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Florida’s New Anti-Gay, Anti-Woman Bill May Be the Most Malicious Yet

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posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 07:43 AM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw
As it stands a pedophile can walk into a bakery,
lets say a gay owned bakery, and tell the baker,
I am going to have a wedding ceremony and my
partner is 6 years old. We are in love and
having a ceremony without
the certificate, its a "pretend" wedding.


That is 100% UNTRUE! You don't know the law. You are wrong. Unless the baker makes cakes for OTHER pedophile weddings, he cannot be legally compelled to do this. He can only be legally compelled to do what he does for any other member of the public. He does not have to provide special decorations, nor does he have to provide a cake for something that is against the law. Pedophilia is not a sexuality. It's a disorder. And is not a protected class.



Do you agree that all of the above florists/bakers/
photographers must serve the customers as presented
in the scenarios?


No. NONE of them do! You are wrong in every count.

Nude people are NOT a protected class. Unless you do other nude events, you cannot be legally compelled to do a nude event.
No florist or baker can be legally compelled to use ANY decorations they don't want to.

You are bloviating about something you know nothing about. I don't know if you're getting your information from Mike Huckabee, Rush Limbaugh, or some random poster on the Free Republic, but you couldn't be more WRONG.

Care to try for a Bestiality wedding?




posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 07:44 AM
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a reply to: WCmutant

No, that is DEFINITELY how things are argued these days. Freedom itself may be simple, but political rhetoric has disguised the simplicity in tons of bull#.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 07:58 AM
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originally posted by: ladyvalkyrie
The people who want to deny marriage rights to gays, that refuse to bake a cake to celebrate love..... they are not practicing their religion.


So true! They are USING their religion to justify their own personal prejudices. Jesus would weep!



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 08:00 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm kind of afraid of the economic power that the religious right might have managed to accumulate over the past few decades. After reading about the catholic hospitals I kind of get the impression that they've grown in number a great deal....
while other non-religious hospitals have been smothered out and bought out by them. I find myself wondering if it's possible that someday, we could end up having entire towns and cities where just about all of the businesses are "christian owned" and well, then there won't be the freedom to go down the street to the next place... it might be the next city, or the next state. if that ever happens it won't be freedom of religion for the people, but it will be freedom of religion for the elite....the businesses, ect. who will then be dictating their religious views onto the people, who will have to accept them weather they see them as moral or not. Just like those doctors who are finding themselves having to operate in catholic hospitals who now can't take care of their patients with treatments that they see as the safest, and best methods, but rather possibly endanger their patients lives by denying those treatments to them. heck they can't even talk about those treatments to them in a catholic hospital. That is just as much as an infringement of freedom of religion as a bakery having to bake a gay couple a wedding cake, to be honest, I see it as a greater infringement since the bible and just about every other religion and belief system seems to not look too kindly when it comes to causing a person's death!



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 08:18 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

There's probably a good chance that we will see some economic "Balkanization" over time. While I do my best to continue to believe in the promise of America ... the facts are all too clear: we are composed of at least six or seven "different" nations. It's not as simplistic as the Republican/Democrat "us vs. them" scenario ... there are regional differences, cultural differences, logical geographic differences, et. al.

... and that's simply cultural and historical evolution. If we don't grow and change, we die. It may not be fun to live through at times, but ... we've been here a while and we'll probably be here a while longer.

However, I would agree that the USA of the mid-20th century is gone for good.

Perhaps the apparent unification was merely a function of different groups not having a strong voice, perhaps not.

On the direct personal level though, I think the economics of healthcare will outweigh ridiculous prejudices in the long run.

Again though, that's a belief in the power of the market, and we all know that religious belief/delusion is not an insignificant force either.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: dawnstar

The rise of religious rights power to influence financially every aspect of society stated with Reagan rights for them to get accredited colleges base on religious studies, to train lawyers, doctors and more in the name of God works.

After that we are now to see the fruits of that efforts, money to buy politicians, money to run campaigns and power to influence political opinion.

