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Atheist Awarded $2M in Settlement After Being Refused Secular Rehab Treatment

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+12 more 
posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:30 PM
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Yep this pretty much needs to stop. Requiring people to attend religious programs or prayers or whatever?? Not acceptable.


An atheist who spent a year in a California prison for methamphetamine possession charges in 2007 was awarded nearly $2 million on Wednesday as part of a settlement related to a lawsuit claiming that his religious freedom was violated when he refused to participate in a court ordered rehab program with a religious spin.

In a case that has dragged on for seven years, Barry Hazle Jr. charged the state of California and a contractor with infringing on his religious freedoms by ordering him to spend 90 days in a rehab facility that required him to submit to a "higher power" as a part of its 12-step program.

news.vice.com...

Personally I don't have a problem with the choice given to attend a faith based treatment program, but being ordered to attend one? How long I wonder have officials being getting away with forcing this on people? We've heard kids being forced in schools and now this? And we hear non-stop about this so called persecution of christians on Fox news. Give me a break.




posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

I totally agree that there should be a choice between religious and secular rehab treatment; but, why is he entitled to 2 million dollars that he might just spend on more methamphetamine?



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:36 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

It was wrong but 2 million is ridiculous. Even if he was literally dragged by the feet into the program 2 million is absurd.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:37 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

I think that is standard AA type stuff.

The "higher power" can be a pencil, your family or whatever. I had a drunk uncle come out of AA spouting all kinds of AA doctrine for awhile before he started drinking himself to death again.

Find an AA guy and they can give you details. It is standard stuff I think, not religious.


+1 more 
posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:39 PM
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Well perhaps if the godless were better at rehabilitating drug addicts than Christians are, there would be more options for the judge to choose from?


+5 more 
posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:41 PM
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a reply to: Atsbhct

why is he entitled to 2 million dollars

He was subsequently thrown in jail for 100 days because he wouldn't attend the program [he requested a secular one]. More than 3 months in jail. I'm fine with this settlement.


he might just spend on more methamphetamine?

'Might' being the operative word. Lets hope 100 days was long enough to kick the habit.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:44 PM
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I know it isn't worth 2 million dollars to listen to someone's dogma. I do it for free on ATS and don't get paid squat.




posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:45 PM
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a reply to: Bone75

Regardless if the rehab program involves religion or not, 40-60% (probably higher) of all addicts undergoing treatment or attending support will relapse.

I don't think anyone can conclusively prove that religion based addiction treatment is anymore effective than a purely clinical or secular treatment



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I respect your opinion. Personally, I'd be fine with methamphetamine addicts being put in jail for 100 days. I think jails are often secular.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:49 PM
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a reply to: Bone75

AA/NA doesn't have have all that great of a success rate, they just have a damn near monopoly on the process and what rehab centers follow.

As far as the op, I say 2 mil is way to much, must of had a damn good lawyer. But i do agree with his principle.

Even for 3 months I think 2 mil is a bit much. Unless he had a job or source of income that made something close to that.
edit on thMon, 26 Oct 2015 22:51:58 -0500America/Chicago1020155880 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)


+3 more 
posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

The Judges decree was a clear violation of the establishment clause within the 1st amendment and the understanding of the intent regarding separation of church and state.

This is a good outcome because it upheld the over-riding authority that the Constitution has over the judges opinion on such matters.


+1 more 
posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: Bone75

Well perhaps if the godless were better at rehabilitating drug addicts than Christians are


In last month's Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment, University of New Mexico addiction specialist William Miller and his colleagues presented findings from two controlled trials in which patients underwent drug treatment. Some of the patients received spiritual guidance as part of the treatment — learning such practices as prayer, meditation and service to others, all of which are central to 12-step programs. Others received secular psychotherapy. Because of the enduring popularity of AA and similar programs that involve a spiritual component, Miller and his team expected the patients in the spiritual group to do better than those in the secular group. They were wrong — at least in the short term.

