Florida’s New Anti-Gay, Anti-Woman Bill May Be the Most Malicious Yet

ya know, I've read through this law several times now.....
I don't see the word "gay", or "homosexual" or "transvestite" or "christian" in it!!

www.myfloridahouse.gov...

a religious belief..... the religion isn't specified, the belief isn't specified... this is how it's defined....

"Exercise of religion" means an act or refusal to act that is substantially motivated by a religious belief, whether
or not the religious exercise is compulsory or central to a larger system of religious belief.

it also mentions moral objection, so well, I don't see where a religion would be a necessary component.... just a closely held belief that something is morally wrong...

and it deals with much more than businesses....AND INDIVIDUALS.... refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding!

Such refusal does not form the basis for any disciplinary or other recriminatory action against the facility or health care provider.

ya know how I interpret this? I think it says that not only is an employee of planned parenthood able to not provide counseling on abortion, birth control, tubal litigations because of their moral convictions but also the employee of the catholic hospital can perform the abortions, prescribe birth control, do the tubal litigation along with the c-section
and there is no basis to fire either!!!

I see it as meaning that any bakery can refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding, but if the employee that they hire feels that it's unkind to refuse them, and makes the cake, well, the business has to suck it it!

I also see it as if any child placement agency feels that adopting a child out to a christian family would cause that child to endure a childhood of indoctrination that would scar that child for life, they can refuse to adopt children out to christian families, but well, if they happen to hire someone who feels that the christian family would be a great family to adopt the child out to, regardless of their religion, well, oh well!!!

so well, the moral issue doesn't have to really be based on any religion whatsoever, and surely not restricted to just a christian belief....
nor is there anything limiting it to the issue of homosexuality, or women's reproductive rights for that matter.
and it kind of gives both companies, organizations, AND INDIVIDUALS (read EMPLOYEES) the same protection in regards to their religious and moral beliefs!

is this just a horribly written piece of legislation or just political pandering, or just a sign of the growing stupidity of the people!
I would be all for this bill if it wasn't for the fact that it would cause so much danged chaos! I mean heck, at least it puts the constitutional protection of freedom of religion back where it belongs---back on the individuals, the people instead of businesses, churches and religious organizations and gov't officials!

originally posted by: dawnstar

is this just a horribly written piece of legislation or just political pandering, or just a sign of the growing stupidity of the people!

D) All of the above.

a reply to: Gryphon66

probably so, but I am wondering if I am interpreting this right? I mean surely, they would want the employees of any hospital to be able to not have to betray their faith and assist on an abortion, so are they granting them the right to do this without any type of reprisal from the hospital, if so, then wouldn't they also be granting the same right to the hospital staff at a catholic hospital to be part of an abortion, because of their deeply held moral belief that it was the right thing to do in that circumstance? I just can't belief that they are so keen on interferring with the rights of employers (both christian and non-christian) like this....

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
WHADAYA say now?
www.redflagnews.com...

Exactly. But, no, this isn't about Christians. Lol. Thanks for the link Cav. Why doesn't the gay community protest Muslims. They are more openly anti-gay.

Because according to gay people and gay supporters
Christians are the real threat.

It is politically incorrect and therefore wrong
to mention the Muslims kill gay people.

Beside they know they can bully Christians
and shove them in a closet and lock the door
with no reprisals and normally with
the Christians apologizing profusely for
hurting their feelings.

They also know that the Muslims won't be
bullied and if they complain about gays
being killed, the Muslims who are killing
gays will be thrilled and kill more gays.

It's all about who they can bully
for revenge and to fuel their
toxic feelings about people of faith.

accidental double post

originally posted by: grandmakdw
It is politically incorrect and therefore wrong
to mention the Muslims kill gay people.

It must be a very sad life when you always assume the very worst of people's motivation.

I posted the reason the Muslims in that story are legally permitted to discriminate. It doesn't make it right, but it's legal and that's why there's no outcry about it, except from those who have an issue with Muslims. Christians are also permitted to discriminate against gays.

Here's the law.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

By the way, Christians' "special rights" ARE the real threat to gay rights and equal treatment. No one else is fighting equal rights here in the US, but the right-wing Christians.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
WHADAYA say now?
www.redflagnews.com...

