try and change the legal system itself not create a new one.


Should people be arrested for saying islam is bad , i think no.
People should be able to say that they think it is bad just in the same way people should be able to say Islam is the one great truth.

Even though racism is a terrible thing people should be allowed to think what they want, I would prefer a friend who cracks racist jokes than one who secretly discriminates againts a group of people.



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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In my opinion, and according to science, there is only one race. The human race is all of us. There are environmental adaptations, cultural evolutions that have made us diverse in our beliefs and ideals, laws and religions, skin color and even stature. That doesn't make us different animals, we're still all human. Look how well we've done competing against nature for millions of years, without global wars and religious madmen. We were evolving so well for a while, and then religion happened, globalism and trade happened, greed consumed us. The point is, black is a color, human is a race. The farther away we get from the idea of species loyalty, the closer we come to oblivion.

Dogma is the doom of humanity, if left unchecked. Organized religion is the worst historical plague, and there is no vaccine except knowledge. Innoculate yourself and your loved ones. Name me one plague that has killed so many as Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism.. Centuries of blood, and nobody has thought to stop? Why? Why are we cutting off our own legs, as a species?

I wasn't going to touch that comment about black people causing more crime, not with a ten foot pole, but here goes. It all depends on where you live. If you spend time down south, you'll find that most criminals are white, unemployed or unemployed, uneducated and grubby. If you spend time in the north, most criminals are black, unemployed or underemployed, uneducated and grubby. If you spend time in the west, most criminals are hispanic, unemployed or underemployed, uneducated and grubby. What's the common element here? Hmm.. Sorry for the repetition, but this is a serious trend that needs adressing. I think it's the fact that all these groups are poor, and are more comfortable, more prosperous living by the laws of nature, instead of the laws of man. Rich people commit crimes too, lots of them, but overall those crimes are less violent, less desperate. The criminal mind can infect ANY person, it is usually the result of desperation or a skewed view of the world. Keep in mind we are all killers, raised by momma nature to be brutal, deceptive, cunning. But don't forget either that we can be tender and gentle, loving and productive. It largely depends on what behavior is most condusive to life in a given environment.

There are many people in the world, and correspondingly they appear on ATS in more than adequate numbers, who lack the basic inteligence to question assumptions and organize abstract thoughts. How are they to be helped? Society can be the cure, instead of the current state of affairs, in which society is the plague. If you indocrinate a culture of respect and learning, instead of fear and ambition, you will see the results in only a few generations. The human beings who are successful in a 'cultured' culture, will more likely than not be likable, gregarious, inteligent and attractive. I like where evolution is taking us in that example. Can we please all just make a pledge to think for ourselves, and not to let a collaborative work of fiction from 1700 years ago, or 1800 years ago, or 1100 years ago unduly influence our contemporary beliefs. If your friends and loved ones can't think for themselves, do all you can to help them learn.

As a global society, we can probably never flourish, because nature has crafted us in opposition of each other. There are some who exist quite well in the kingdoms of others, there are others who are ill adapted. Fundamentalist Muslims in London is a bad mixture, in fact all of europe is a little too free wheeling for their tastes. So of course, if they live there, they want to change it to suit their needs. This is expected, but not appreciated, so of course there is going to be conflict. There isn't even a lot of room for compromise, because neither side will ever be completely satisfied which means pressure accumulates over time and can explode without warning.

A doctrine of separation and mutual respect enforced by a governing body made up of thinking, understanding representatives from each nation state, elected in whatever manner the people of that particular nation desire. This group of men and women would serve one function and one function only. They would hear and settle disputes on territorial rights, and trade disputes. War as a recourse will be discouraged, but is probably inevitable, so perhaps punishment could be ejection from the governing body for a period of time. That nation would essentially be cast out, for however long, and would have no say in the direction of the human race. That's a severe punishment when you think about it. Also, isolation would cause inbreeding guaranteeing further damage to the genetics of the offending group.

The other option is a 'Fundamentalist Congress' where we gather up ALL the fundamentalist religious zealots and lock them in a really big gymnasium together until they learn to get along or kill each other off to the last man. I call dibs on working the popcorn machine.