While both groups eventually benefited relatively equally from their treatment — abusing substances on fewer days — it took longer to see improvement among those in the spiritual group. What's more, those who received spiritual guidance reported being significantly more anxious and depressed after four months than those who got secular help. Those problems abated at about the eight-month point, but because substance abusers are at high risk for suicide, some worry that it may not be a good idea to put them through demanding spiritual calisthenics in the early months of their recovery. link

This addiction specialist disagrees with you. All the results of a controlled study.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:58 PM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian
Oh FFS.
What a load of crap.
Here are the 12 steps that "violated his religious freedom"

1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.
2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5.Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6.Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7.Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

This has worked for millions of people since it was founded back in 1935.
Talking about religion or a specific 'higher power' is not allowed in AA

ANYONE that has been in AA knows that that 'higher power' can be anything!
Family, The people of AA, hell, one Indian friend called a Red Tailed Hawk his 'higher power'.

Many atheists have been and are in AA with no contradictions of their beliefs. AA is not affiliated with ANY religion.

He had a court mandated rehab program, the only state certified program available, and they let him out of it because he was OFFENDED.
And awarded him 2 MILLION DOLLARS?????

This country is so #ed.
edit on 10 26 2015 by stosh64 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
I know it isn't worth 2 million dollars to listen to someone's dogma. I do it for free on ATS and don't get paid squat.



In AA discussing 'dogma' is not allowed.

The point is your supposed to admit you are powerless over alcohol or drugs, and that you need help outside yourself to quit.
Many use the AA group itself as a 'higher power'.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 11:03 PM
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a reply to: stosh64




ANYONE that has been in AA knows that that 'higher power' can be anything!
Family, The people of AA, hell, one Indian friend called a Red Tailed Hawk his 'higher power'.


And this is rather new in the process, but the entire premise is to give your life to a higher power which is pretty much step one to any religion.
As in the part of you saying it can be whatever you want, I know what step 11 says but the practice of that is new IMO.



3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.


Once they take out god from their teachings, then I will agree they are not pushing religion on you.
The twelve steps is founded on your relationship with 'god'. How is that not religious?
edit on thMon, 26 Oct 2015 23:06:06 -0500America/Chicago1020150680 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 11:03 PM
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Good.

I've just been reading up on this as well - - it kinda ties in:




Atheists Demand ‘Right to Know Act’ for Patients in America’s Religious Health Care System

Posted on: September 29, 2015
Cranford, NJ—American Atheists today announced a campaign to enact legislation that would require health care providers to inform patients, insurance companies, and government agencies about any medical procedures and services the provider chooses not to perform because of the provider’s religious beliefs. news.atheists.org...



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 11:04 PM
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a reply to: stosh64

It's not AA. The place is called Empire Recovery Center.

Read their "My Story" example and notice the god this god that all throughout it: link


"I just knew they would teach me all I needed to know about God."

edit on 26-10-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 11:07 PM
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originally posted by: Bone75
Well perhaps if the godless were better at rehabilitating drug addicts than Christians are, there would be more options for the judge to choose from?


Or maybe, the christians are better at being drug addicts, or maybe christians need an excuse to blame someone/something else for the problems, just like randy marsh



Or maybe we are both wrong... We properly are, but boy, arent the guessing/blame game fun...



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 11:09 PM
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originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: stosh64

It's not AA. The place is called Empire Recovery Center.

Read their "My Story" example and notice the god this god that all throughout it: link


"I just knew they would teach me all I needed to know about God."


Before somebody jumps on you. Apparently, that link is an old site.

Here is the new one: www.empirerecoverycenter.org...



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 11:12 PM
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a reply to: Lucid Lunacy


Our programs use
evidence-based tools, social model, peer-group oriented recovery, and introduction to 12 step programs (AA, NA, Alanon), alumni and family groups.


From the site.
If it is the 12 step program then it is AA.
edit on thMon, 26 Oct 2015 23:13:07 -0500America/Chicago1020150780 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)



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