Goodbye Middle Class, 2014 SSA wage info.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

Computer's public ect have limited window, some jobs make access to them impossible. Also exceedingly limited in use. People need more than to just live. It also works better than tv, and videogame systems and a million other things for giving people something to do. Internet is a relatively low cost way to give people something.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

So the workers should have less then our parents but the owners can have all they want?

Technology should be improving everyone's life not destroying the middle class while the 1% rake in all the profits.

We should see our kids have more not less. Any generation whose kids have less buying power then their parents is a generation that failed their children.

Add - and I have had no problem telling my own mother that her generation failed.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

So the workers should have less then our parents but the owners can have all they want?

Technology should be improving everyone's life not destroying the middle class while the 1% rake in all the profits.

We should see our kids have more not less. Any generation whose kids have less buying power then their parents is a generation that failed their children.

You don't think this current generation of 20 and 30 somethings lives better than if they lived in say, the 1950s?

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby
I work as an independent rig welder, all that stuff you said in your last post doesn't even close match reality. I need a 3500 truck 4x4 I need multiple welding machines, I need my own phone internet and insurance. I need certification that costs money everything from rigging to heavy equipment operation all the way to OSHA and twic. I wonder what its like to be a small construction business, I bet its a nightmare right now, I know people with machine shops (small businesses) that are suffering. American employment in industry is in a decline and we used to be the leader. Soon IT jobs will be a dime a dozen as well. Wake up, we are in serious trouble.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

About equal to the 50s, but worse then the 80s. And we should be comparing to the 80s not the 50s.

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby
a reply to: Puppylove

OK, include transportation. What monthly dollar amount, after taxes are taken out, do you think you deserve in order to provide for your beyond just surviving existence? What do you have to offer as far as a productive member of society to earn this amount?

I'm not an economist, but I know what we get really isn't enough.

As for the roommate thing. I have one, is why I can afford to live.

Was a time when that wouldn't be necessary. You know before the corporations took advantage of equal rights for women to basically slowly cut pay in half.

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby
I work as an independent rig welder, all that stuff you said in your last post doesn't even close match reality. I need a 3500 truck 4x4 I need multiple welding machines, I need my own phone internet and insurance. I need certification that costs money everything from rigging to heavy equipment operation all the way to OSHA and twic. I wonder what its like to be a small construction business, I bet its a nightmare right now, I know people with machine shops (small businesses) that are suffering. American employment in industry is in a decline and we used to be the leader. Soon IT jobs will be a dime a dozen as well. Wake up, we are in serious trouble.

You do know you have a choice for what you pursue to make a living right? No one forced you into your profession. At least I hope not. Not everyone gets to do exactly what they want to do. This point seems lost on the entitled though.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby
So if I choose to do this but cant afford to work get a job in something else because I'm forced to just to pay taxes and rent in section 8 housing or whatever? What are you really trying to say here? I turn 30 on Saturday, I'm a multiple time war veteran from the USMC, not only do I think I'm entitled to work in the profession I chose, I spent a long long long time getting good at what I do, the problem is, is that the market I'm in is heavily exploited by big companies unless your union so one of two ways rig welder or union cause anything else is a waste of time. Being a welder I get to see how factors such as metal prices and machine costs directly effect peoples jobs. I'm telling you, it doesn't look good. I chose to do what I do because its what I know, I think your choice argument is shameful. Some people don't get to choose their occupation and alot of those fine folks also dont get much of a choice when it comes to what they eat or where they sleep either. That's a problem.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

About equal to the 50s, but worse then the 80s. And we should be comparing to the 80s not the 50s.

Compared to the 80s, these 20/30 somethings walk around with a computer in their pockets (usually in their hand, oblivious to the world around them,) connected to the internet. That alone is mind blowing compared to the 80s.

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

About equal to the 50s, but worse then the 80s. And we should be comparing to the 80s not the 50s.

Compared to the 80s, these 20/30 somethings walk around with a computer in their pockets (usually in their hand, oblivious to the world around them,) connected to the internet. That alone is mind blowing compared to the 80s.

When I graduated in 1991 I could afford a one bedroom apartment and a car on minimum wage. I worked OT to have extra stuff but I didn't have to to keep my apartment. I had a sense of pride in myself.

If a 20 year old is lucky enough to find a full time job they will still need at least one roommate to have what I had by myself. Today's kids feel like slaves trapped in a system they can't get ahead in.

A smartphone does not make someone privileged.

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby
So if I choose to do this but cant afford to work get a job in something else because I'm forced to just to pay taxes and rent in section 8 housing or whatever? What are you really trying to say here? I turn 30 on Saturday, I'm a multiple time war veteran from the USMC, not only do I think I'm entitled to work in the profession I chose, I spent a long long long time getting good at what I do, the problem is, is that the market I'm in is heavily exploited by big companies unless your union so one of two ways rig welder or union cause anything else is a waste of time. Being a welder I get to see how factors such as metal prices and machine costs directly effect peoples jobs. I'm telling you, it doesn't look good. I chose to do what I do because its what I know, I think your choice argument is shameful. Some people don't get to choose their occupation and alot of those fine folks also dont get much of a choice when it comes to what they eat or where they sleep either. That's a problem.

Entitled? Why? Because you chose to join the military?