Yes you are right, they are very slowly buying out hospitals and more.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 08:49 AM
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a reply to: Darth_Prime

As I read through all the comments, I see the Gay community whines about intolerance, and yet it seems you are intolerant to anyone who doesn't agree or accept your lifestyle. It's called freedom to form one's own opinion just as you have your freedoms. I say why should a preacher have to marry a gay couple, or a baker have to make your cake if it's against his religion? Why should any business be forced to accept it? It's his loss of your patronage...and why in God's name would you even want to give one of these businesses your patronage? There are plenty of other preachers, bakers, florists and other businesses that would much appreciate your business. I can guarantee that once you sue the crap out of any business that refused you service and you won your case, none of your community is going to go to that business anyways, the whole ordeal would have been just to prove a point and in doing so, you'd destroy their business if you could. Now who's being intolerant? I wish you guys would just celebrate all the advances that you've made over the years and leave Christian people alone! For every idiot that don't want your business, there are a dozen more just down the street who'd love to serve you. Let Christians be Christians...just like you want them to let you be gay. Tolerance is a two-way street.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 08:59 AM
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originally posted by: Rezlooper
I wish you guys would just celebrate all the advances that you've made over the years and leave Christian people alone!


The advancements that have been made over the years have been made fighting and kicking against... the CHRISTIANS who are determined to keep gay people from enjoying the same rights that the rest of us have. It only seems like "gays against Christians", because the biggest and most powerful lobby working to deny gay people their rights are CHRISTIANS.

Don't give me this "leave Christians alone" crap when they are the ones who, for YEARS, have spent millions (probably billions) of dollars to keep gays "in their place". If Christians would have left gay people alone, there wouldn't be this issue now.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: Rezlooper

I agree with you....to a point. Don't want to bake gay wedding cakes? Fine. Be sure and post a big sign so that everyone knows what a hateful POS you are. I, personally, would go out of my way to boycott your business even though I'm straight. Let the free market sort them out.

What's scary is the denial of health care, denial of adoptions, the ability to legally fire a gay person from their job for no other reason than being gay....that goes beyond free market and goes straight into harming people directly for no other reason than who they choose to love in their free time. That's effed up to the Nth degree.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 09:08 AM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

A movement had to start somewhere, and you've come a long way. Trust me, the only ones still fighting against you is the far, far religious right. I am on the right and I see it, even my own church is very tolerant. I'm not against any of your achievements and as a business owner, there's no way I'd refuse your service (your dollars spend just the same), but this whole gay vs Christian thing is getting tiresome. To me, it seems your community won't be happy until every last person embraces you with open arms. News flash...it ain't never gonna happen!



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 09:14 AM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

Care to try for a Bestiality wedding?


Which the bakery in question DID do a cake for if I remember correctly.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 09:16 AM
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originally posted by: Rezlooper
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Trust me, the only ones still fighting against you is the far, far religious right.


All of these "religious freedom" laws are aimed at gay people. Religious businesses have no issue with serving liars, divorced people, atheists, other religions, or ANY "sinners" that want to do business with them. It's ONLY LGBT people who are being targeted. Whomever is fighting against equal rights, they have a lot of power, and they've been very successful (not that this FL bill will be successful).


...this whole gay vs Christian thing is getting tiresome.


On that, we can agree.



To me, it seems your community won't be happy until every last person embraces you with open arms.


It's not an "embrace with open arms" that people want. It's simply equal treatment under the law. If a religious person has the legal right to turn away gay people, but gay people don't have the legal right to turn away religious people, then it's not EQUAL!



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 09:19 AM
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originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
Which the bakery in question DID do a cake for if I remember correctly.


They did a wedding cake for 2 dogs, but when it came to a wedding cake for gay people, forget it! Gay marriage was illegal at the time. (As if dog weddings were legal!) LOL!



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 09:19 AM
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a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

I agree with you. I am only looking at the business owner point of view, but also, I think it's absolutely ridiculous to expect a preacher to marry a gay couple against his wishes. No one should be refused medical services or be fired from a job. Totally agree. I own concession stands at fairs and festivals and I have a gay couple, two girls, who work for me and they are awesome. The best two workers I got. They are fast and great with the public, and work so well together that I rarely split them apart. My point is that I applaud the gay community for how far they've come and I think any business owner who would refuse their dollars is an idiot, but at the same time, it's their right to be an idiot.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 09:53 AM
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originally posted by: Rezlooper Benevolent Heretic Gryphon66

a reply to: Darth_Prime

As I read through all the comments, I see the Gay community whines about intolerance, and yet it seems you are intolerant to anyone who doesn't agree or accept your lifestyle. It's called freedom to form one's own opinion just as you have your freedoms. I say why should a preacher have to marry a gay couple, or a baker have to make your cake if it's against his religion? Why should any business be forced to accept it? It's his loss of your patronage...and why in God's name would you even want to give one of these businesses your patronage? There are plenty of other preachers, bakers, florists and other businesses that would much appreciate your business. I can guarantee that once you sue the crap out of any business that refused you service and you won your case, none of your community is going to go to that business anyways, the whole ordeal would have been just to prove a point and in doing so, you'd destroy their business if you could. Now who's being intolerant? I wish you guys would just celebrate all the advances that you've made over the years and leave Christian people alone! For every idiot that don't want your business, there are a dozen more just down the street who'd love to serve you. Let Christians be Christians...just like you want them to let you be gay. Tolerance is a two-way street.


