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Are we incapable of seeing things as they really are?

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posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 01:11 PM
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We are incapable of seeing things as they really are because there is a belief/misconception that we are 'someone' seeing 'things'.
What is happening is what there is.
So firstly there isn't anyone to see things - and secondly, there are no things.
There is only this that is.

But the words (thoughts) tell stories about 'me' and the 'world' and out of nowhere there may seem to be a world that I have to negotiate and a life I have to live. But really there is no you that has to do life - life is this that is happening and it is not made of two things.


edit on 28-10-2015 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 01:17 PM
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I thought Roger Bacon "disproved" this. Your earlier argument was that reality was reflected accurately, but perhaps not precisely, in our faculties.

Seems you've changed your tune.
edit on 28-10-2015 by Talorc because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Crisis is the resistance to change. Change is the nature of Our existence. Thought, embodied in the "Me" is static because it can only approximate Life. Change, which is movement, is dynamic and is a threat to the dominance of thought. Change contradicts thought and its center, the "Me".

We are static, repetitive habits- the endless repetition of the thought, "I am".

Change is dynamic. We are static. We cannot change, We can only resist change. We resist out of fear.
Fear is what drives this center and what it fears is its own cessation. But, the fact is there is nothing to fear, because there is nothing to cease. The crisis is over because there is nothing left to resist. Change is the movement of energy w/out hinderance. It is the echo of Life itself.

Each thought occurs and then decays. Each structure that expresses out of thought- Our body, Our family, Our work, Our society- also changes as it manifests. We cannot stop this change. Is there anything that We can find which doesn't change? Only thought believes otherwise. Thought is incapable of perceiving the evanescence of reality, because thought is reality and cannot observe its own nature.
Our identification with this mental "blind spot", this idea that Life must be controlled, means We have lost contact with change. We have lost contact with Our true nature.
Change is freedom. It is the end of attachment. It is the end of fear. There is nothing that binds Us, there never has been.
Thought has become self-referrential, putting itself into the equation when calculating its perceptions, thoughts and feelings. Thought projects this sense of solidity into the apparent world, and projects the qualities of its own thought fragments as that world. These qualities, projected, make up the universe in which We move. The world then fulfills the prophesy of Our mind's perspective, because The World IS Our mind.
MIND is not simply the thoughts of which We are aware and with which We identify. Mind is also the collective, the unconscious, the sub-conscious, the other than sub-conscious, the historic, the genetic- the Whole of humankind's conditioning...

namaste



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 01:58 PM
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originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: Astyanax

I agree to some extent. I also agree (as did Descartes) that we cannot trust our senses therefore true reality can never be known - Or we can never be certain we are experiencing true reality.

With regards to perception of reality, I think this is greatly effected by the schemas/pre-conditioned views/ideas of things which effect our perception - our top down (think that's the right one) processing makes us fabricate 'truths' (what we believe are truths not actual truths) and effect our perception of things.

A bit like how most people who are bad at art will draw a cup incorrectly - they first of all perceive the top of the cup is an elipse but once they learn it is almost circular and it's their schema-effected perception that is wrong the drawing changes.

INfo

Schemas

(Not sure if this post makes sense - just woken up).


This is not what Descartes believed. He thought that "true reality" could be ascertained using reason.



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 01:59 PM
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I quite often wonder about our politicians, some of the outright stupid things they say and do, often, with a straight face, Kerry, Murkel, you all have your own versions, are they bred for stupidity? achieve it? have it thrust upon them? What?



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: JimNasium
Nice post.

When the mind and thought have been found to be incoherent then true seeing may occur.



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: Talorc


This is not what Descartes believed. He thought that "true reality" could be ascertained using reason.

What is 'real'? Is it what can be seen, smelled, tasted or touched? Or is it that which cannot be seen, heard or touched?
What is hearing cannot be heard. What is seeing will never be seen.

'True reality' does not have to be figured out or understood - the mind will never see or hear. What is it that is seeing and what is it that is seen?
This is reality - why does it need figuring out with reason?



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what your point is.



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: Talorc

Oh right... I thought he said you couldn't trust the senses as they deceive? But the one certain thing was that we know we can doubt/question therefore we exist in some capacity?

EDIT: I see what you're saying now! Ignore that bit above... I made an incorrect assumption.
edit on 28-10-2015 by and14263 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 28 2015 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: and14263

a reply to: and14263

No worries, you are right about his view of the senses, it just that he thought we could get to the truth using "pure reason".

He was opposed to the British empiricist philosophers, who thought that we could 'only' gain knowledge through the senses.

Ugh..... I really dislike reading things like this article. It always puts me in a sour mood, for some reason.....



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 01:30 AM
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a reply to: and14263

Some relevant qualities of thought to that can be found in the works of John Locke and George Berkeley.
(apparently I was married to Berkeley in a previous life, so I tend to bring him up a lot....LOL)



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 05:32 AM
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originally posted by: JimNasium
a reply to: namelesss

Each a Creator working 'their' Way back from whence they came, The One Infinite Creator...

From a metaphoric/poetic Perspective, perhaps...
From the Perspective of a scientist and philosopher, 'creation' is not possible!
So magnificently not possible!
(But people fail to realize that eliminating God's 'first name'; "Creator", doesn't disturb his last; "God"! *__-)


... being Your very own "Creator" it is up to You. "Change Your thought or You'll get what You've always got..."