[edit on 3-1-2005 by WyrdeOne]



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 08:04 PM
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And that only proves how sick they were, and their dinasties of perverted people. Thank god we haven't continue that practice.
As for the marriages in the age of 9 to 13 it is more correct to ages from 13 to 17 and it was connected with ability to work and have kids.
I have heard that kids nowadays are growing faster because of the stressful life in this civilization.
We just have to judge that marriages as wrong.
If we miss to do that someone should say Hitler was right, because it was usual practice to kill jewish people in Germany in the 30s and 40s and nothing wrong in that.



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd
Children went from childhood straight into marriage; when they first reached puberty, they went through the puberty rites and were then considered eligible for marriage.


I'm not debate that women were married earlier in the past. I'm curious as to whether you can substantiate that girls as young as 9 engaged in intercourse commonly. That is physically damaging to girls' bodies, to say nothing about their mental health. Did Muhamad not know better?


Pot. Kettle. Black.


Let's see, how many extremist Christian groups are rampaging around the world? I can name one: Lord's Resistance Army. How many Christian communities are engaging in destructive social behaviour like polygamy? Perhaps the Mormons, though perhaps no longer. Any others? How many Christians apologize for these groups rather than condemn them? Not many.

Now replace "Christian" with Muslim and you get a totally different answer. Most disturbingly, the difference in the answer to the last question is mind-boggling. So no, you should know better. There is no comparison.



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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Heir, although you might be correct that the LRA is the one christian group who rampages in the name of Christianity, many hate groups subscribe to christianity as their theological base. Klansmen, Neo-nazis, the Posse Comitatus, the Skinheads, all claim a belief in Jesus Christ and consider their movements to be toward christian ends, as perceived by each group. You might also want to research the Patriot Movement. (Dig deep on that one.)

Have you forgotten the Crusades? Hitler?



posted on Jan, 3 2005 @ 09:22 PM
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We have Syariah Courts here in Singapore. Seems to co-exist pretty well with secular courts. The Syariah Courts deal with Muslim matters and have jurisdicition ONLY over divorce of Muslim marriages (and consequently matters arising like custody of children andproperty settlements) and succession eg. wills, intestacy etc of Muslims.

Bigamy is still bigamy. Therefore, only 1 lawful spouse.
Statutory rape is still statutory rape. (16 is the age of consent)

Works pretty good over here. Majority of the population is not Muslim.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 12:08 AM
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One step closer to an islamic state. Next thing you know they will want all women to where islamic clothes in certain towns.

In france

He mentionned that 52 % of the rapist were north african youths arabs. 20 % were african youths and the remaining 30 % came from various french family

Imgration brought 70% more rape in france.

A 36 years old mentally handicapped woman was rapped for several hours by a band of 15 arab youths. They first raped her in a garbage storage room then moved her to a squatt, called another ten friends and raped her again. On may 12 2001, she was found wandering naked in the middle of the night in Aix en Provence, seeking help. According to Le Figaro, not only had she been raped but her body was covered with cigarette burns.

uring the same period, rap music began to emerge in France. One of the first band to attain national coverage was Ministere Amer, a bond that sang openly racist lyrics. In its album "pourquoi tant de haine" (why so much hatred) the singer clearly points out the ethnic group targeted by the songs: "Already back, i'm announcing my speeches' color... My voice in your speakers abuse with word play, exploits the news, denounces the plagues, so right away, here are my sayings, victims are gallo-romans and anglo-saxons..."

he sang texts that clearly show that the use of gang rapes was a weapon in a racial confrontation, especially against white policemen, in "Brigitte, femme de Flic" (brigitte, a cop's wife)





*Edited for vulgar language*

Amuk




there would be more to say about this, as on the french page for this article, where i go deeper in the rapists motivations, both for blacks and regarding muslims. The problem of islam will be talked about in regard to Australia, Danemark and Norway


[edit on 4-1-2005 by Thinker]

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Thinker]

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Thinker]

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Amuk]



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 12:21 AM
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If these figure are verified, then it seems they triple the rape in France because 100% is 3,3 times 30%, which are rapes without african.
That sounds bad. What is the problem those people have?



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by MankoW
If these figure are verified, then it seems they triple the rape in France because 100% is 3,3 times 30%, which are rapes without african.
That sounds bad. What is the problem those people have?


