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Hey, ATS: How would you define, "race"?

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posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:05 PM
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Great answers!

Okay, so I do agree then, that race is a construct.

But then why did I think it had something to do with heredity/ancestry? That, surely, isn't a construct. Was I wrong in thinking that those two were equitable?

Thank you all very much so far.

So, regarding the definition of race, then, what do you think I should say? Should I assert that it does not exist? Do you think that I'll get a bad grade if I do that?

And as for human being a race--isn't "human" simply our species??
edit on 27-10-2015 by rukia because: adding another question




posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: rukia

Race: A foolish man-made concept that groups various ethnic groups, clans, and tribes into distinct categories for the sole purpose of increasing or decreasing the privileges of each group.

Many times, these groupings are based on skin pigmentation. Some times, they are based on facial features (Korean and Chinese aren't considered "white", even though they may have lighter skin than other "white" people).

Other times, these groupings are based on lineage, taboos, or fighting ability. Yes, fighting ability. The British designated a category called "Martial Races" when they colonized India. They also passed the "Criminal Tribes Act", which designated some ethnic groups and categories of people as being "criminals" simply for being born into their "race".



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:16 PM
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To help you understand what the assignment is, better, we had to read these definitions (which I already put into my own words) and then come up with our own for race. And that definition (along with the other parts that I outlined in the OP) has to be from 2 to 3 paragraphs in length. It's for a class discussion.

So, the class resources defined these words like this:

NATIONALITY: nation(s) of which an individual is a citizen/member.

CULTURE: shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices which characterize an institution, organization, or group within a society

DOMINANT CULTURE: the established cultural norms in a society. Usually achieves dominance via controlling communication, education, artistic expression, law, political process, and business via majority rule.

*MULTICULTURALISM: acceptance/promotion of multiple ethnic cultures (usually @ organizational level or applied to the demographic population of a specific place). Extends equitable status without promoting any specific ethnic, religious, or cultural community values.

*ETHNICITY: cultural rituals/practices/values associated with the racial group to which one belongs.

* both are epithets that the dominant culture put into place so as to describe race/racial categories and the perceived--and real cultural differences between people

--Though, I don't believe that ethnicity and multiculturalism necessarily have to do with race. If these two things don't directly affect a person, he or she still belongs to a racial category.

For instance, I believe that if race does exist, it is basically all biological in nature. Like, no matter what I think, I'm always going to be half-Mexican. Another example: African Americans have a much higher chance of having sickle-cell anemia. Caucasians do not have this increased risk. Therefore, biological differences do exist.
edit on 27-10-2015 by rukia because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: rukia

It becomes more a matter of self identity than scientific fact but as another mixed race individual I would point out your mixed ancestry is proof that all people are human and a single race, love is not racist but sadly culture often is.

I myself am of broadly British ancestry with Maori from new zealand and Jewish and Yiddish thrown in, being British I have to look as well at the fact we are an island and have had major trade for most of the history of humanity as long as people have lived on these island and that is at least 9000 years since the end of the ice age with people of many different cultures up until the cosmopolitan period of the Roman rule and then with the invasions of the Nordic people's but all sharing that common humanity, there are people in the UK whom can trace there ancestry back to the point the records no longer exist but whom had ancestral DNA that links' them to Mongolia such as some in Cumbria which probably came with Germanic invaders such as Saxons from there hunic ancestry and others can trace there DNA to Africa.

Blood groupings are an interesting one though, some outside africa when they have children with someone from inside africa can suffer a rare disorder called Scickle cell aneomia which means the blood cells are not properly formed and the child can then be weak and short lived but this has a fairly low percentage of occuring at about one in eight or lower.

O blood group (predominantly rhesus positive like my own) is most common in western europe, different blood groups such as A, B etc are more common elsewhere but once again we remain human and differentiating our races can only lead to eventual discrimination or be used to justify already in place discrimination.

Is discrimination always bad, now there is a question that would automatically get a yes from me but it is far more complicated as a question than that.


It sounds as if your tutor is steering you toward a study of discrimination in society and how best to implement Anti Discriminatory Practice by idenitying things others find important in there culture and faith and learning to understand why tollerance is so important for a society, especially a mixed and dynamically cosmopolitan society to be a successful shared reality with others despite there many differences.

What would people die for, what would they kill for and what would they choose if given a choice (indoctrination inside many cultures radically takes away choice but as it is a shared indoctrination in these cultures it is often not percieved as such).

edit on 27-10-2015 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: rukia




And as for human being a race--isn't "human" simply our species??


Homo (man, human being) is our genus, Homo Sapiens is our species, homo sapiens sapiens is our subspecies.

It's only that homo sapiens sapiens are the last humans left. So we can rightfully call ourselves "Human".

edit on 27-10-2015 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

What about those people whose DNA reacted differently to their surroundings--creating these biological differences?

I agree that it is largely a social construct. For instance, even though I'm not related to anyone from Asia, I have been told that I "look Asian"--even though I don't really think that I "look" like anything in particular, being the mutt that I am.
So I can definitely see how there would be problems with the whole categorizing people according to race thing.



It sounds as if your tutor is steering you toward a study of discrimination in society and how best to implement Anti Discriminatory Practice by idenitying things others find important in there culture and faith and learning to understand why tollerance is so important for a society, especially a mixed and dynamically cosmopolitan society to be a successful shared reality with others despite there many differences.


I fully agree with your observation about my instructor's intent. She was educated at a Jesuit liberal arts college--the same one that I used to go to, oddly enough (Loyola Chicago). Also, the first book that we are reading for the class is The Round House by Louise Erdrich--which also makes sense according to your analysis. Thank you.