You are correct.
I have seen more intolerance, hatred for others,
ugly name calling, and downright meanness
in the people calling for tolerance in this thread.


Last night I was reading a book about love
and realized that the toxic environment
caused by the intolerant and hateful
responses that are generated on each page
have hurt my ability to love others.
And caused me to be not so nice in return.

In defending loving others,
by allowing them to live the way they
want to and not be forced into doing
things they don't want to do;

the responses
I get back that are hate-filled, rude, and
generally done by people who clearly have
toxic souls is beginning to infect me with
a disease of toxic ugliness.


You are correct that by refusing business
the business will eventually burn out.
But the loving thing to do, the tolerant
thing to do, is to allow people the freedom
of their beliefs.

If they turn away business, then they are
the ones who will suffer. Customers in
the US always have a choice of going somewhere
else, always. The internet insures that.

So the loving, kind, and tolerant thing to do
is allow them to not be forced into doing
things they don't want to do causing bitterness
and hatefulness to grow in their hearts,
and increasing the divide between people
rather than healing.


But the people on this thread who wallow in
toxicity and hate and who love nothing more
than to baptize others into the
toxic cesspool of hatred for fellow man, in the
guise of tolerance are getting to much for me.

I have seen "them" gloat how they chased people off
ATS, well I can understand why. Hounding people
with ugly epitaphs, and toxic replies, and hate,
until they fill others with their version of how to
be tolerant through hating everyone who isn't
like them, well it is getting too much.

I see it regularly with people who claim to be
tolerant and liberals,
old school liberals really did believe in freedom,
the new school liberals believe in
punishment for those who they believe are
intolerant and who disagree with them.


That is played out in all it's glorious hatred
and toxicity and ugliness in this thread.

I for one choose love and freedom.

Let people be, let them be free,
let them follow their conscience,
if it kills their business, so be it,
that is life. But don't force them to
hate more and increase their hatred
by forcing them to do things against
their will.

That is the opposite of love, it is
toxic hatred in it's ugliest form
parading as love and tolerance.




edit on 9Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:59:50 -0500am102910amk294 by grandmakdw because: format



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Great post. And that about sums it up.



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

I see you're trying to blame other people for your behavior here...

You clearly don't realize how hateful and toxic your posts come across. You're paying lip service to "love and tolerance", while actually speaking with hatred and intolerance yourself. There are plenty of beautiful religions people on this forum who speak with love and tolerance. They disagree with me on issues, but do so with respect and open hearts. And I'm very respectful of them. If others speak with hatred and call me names, I'm not likely to have much respect for them, though...

You get back what you put out there.
edit on 10/29/2015 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 10:15 AM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Always the victim. Why not be a real conservative and take personal responsibility for your actions instead of blaming others. Isn't that a conservative mantra?



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

so where's the internet site that will show a husband how to safely perform a c-section along with a tubal litagation for the couple who is living in the area where the only hospitals within a 100 miles are connected to the catholic church??? does it also help them obtain the equipment necessary along with the drugs some of which are probably reserved only to be used by doctors and surgeons?
right now there are several cases that have been brought against large health provider groups that are sponsored with the catholic church for refusing to provide medical care which are claimed to be the best method of treatment. This law would probably make it danged near impossible to sue them if their refusal to provided the best method of treatment and they cause the death of their patient because of it.
and... does this law also give the doctors and nurses at these hospitals the same right to follow their moral beliefs if they believe that it is better to advise their patient that the best choice is to abort the baby because of the danger the pregancy poses? will it really allow the healthcare workers in these hospitals the right to act according to their moral standards when it goes in the opposite direction of the christian right?



posted on Oct, 29 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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What I am seeing is people who just came out of the closet,
and I am happy for them to be out
and to be free to be who they are
and to be free to choose how they live!

Wanting to shove the people who hurt their feelings
into the closet and lock the door.
Forcing others to hide what they truly are and not
allowing them the freedom to choose how they live.


That is not love, it is revenge and creates a toxic
environment for all. It increases hatred and division
and puts people on polar opposite sides shouting
ugly epithets at each other.

This legislation is to allow everyone to be out of the closet,
to be who they are,
to believe as they want to believe.
That is real love, that is real tolerance, that is real
acceptance.



edit on 10Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:46:23 -0500am102910amk294 by grandmakdw because: format addition



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