Islam, rap music, racist ideologys, arab culture, koran.

I was in power i would call in big oil tankers and start deportation proceddings.
I don't care if they didn't commit a crime, their culture is what commits the crime. So go away and don't come back.

Reality is the governments will never do anything. No government wants a bad relaition with the oil suppilers. So their women will price to pay for the oil, being raped by the arabs.

It's amazing how democry/liberism has pussyfied a government. They even control the media to keep the people from overthrowing the government's, but not allowing the stastices out on the media.

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Thinker]

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Thinker]



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 12:26 PM
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People,

Why has this thread become an Arab bashing festival ? I thought this thread was about the majority British Muslims wanting Syariah Courts in England ?

First not all Arabs are Muslims.

Second, surely we are not going to take the position that the establishment of Syariah Courts to deal with marriages, divorce and family matters will result in widespread gang rape ? Somehow, the jump in logic is too huge.

Why not speak to the Mormons, Hindus, Jews etc about what sort of Courts they want ? Jeez, what is going on here ????



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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I'm sick of PC

www.google.ca...

Unfortunately what we're seeing is a cultural war taking place silently. The question we have to ask our selves is do we value western culture/values or do we allow what has happened so many times in the past. By the way, if you do a goggle search you'll find that Iran wasnt an Islamic state in the past. Remember folks Islam invaded Spain before the Crusades started, by like 300 years.

In closing my opinion is the west (Europe/NA/West) must lose its senseless materialism and Islamic countries must to get the hell out of the dark ages and grow up. Its about time Islam went thought a reformation, there does seem to be growing voice in the Islamic world who desire this.

With out truning into Nazis, we have a right to protect our culture and values.

But..If we get too PC over issues like this and barry our heads, when we come back for air we might find that there is a real war our side our door .



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 01:58 PM
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You know marry would have been about 9, 12 at the latest.

And there is a diffrents bettween what consenting adults want to do to each other and forcing a child in to some thing. Is that shuch a hard idear to accept(conserning your pyolyagamy leading to pedaphila).

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Elfwood]



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Thinker

Originally posted by MankoW
If these figure are verified, then it seems they triple the rape in France because 100% is 3,3 times 30%, which are rapes without african.
That sounds bad. What is the problem those people have?


Islam, rap music, racist ideologys, arab culture, koran.

I was in power i would call in big oil tankers and start deportation proceddings.
I don't care if they didn't commit a crime, their culture is what commits the crime. So go away and don't come back.

Reality is the governments will never do anything. No government wants a bad relaition with the oil suppilers. So their women will price to pay for the oil, being raped by the arabs.

It's amazing how democry/liberism has pussyfied a government. They even control the media to keep the people from overthrowing the government's, but not allowing the stastices out on the media.

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Thinker]

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Thinker]


You condemn racism in one of your post (the bit about the rap band) but yours views are some of the racist I have ever heard.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by Elfwood

Originally posted by Thinker

Originally posted by MankoW
If these figure are verified, then it seems they triple the rape in France because 100% is 3,3 times 30%, which are rapes without african.
That sounds bad. What is the problem those people have?


Islam, rap music, racist ideologys, arab culture, koran.

I was in power i would call in big oil tankers and start deportation proceddings.
I don't care if they didn't commit a crime, their culture is what commits the crime. So go away and don't come back.

Reality is the governments will never do anything. No government wants a bad relaition with the oil suppilers. So their women will price to pay for the oil, being raped by the arabs.

It's amazing how democry/liberism has pussyfied a government. They even control the media to keep the people from overthrowing the government's, but not allowing the stastices out on the media.

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Thinker]

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Thinker]


You condemn racism in one of your post (the bit about the rap band) but yours views are some of the racist I have ever heard.


Rap music is thug type of music. Most the people who listen to this, go around causing trouble. This not racism, this Some cultures are just rotten.

Why is that arab muslims in france, australia, denmark are raping like hot cakes, but arab christians are not? It's points to Islam it's self and the that way it views western culture and it's women are sluts that deserve to be threated as such.

We have this types of cultures supported by Bush and many european leaders, real sad cases. European union and bush support a culture that prompts the raping of their women. real sad case of indivuduals who care nothing for their people, but their lame ass relationship with the arab countrys who supply them with oil.