"Your" thought?
It is no more 'created' in that wet lump of meat in your skull than the movie screen 'created' the film, or the mirror 'created' the image!
'Thought', like all else that exists (everything exists!) is 'perceived'!
We 'perceive' Reality, it is not 'created'.
We cannot 'change' what we perceive, we can just uniquely perceive the One (unchanging, ALL inclusive) Universal Reality, every unique moment of existence!
All we really 'do' is to pay attention, and perceive 'Self!'!



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 05:33 AM
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a reply to: Talorc


Your earlier argument was that reality was reflected accurately, but perhaps not precisely, in our faculties.

Seems you've changed your tune.

Was this directed at me? No, I haven't changed my tune. But I should say that reality is modelled by our faculties consistently rather than 'accurately'.

If a certain assembly of the elements that comprise reality appears once as a teacup, it will always appear as a teacup. And so it will always appear to everyone -- unless someone happens to be hallucinating, in which case it may appear as a cobra. Even so, reality being somewhat consesually labelled, it will still be a cup.

Until it breaks.


edit on 29/10/15 by Astyanax because: it breaks.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 05:36 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

Also, and most pertinently to my mind, in Hobbes's Leviathan.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 09:45 AM
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By definition, pursuing truth would imply a removal of illusion and all falsehood. Hence the liberation promised to a fulfilled truth-seeker. Whether or not the illusion is forcefully perpetuated by some parasitic entity that thrives off our ignorance, or if it is our own willful ignorance, I do not know, but I'm guessing its a combination of the two.

Never give up, fellow truth-seekers.
edit on 29-10-2015 by cooperton because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: Astyanax




The model may also explain why some folk seem to perceive things others don't, such as ghosts and aliens.


there is an off chance (by human calculations) that this....



The appearance of reality derived from our brains and senses can safely be taken as veridical


...is a collective mental deficiency, and those that see ghosts and aliens...simply don't have it. Thusly we could not for certain say..."if we all agree on something to be real..then it must be real". We do know that there are wavelentghts of light that can not be seen by a "normal" human eye...yet it exists.

or it might be as you stated...



It could be that they are just having problems with their interface-generating internal software.


Nature of reality prevents us from truly "knowing".



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 10:27 AM
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These theories and view points are flawed BECAUSE the majority, including myself, are not capable of seeing anything clearly.

There is too much bias from what people have been taught, how they have been taught to react and respond to the stimuli received and relativity.

For instance. If I were able to somehow literally see through your eyes, the color green that I was conditioned to see as green may not be the same color I see through your eyes as you see it.

We have been conditioned to see things the same way in order that we may be more fully exploited by those who supposedly supply us with what we need to survive.

The governments, corporations or organizations that benefit from our not evolving away from a herd-like mass mentality influence us to de-evolve in order to make a sale and preserve their place in the scheme of everything.

Everything but the planet itself and the animals we consider less than ourselves are actually and factually real.

We are fake, artificial and in error.

I think too much, therefore I don't belong here.

Moo.
edit on 29-10-2015 by MyHappyDogShiner because: bye



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 10:44 AM
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originally posted by: cooperton
By definition, pursuing truth would imply a removal of illusion and all falsehood. Hence the liberation promised to a fulfilled truth-seeker. Whether or not the illusion is forcefully perpetuated by some parasitic entity that thrives off our ignorance, or if it is our own willful ignorance, I do not know, but I'm guessing its a combination of the two.

Never give up, fellow truth-seekers.


Who determines what is illusion? A programmed majority afraid to step away from their staunch, dogmatic ineffective sciences for fear of ridicule from their peers.

When I first meditated to a higher plane without prior formal training, I determined my experiences were figments of my imagination until I researched others' experiences which matched mine exactly; hence collective experiences equal objective reality. The reality we experienced collectively exists as a truth, we just tapped into it.

The reality of our existence through our senses is another reality, another truth, and another form, so we can perceive realities as animated energies with consciousness in many realms, including the subconscious and dream state.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: Astyanax

Could be related to the way i process light as described in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Once i noticed this snow effect i was able to view the world from two perspectives simply by choosing to notice.

Interesting topic.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 08:25 PM
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originally posted by: InTheLight

Who determines what is illusion? A programmed majority afraid to step away from their staunch, dogmatic ineffective sciences for fear of ridicule from their peers.


Yup. Its tragic... I found that a good way to elucidate truth is to investigate what is publicly ridiculed.



When I first meditated to a higher plane without prior formal training, I determined my experiences were figments of my imagination until I researched others' experiences which matched mine exactly; hence collective experiences equal objective reality. The reality we experienced collectively exists as a truth, we just tapped into it.


I'm interested, can you elaborate? If it's too long, direct message me. I have some ethereal experiences I also enjoy sharing.



The reality of our existence through our senses is another reality, another truth, and another form, so we can perceive realities as animated energies with consciousness in many realms, including the subconscious and dream state.


I am under the impression that our present, as in, the present moment, is a constant portrayal of truth, but we are observing/experiencing it in its most basic form. Karma, i.e. Newton's 3rd law, is the constant external presentation of our internal state; the law of attraction, etc.




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