Exactly. But, no, this isn't about Christians. Lol. Thanks for the link Cav. Why doesn't the gay community protest Muslims. They are more openly anti-gay.

Because according to gay people and gay supporters
Christians are the real threat.

It is politically incorrect and therefore wrong
to mention the Muslims kill gay people.

BS: There are many gay Christians. You are over-generalizing if not actively misrepresenting the truth.

BS2: No one argues that Christianity is a threat; many argue, myself included, that allowing the religious to have special rights over and above the law based on nothing more than a claim of "religious belief."

BS3: Some Muslims kill gay people, not all Muslims. As you so aptly point out that it is wrong to classify all Christians as the ridiculous, theocrats that many of them are ... you're way overstating a fringe truth. Those same extremists you're talking about kill other Muslims as well. Asinine generalizations.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: pyramid head

Of course it is an important issue, just like those getting Murdered in Uganda, and that was heavily influenced by American Christians.

The Uganda issue is your opinion, not a fact.
The point of your thread is to deamonize people who disagree with you.

You have made zero threads on the murder of these groups by the president. Not all issues are equal, as a person who supports these groups you should be talking about them being murdered by the president. If you had done both I wouldn't have commented.

originally posted by: pyramid head

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: pyramid head

Of course it is an important issue, just like those getting Murdered in Uganda, and that was heavily influenced by American Christians.

The Uganda issue is your opinion, not a fact.
The point of your thread is to deamonize people who disagree with you.

You have made zero threads on the murder of these groups by the president. Not all issues are equal, as a person who supports these groups you should be talking about them being murdered by the president. If you had done both I wouldn't have commented.

LGBT Ugandans Attacked and Killed as Tabloid Publishes 'Top 200 Homos'

Ugandan Gay Rights Activist David Kato Found Murdered

Life Under Uganda's "Kill the Gays" Bill

Etc. etc.

It is not "demonization" to point out that the proposed law in Florida is an absolute mockery of American law and equal rights.

Why don't you start your own thread about topics you find important, rather than trying so feebly to come in and crap on someone else's merely because you disagree?

Take your own bitter prescription, doctor.

originally posted by: pyramid head

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: pyramid head

Of course it is an important issue, just like those getting Murdered in Uganda, and that was heavily influenced by American Christians.

The Uganda issue is your opinion, not a fact.
The point of your thread is to deamonize people who disagree with you.

You have made zero threads on the murder of these groups by the president. Not all issues are equal, as a person who supports these groups you should be talking about them being murdered by the president. If you had done both I wouldn't have commented.

You are correct, the point of the majority of replies
to this thread are to spread hatred and increase
the division between people.

This legislation is about allowing healing to occur
and letting people have religious beliefs and
not having to hide their belief in a closet
and to be forced to not expose anyone to their beliefs
because the majority of people who reply don't want
love and reconciliation.

They want revenge for personal hurts in their lives
and to get revenge one must spread hate and
intolerance in the name of tolerance.

To coexist one must believe and act according to
my standards, you are not allowed to have your
standards if I deem them "bad", you are to hide
your standards in a closet, turn out the light,
and lock the door so no one will be exposed
to what I think are bad standards according to
the book of me.

The legislation is saying, let people have their
standards.

All the boogie man things they pretend
will happen, won't.
People won't be denied
needed medical care.
Any more than gays being out of the closet will
turn heterosexual children into gay people.
Or transsexual people being out of the closet
will mean men will be displaying their
penis's to women in restrooms.
These are just examples
of exaggerated boogie man tales.

The boogie man
in this thread being Christians,
always for this
crowd because they were hurt by a Christian
and seem to have a deep need for revenge.

Where is true love? Where is acceptance?
Where is understanding? Where is live and let live?
Why does one group always have to be shut in the
closet to make the other group happy? So sad.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: pyramid head

This thread is about a specific thing. So we are discussing that thing. It's erroneous to assume members don't care about other issues based on this thread discussion. Unless of course they said something to substantiate that.