I spent a long time getting good at playing music. I tried it as a career and was able to squeak by for about 2 years (and I had to buy my own equipment too, oh my.) But it wasn't providing me the comfort in life that I wanted, so adapted to make my life better.

a reply to: netbound

No one wants to think about it, but most white collar jobs will be gone before blue collar jobs. Jobs like a business analyst mainly exist these days so that people can interact with a human. It's 100% replaceable with a computer.

White collar jobs tend to be more intellectual, and computers can process information way faster than a person. Lets take a typist, I'm familiar with that since I have those skills I have one of the highest typing speeds in the world (not officially ranked or anything but I'm in the top 1%) at 173wpm when error corrected, I can type faster than most people speak and usually faster than I can imagine them when just thinking up words to say.

That skill used to be something I could use on a job, in college in the past I typed a lot of papers for people who would give me notes/handwritten copies, and I've typed my own papers quickly too. I've turned more than a few heads in actual businesses when transcribing information. The problem is that this is a skill that's quickly vanishing, thanks to dictation software there's very little professional need to type fast. Just another white collar job that's gone.

A lot of jobs are going to disappear, and there's going to be little for us to do at work. Which means the solution is lower hours (we already got part of this), and probably a change in economic models because people are no longer going to be trading labor.

originally posted by: TycoonBarnaby
You don't think this current generation of 20 and 30 somethings lives better than if they lived in say, the 1950s?

The economic situation these days is much worse. We have more gadgets, but gadgets aren't a measure of quality of life.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby
Oh one of those arguments, well I did join the military I think because I invested 6years and 4 deployments to fight my countries battles in Iraq and other places abroad, I think I'm entitled to work the industry I chose to. I guess fighting to defend freedom and having it are a bit different now isn't it?

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby
Oh one of those arguments, well I did join the military I think because I invested 6years and 4 deployments to fight my countries battles in Iraq and other places abroad, I think I'm entitled to work the industry I chose to. I guess fighting to defend freedom and having it are a bit different now isn't it?

Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you're just being entitled, go out and work a second and third job. Try earning some real skills and stop mooching off of me.

This is all sarcasm, but is exactly what half the country believes when they hear a story like yours.

a reply to: Aazadan
3 weeks ago I did 4 12 hour days prepping a loader and then a 16 hour day welding it non stop, once you start banging out on T1 steel 4in thick you don't stop till its done lest you risk the metal crack in half and fall apart waste 4 days and hundreds of dollars in material. When I finished each of those days on site went back to the garage and started prepping a cat excavator bucket for a few hours a night. I feel I'm entitled to work this way.

You can all keep complaining about it, but that is not helping you one bit in life. Should the massive discrepancy exist between the top and the bottom? No. Should people who are unhappy with their current position do something about it? YES! Change. Adapt. Survive. It should be an animal instinct driving you to make sure your life is as comfortable as you can make it. I am not holding you back. I am also not here to prop you up though.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

You also seem to think we need to just accept things as they are and do nothing about them. Just buck up and work as hard as they require of us whether it's right, wrong, or even remotely necessary for the company to be successful or society as a whole.

It may not be today, it may not be tomorrow but a revolution is coming. Working our asses off while accepting the system as is "might" improve some things for ourselves in the short term, but does nothing for any of us long term.

Most of us "complainers" aren't concerned about just ourselves, we're trying to help the world, our country and others wake up so we can make a real difference for everybody.

I'm surviving right now. I'm mostly alright, but others aren't and I actually give a # about that more than to just tell them to accept things and work more.

The real problems need to be dealt with. You don't want any part in that, I get it, but you all need to stop telling people to get over it and accept things while at the same time recognizing there's some problems. If there's problems they need to be fixed, it won't be done by just accepting things as they are.

People need to wake up and care if anything is going to get better, and that will not happen with you and everyone elses just accept it and work however is necessary in the bs society that exists today.

a reply to: netbound

Excellent post.... starred.

One thing I have learned is life is very dynamic. I supposed the uproar from the wagon wheel workers was loud and harsh. Maybe not so loud from the industrious wheel makers that learned how to fix the horseless carriages.

Or how about the typewriters. It used to be a job in the beginning. Now its an antiquated machine.

Or the computer. Was just a job once too.

My point is, as time changes, people need too also. Or get left behind.

One of my teachers in high school once told me, it doesnt matter what you learn in school. You will likely change careers at least 5 times before you retire. I suppose that has increased along with the exponential increase in information and technology.

If your job goes the wayside, find a new niche to supply your work ethic and skills to.

Otherwise it is just socialism you wish for. And we know how well that doesnt work.

Monthly Living wage, bare minimum in US:

1 bedroom apartment rent: $600
Electric bill: $50 ($120 in winter if electric heat.)
Food: $150
Cell phone $45
Car insurance: $75
Car fuel/oil: $100
------
Total monthly: $1,020

So considering you make the 29 hours a week and work 4 weeks a month at $10 an hour that's $1,160 a month. In my state they tax 20% out of your paycheck.

$1,160 -20% = $928 monthly income

WE ARE STILL SHORT 40 OR SO DOLLARS TO PAY THE BASIC LIVING EXPENSES!

in the USA nobody will hire you without a PHONE, and "RELIABLE TRANSPORTATION" unless you are fortunate enough to live within walking or biking/public transit of the job.

Pull a second job, they take out %20 from that paycheck. You now being taxed 40% of your income if you have two jobs that's why they are a burn out and not many people can pull off two jobs at once.