[edit on 4-1-2005 by Thinker]



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 06:02 PM
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Well, that is how it goes, on group of people come as ethnic minority, then when it grows stronger it put more and more pressure on the goverment of the host, until it goes into civil war or holocaust.
Minorities usualy living as 2nd grade citizens, but if it brings more criminal it is a problem which should be fight, but not in separation, but in assimilation into host country way of life.
Culture and religions change, but people stay, it is good point about Iran and islam, because islam even didn't exist like before 600ad, same for the christians before Christ to be precise. Roman empire converted into christians, so todays religions may also go away one day.
It is strange how all of them make somoeone believe, yes that is very strange thing in all religions, how thay exist without scientific explanation of the faith. 21st century should deal with it more serious and tough.
I wouldn't give credit to any religious motives to mingle with law and the state.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 06:17 PM
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This thread was an arab/muslim bashing thread all along... Its cleary apparent HeirToBokassa is a racist and a hatred spreader...

and FYI some cultures (the chinise i believe but im not sure) allow girls to have sex at the age of 13, and in many asian cultures girls are married at around 12 years old.

Now how can you tell me polygamy is damaging to our nation? What right do you have telling others how to live there lives? If your such a good christian, shouldnt you spread peace and not post stupid hatred on boards like this?

As for what i said about blacks (and got a warning for it...) i stand buy it, in the UK a insanly high amount of crime is commited by blakcs considering there numbers... Im not saying blacks are bad or evil tho, i agree it is mostly our countries fault, we bought a lot of them here to work (as slaves) or fight (in ww2) for us, but we didnt do anything to help them after that, I also believe the goverment wants to keep black people oppressed so they have a goof source of cheap labour, and can keep running a stupid amount of army recruitment drives targetting poor black neighborhoods



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by P Amaru
This thread was an arab/muslim bashing thread all along... Its cleary apparent HeirToBokassa is a racist and a hatred spreader...


You still fail to distinguish between a race and a religion. To be against Islam, which is an ideology like Christianity, Scientology, or Hitlerism, is not racist. Maybe if more "moderate" Muslims would condemn the actions of extremist Muslims instead of making excuses for them, there wouldn't be as much of a negative light thrown on Islam. As it stands, people have a right to question ideologies, and ideologies are not sacred at all to those who don't share them. Islam is not sacred to me; I see it as a blight upon the world.


As for what i said about blacks


Some of your comments about blacks in general make sense. The difference, though, is that blacks as an entire group have nothing in common with each other except genes, whereas Muslims share not a race but a flawed, obsolete belief system. This religion encourages acts of violence. Before it is pointed out that Christianity, Aum Shinrikyo, or some cult that some guy's roommate started are similar, it has to be observed that the number of acts of violence committed in the name of those other religions/sects/whatever do not begin to compare with those committed in the name of Islam. And beyond that the culture of Islam is complacent, only making excuses for the extremists while furthering their cause. To attack that mentality and that culture is not bigoted, whereas to attack an entire race is.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by P Amaru
What right do you have telling others how to live there lives?


Society does this all the time. The legitimacy comes from the nature of freedom - one person's freedom is an injury to another. Tradeoffs and compromises are always made. Western societies have drawn their lines. The question you should be asking is: what right do people have to immigrate to countries with no intention of sharing in the culture or heritage of the said countries, but only of tearing everything down and putting up in its place their own flawed systems which were in fact responsible for reducing their own homelands to ****holes?



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 08:10 PM
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I don't think anyone wants to become criminal if has the choice. If we exclude mentaly deranged persons, crime is growing in comunities which has not high economy standard and ability to work and has a job.
Someone who has a job, family and decent living is hardly becoming criminal.
Criminal we have in ethnicaly pure countries, in fact on some *primitive* cultures we can't find any crime, especially in Africa.
Crime is something which evolves in money-trade societies. Just having those amounts of money piling up in places. Try to stay close to topic.

*primitive like they haven't accept western rules.

My opinion on the topic is that we shouldn't have to experiment like in some previous posts mentioned. Britain has its law system evolved through years, and it doesn't need to let some "ancient systems" to develop here.



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