I don't agree this issue is petty simply because there are larger issues in the World. Comparing things in that manner is a vehicle for apathy.

My reply is about pointing out the Hipocrisy of the thread that people like yourself will get angry about a law or bill but be silent on the murder of these groups by the president.

Have you seem any LGBT protest outside the whitehouse for the president funding the murder of gays and women? I haven't. For such an "important" issue maybe there should be 1?

If both issues were brought up equally you would have a point, but they are not. The murder of gays and women by the president is never brought up by the LGBT community.

This is a petty issue when your ignoring murder.

Yes, obviously, allowing the religious to have special rights that ignore the laws that the rest of us have to abide by is "bringing people together."

What rot.

The free exercise of religion is guarded by the US Constitution, the Florida Constitution, the Religion Freedom Restoration Act in Florida (Source). This bill is not about religious freedom, it is about legalized discrimination not only against women and LGBT folks, but against any American citizen by any other citizen based on nothing more than a claim of "belief."

The lie is put to the claim that this legislation is not intended, specifically, to remedy any claims of public accommodation against the religious based on specific examples STATED by the Bill's author and sponsor referring to baking cakes, florists, photographers, etc.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

You are intuding and you are doing so on purpose ,don't give me this "we want equal rights ",you demand compliance so Christians who don't accept your choices are punished using legal mouthpieces and rhetoric.
toprightnews.com...

Good grief.

From cavtrooper's link posted directly above:

The largest gay group in one Western state is demanding that Churches who follow the Bible be shut down by the government.

The ONE WESTERN STATE is Wyoming and the ONE GROUP is Equality Wyoming.

There is no demand that churches be "shut down." There is no widespread demand among equal rights groups that churches be shut down.

In fact, even from this ludicrously biased source (Top Right News), a small kernel of truth is readily apparent.

Today, in a stunning statement, Jeran Artery, Chairman of Wyoming Equality argued that churches who do not support same sex marriage should lose their tax exempt status.

“Churches that lobby to have freedoms and rights taken away from ANYONE should absolutely have their 501(c)3 status revoked!!”

501(c)3 Status limits a non-profit from political activism.

Next?

NOT TO MENTION: there was no fiery speech given by Mr. Artery of Wyoming Equality (as maliciously and falsely implied by use of an errant photograph used in the article), it is not the policy of Wyoming Equality to advocate for the universal loss of 502(c)3 status, these right-wing bloggers are doing what they always do and taking something way out of context and using it to fuel Christian victimization.

Here's the social media comment by Mr. Artery:



In case it's too small to read, here's the source at conservativecolorado.com.

Jeran Artery Churches that lobby to have freedoms and rights taken away from ANYONE should absolutely have their 501(c)3 status revoked. PS thanks for ...

So, as anyone can clearly see, it's not an attack by all of gaydom against all of Christendom, it's not even an attack by one remote group in Wyoming, it's a perfectly valid comment by one individual that anyone should have no problem agreeing with ....

... unless of course, one sympathizes with taking away the freedoms and rights of other Americans ...

a reply to: grandmakdw

You are incorrect, the point of the majority of replies
to this thread is to deride discrimination and the division
of LGBT people from the rest of society by forcing them
to seek business services elsewhere simply because
they are gay/transgender, etc.

This legislation is about allowing people to use their
personal prejudices to kick gay/transgender people out
of their establishments, not because they are breaking
any laws or being disruptive or causing any problems, but
simply because they are LGBT.

If this bill is passed, it will only continue the division of LGBT people
from the rest of society, exacerbating tension and bad feelings, not
only on the part of the LGBT society, but on the part of all the supporters
of the LGBT society.

To co-exist, one must believe and act according to "my" standards,
therefore if a gay/transgender person wants to be treated
equally in a business establishment, they must hide their true
selves and lock it away, so that the prejudiced business owner doesn't
have to be exposed.

The legislation is saying, let me break discrimination laws with no
repercussions.

Christians who want to refuse service base their prejudices on
ignorance, as Jesus never said one negative thing about gays or
transgender people. He never said it was a sin to be gay, nor
did he ever say that two gay people getting married was a sin.