Boy, I sure am glad I started doing this the day before the assignment opens. This is a lot to think about--please keep the opinions coming! And once I finish the assignment, I will post it here, too, so you can see what I ended up choosing to do



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: rukia

To understand what racialism is, you must first understand what tribalism is. Once you have the concepts behind tribalism and what drives people to distrust the 'other', racialism begins to show its false bias.



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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a reply to: rukia

Race is the human equivalence of breed, as in dog or cat breeds. Biologically, races are [caused by] variations in phenotypes/phenetics.

The difference in genetics and phenetics is that genetics transcribe physical features, and phenetics transcribe those features characteristics. For example, your genes define whether or not you have hair, and where your hair is located on your body, but phenetics would define what type of hair you have. (Think long hair/short hair cats, the color of their coat, etc. - that's phenetics.)

Culture, ethics, and nationality contribute to phenetics development through "natural selection". That is, byway of the guidance and adherence to cultural, ethical, and national beliefs on phenotypic attributes, phenetic variances are sexually, or otherwise, selected for propagation and/or hindrance. An example of this is that, in eighteenth-century America, interracial relations were culturally, ethically, and nationally forbade, thereby guiding phenetic variation.

Hope that helps.

edit on 10/27/2015 by Bleeeeep because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: rukia




But then why did I think it had something to do with heredity/ancestry? That, surely, isn't a construct.


Of course it is, one for the hierarchy to be precise.

But a race is just about conscious/ unconscious skills, setup's and what some people call 'luck'. As long as we race in the same class (pun extended), everything else is just close to the 24h chaos in the Green Hell (and pretty unfair with regards to power).



That's a race! Did anybody actually catch my drift or am I lost in transmission again, heading for the pit-stop? Another funny analogy, I guess.




edit on 27-10-2015 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:42 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Ah! Yes, you are right. Thank you for correcting me.

I know I'm going to sound weird, but I don't believe in the modern definition of evolution. I don't think that archaebacteria turned into fish, which turned into monkeys that turned into humans--or that wolves turned into dogs--or that big cats turned into house cats. I am of the opinion that all of these things have existed on their own. I do believe in natural selection and in the adaptation of a species, but I reject the notion that we are basically like Pokemon.

I like Darwin's theory for the most part--but it was basically ruined by Herbert Spencer (he's the one who thought that fish could turn into monkeys, etc.).



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

I got it--your humor was funny

& great point!

I want to see your video--but, the link is broken.
edit: thank you!

edit on 27-10-2015 by rukia because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:45 PM
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a reply to: masqua

Interesting. I'm going to have to look into that. Thank you!



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: Bleeeeep

Thank you--that did help a lot!



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 07:00 PM
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No such thing as race. Caucasians, Africans, Asians are all different species. But they don't want to teach this because for some reason, it's offensive. I don't understand why the truth offends anyone.

What defines species? Appearance, body structure, behaviour, to name a few.

Appearance - Whites look different than blacks and Asians. Check.

Body structure - Blacks have types of muscles that whites and Asians don't have. Blacks are susceptible to diseases whites and Asians aren't. All 3 species have different bone structure, notably different sized and shaped craniums. Different lip sizes, nose shapes, sexual organ sizes, to name a few. Check.

Behaviour - this is obvious.

Some will say that we are the same species as we can all interbreed, but this is false. Lions, tigers, etc are all different species, and can also breed together.

Lions and tigers also look different. As do the so called "races" of humans.


Lions and tigers are both cats. Just as the 3 main human species congloids, caucasoids, and mongoloids are all apes.

As for the other "races" such as Hispanics, middle eastern, etc, they are all mixed offspring of two of the major species.



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 07:11 PM
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a reply to: rukia

Np. Just think of the variations/expression of the genes themselves, and the way they are cultured based on beliefs about them.

-Sun bathing because being too white is culturally mocked.

-Sunscreen to protect from freckling.

-etc.



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: WP4YT




Caucasians, Africans, Asians are all different species. But they don't want to teach this because for some reason, it's offensive. I don't understand why the truth offends anyone.


How come the children of these human interspecies relationships are not sterile?



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 07:30 PM
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Noun - a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc to see which is the fastest at covering a set corse

Verb - to compete against others to see who is the fastest at covering a set course.

I'm sure this will help immensely.




posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: rukia

You might ask yourself why we subdivide people according to shades of skin and define it as "race" but we tend to pay no attention whatsoever to eye and hair color. Both of the latter two are equally as identifying.

When you arrive at that answer which for me is there is no real reason, then you understand that race is largely an artificial construct.

Culture is a far more viable reason for division as cultural values can and are very different across differing groups of people can they can very much render those groups incompatible.



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 07:56 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: WP4YT




Caucasians, Africans, Asians are all different species. But they don't want to teach this because for some reason, it's offensive. I don't understand why the truth offends anyone.


How come the children of these human interspecies relationships are not sterile?





Tigons are not always sterile
en.m.wikipedia.org...(hybrid)

And mixed "race" humans tend to have their own health problems
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.unc.edu...



posted on Oct, 27 2015 @ 09:20 PM
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Muhammad Ali and his grandson keep in mind Ali is socially a Blackman and self I.d as such in another part of the globe he may be considered white or at least non Black but is he closer to his Black grandfather than he is to all the darker or lighter skinned non family members around him, point is it's all social and that's how people can easily be fooled into thinking one person is from a different "RACE" with just a lil make-up added.



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