The Christians have totally made up their justification to refuse
to treat LGBT people equally, as there is no real justification
from Christ himself. This can only mean that either these Christians
are ignorant of what Christ said, or they are aware but they
want to mistreat LGBT people based on their personal
prejudices and they just use/misuse outdated Old Testament
scripture as their false justification.

The boogie man is the LGBT person who hasn't hurt anyone
and who just wants to be treated equally to everyone else
in commerce.

Where is the love and understanding that Christ preached?
Where is the acceptance of others that Christ preached?
Where is the Golden rule that Christ preached? Why do
Christians want to treat LGBT people unequally when the Christians
themselves would not want to be treated unequally?

Why do LGBT people have to be shut in the closet or shut
out of the business establishment to
make these Christians happy? So sad.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Gryphon66

probably so, but I am wondering if I am interpreting this right? I mean surely, they would want the employees of any hospital to be able to not have to betray their faith and assist on an abortion, so are they granting them the right to do this without any type of reprisal from the hospital, if so, then wouldn't they also be granting the same right to the hospital staff at a catholic hospital to be part of an abortion, because of their deeply held moral belief that it was the right thing to do in that circumstance? I just can't belief that they are so keen on interferring with the rights of employers (both christian and non-christian) like this....

As far as I can see you are interpreting it perfectly.

Unlike many, you have the ability to perceive the unintended outcomes of this ridiculous proposed legislation.

Any erosion of the wall of separation between church and state is moving toward the absolute loss of true religious freedom.

THAT is the fundamental point to be made that the average activist Christian is utterly blinded to.

a reply to: Gryphon66

ultimately, I think it would result in forcing the state to step in and intervene either putting them in a position where it is they that have the sole choice as to which beliefs are worthy and which aren't, thus putting an end to the separation of church and state, or deciding that to roll it back to a more comfortable level, removing all these special accommodations and exemptions that are based on religious beliefs. the christians are taking a rather large gamble here if they think that the end result would be favorable to them in such an instance, since well, they currently enjoy many of these special perks, and would lose much if it went the one way, and well, will lose their religious independence if it went the other, since it would be the government that would decide what is proper to believe and what isn't.

can't see why they would even want to open up that kind of can of worms, but well, here they are, trying so hard to open it!! and demonizing everyone who is speaking out against the idea, even those who are christians themselves and see the danger of what they are trying to do....

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: pyramid head

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: pyramid head

Of course it is an important issue, just like those getting Murdered in Uganda, and that was heavily influenced by American Christians.

The Uganda issue is your opinion, not a fact.
The point of your thread is to deamonize people who disagree with you.

You have made zero threads on the murder of these groups by the president. Not all issues are equal, as a person who supports these groups you should be talking about them being murdered by the president. If you had done both I wouldn't have commented.

LGBT Ugandans Attacked and Killed as Tabloid Publishes 'Top 200 Homos'

Ugandan Gay Rights Activist David Kato Found Murdered

Life Under Uganda's "Kill the Gays" Bill

Etc. etc.

It is not "demonization" to point out that the proposed law in Florida is an absolute mockery of American law and equal rights.

Why don't you start your own thread about topics you find important, rather than trying so feebly to come in and crap on someone else's merely because you disagree?

Take your own bitter prescription, doctor.

Right....
It's ok to criticize Uganda for murder because they're "Christians" commiting the murder. But when the president of the country you actually live in funds the murder of groups you care about, the LGBT community remains silent.

It's not about starting my own thread, it's about pointing the Hipocrisy of this one. The LGBT and it's supporters will demonize anyone and any law they feel is a threat, which is fine, but at the same time remain silent on the president funding the murder of people in the LGBT community.

Like I said, I'm either pointing out the Hipocrisy or informing you on something you should be making a priority, considering it is our tax dollars that is being used by the president to murder gays and women.

a reply to: AmericanRealist

Have you caught up on the 14th Amendment that says Us Mentally ill people get the same protections as you?

a reply to: pyramid head

But when the president of the country you actually live in funds the murder of groups you care about, the LGBT community remains silent.

Please, enlighten me. What group, that I care about, is the President of the United States of America murdering?

Source/Links?