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While You Were Sleeping: 44% of Republicans Favor an American Theocracy

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posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw


A "real" Christian is not ashamed or afraid of talking about
their faith in public as a politician.

Like that one guy, you mean, who said "God told me to invade Iraq"? That guy?

I know who I mean, do you? You remember him, right? Just checking.

Politicians should NOT parade around their "Christianity" - because CHURCH and STATE are two separate things.
But you don't get that, just like you don't get that your ridiculous assessment of Democrats is...well, ridiculous.
You just keep saying it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

By the way, Obama is a professing Christian.


edit on 10/26/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: grandmakdw


It concerns me that given half a chance they would introduce their religious beliefs into the American political arena, even moreso than the havoc they have created in Congress already..

I do not in any way respect this, or want this. I believe they will trample all over the constitution to get their personal beliefs and religiosity at the forefront and that we should fight this.

My beliefs are personal to me, and I don't want to force them on anyone, anymore than I want anybody else to force their beliefs on me. They already try to force them on people.




If your fears did not happen in the 1950's and earlier
when everyone was convinced we had a Christian nation,
then what makes you think they would actually come to
fruition today, in a very strong anti-theist climate that
exists in the US today?

Specifically what mess did "they" create?

What "havoc" have they specifically created?

How have they "trampled" the constitution?

Can you be specific?

It would help rather than broad sweeping generalizations
that simply are fears rather than specific actions that
have realistically caused you to fear Christians in Congress?



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: luthier




He is also a TV personality. People know him. It's more of a sign of idiocracy on a whole. He says dumb stuff to get in the news.


I can agree with the idiocracy part but what concerns me is all the idiots buying into the dumb stuff he says.

btw....Trump isn't an independent...he's a Republican. Lie down with dogs and expect to get a few fleas!

you scratchin amigo?


Did you read my post? I wouldn't vote for him.
However I am talking about his policy issues not what he is running as.

Do you even know what his platform is or are you just towing your own party line?


Trump is NOT a classic Republican.

Many of his policies are actually much closer to the Democratic platform.

I think that in general people are fed up with establishment
politicians and politicians in general.
That is why Trump who is clearly not really Republican
and Carson (who is but is not a politician) are at the top
of the polls.

People are crying out, anyone please, just not another
politician.
The political class has screwed the country up so badly
we need to try something new. No establishment politician
will ever improve the country at this point, they are all
too entrenched in fund raising and placating to really
make the changes necessary.

So for the Republicans at least, when it comes to Trump,
they don't care that he is not really religious at all.
I know it is a great surprise to many of you that Republicans
care more about getting rid of the corrupt political class
who have ruined the country than religion.


This is true. But I would argue that your points about Democrats are untrue. Most of the politicians are Christian. They may not pander to that vote bit they are not anti Christian. The only anti Christians I know are radical Atheists. Most common sense Atheists are much more just leave me alone about the topic. It's always the radicals that make the most noise.


I challenge you to name US level politicians, Senators, Congressman, etc.
who are Democrats, who are openly Christian
and who openly talk about their faith.
Politicians who claim to be Christian but never talk about
their faith or publicly acknowledge their faith outside
of political rallies (God Bless, and that sort of pap)
don't count. I'm talking about Cruz and Huckabee type
Christians who you know they are without a doubt an
unapologetic Christian.

I bet you won't be able to name a single one.



Thats absurd. How about just ones that go to church regularly and have that as their belief? What does public akwnowledgement have to do with someone's faith?

Even under your circumstance their are plenty and I am sure you know that.


If there are plenty then you won't have any trouble naming them.

If one is not willing to publicly acknowledge their faith, then
they are hiding it and ashamed of it for some reason; so they
don't count if they are ashamed or hiding it.

Going to church does not a Christian make, there are lots of
people who go to church who do it for many reasons,
business contacts, to look good in the community, because
someone drags them along.

So just saying someone goes to church, does not in any way
make someone a Christian.

A "real" Christian is not ashamed or afraid of talking about
their faith in public as a politician.





I don't think that's a real definition of a real Christian. And it's their belief that makes the Christian. Most people faith is private and they don't feel so insecure about it they need everyone to agree with them.

Joe Biden comes to mind. I live in SC and every politician uses god. Just because they accept atheism into the party doesn't make everyone godless. The forefathers did the same in Treatises all the time. They purposely did so in many of the writings and Jefferson even rewrote the bible to take out the super natural.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:49 PM
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any politician who claims to be a true christian would, at least in theory, be working to establish jesus' paradigm on earth in anticipation of his arrival. is that not what it means to be a soldier in gods army? particularly when (to my understanding, at least) his arrival heralds the end of anything (or anyone) that doesnt meet his approval. xenocide, in other words.


edit on 26-10-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:50 PM
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Its beyond annoying that politicians use religion in politics.

No one should be using religion mixed with politics.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw



Specifically what mess did "they" create?


Have you not noticed that Congress has been completely dysfunctional for the last eight years?


What "havoc" have they specifically created?


Have you not noticed that Congress has been dysfunctional for the past eight years?


How have they "trampled" the constitution?


Planned Parenthood? Roe vs. Wade? That's another thread and I'm not going there so forget it. They wasted millions taking Obamacare on appeal over 60 times and even after the Supreme Court ruling, they kept on. They've wasted millions of tax dollars on the Benghazi investigation which is nothing more than a cheap shot at Clinton. They shut down the government so they could feel they have accomplished something, when all they do is hurt the country.

I could go on, but I've got to run out. I'll be back later though. Hope you enjoy your argument.



edit on 10/26/2015 by angeldoll because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: luthier




He is also a TV personality. People know him. It's more of a sign of idiocracy on a whole. He says dumb stuff to get in the news.


I can agree with the idiocracy part but what concerns me is all the idiots buying into the dumb stuff he says.

btw....Trump isn't an independent...he's a Republican. Lie down with dogs and expect to get a few fleas!

you scratchin amigo?


Did you read my post? I wouldn't vote for him.
However I am talking about his policy issues not what he is running as.

Do you even know what his platform is or are you just towing your own party line?


No I don't know what his platform is...he seems to be making it up as he goes along depending on what kind of people are at his rallys. From what Iv'e gathered he hates Hispanics, minorities and women.

www.ontheissues.org...


In other words just talking out of ignorance and towing the party line.

He hates minorities, hispanics, and woman?

Keep drinking the cool aide

The guys a jerk IMO bit that doesn't make any of what you say true. Everyone is so sensitive and pc it hides the real issues.

We have an immigration problem. No one wants to deal with it. Both parties use and abuse minorities and hispanics for either votes or cheap labour. Meanwhile the victims rot in prison and get taken advantage of during every president of every party.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
Its beyond annoying that politicians use religion in politics.

No one should be using religion mixed with politics.


the irony is that only when politics are introduced into spirituality do you get religion.




posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:54 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
any politician who claims to be a true christian would, at least in theory, be working to establish jesus' paradigm on earth in anticipation of his arrival. is that not what it means to be a soldier in gods army? particularly when (to my understanding, at least) his arrival heralds the end of anything (or anyone) that doesnt meet his approval. xenocide, in other words.



Not really. It's up to the interpretation and translation of versus. Allegory, literal, and parrables are all interpreted by the people who follow books.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

By the way, Obama is a professing Christian.



Now you went and done it.

That's high heresy among a certain crowd.

(I have great admiration for you at this moment.
)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: angeldoll

Totally agree with you, angeldoll. Last time we bumped into each other you said you refused to talk to me, but - see? WE AGREE!

Just sayin' ---



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: TzarChasm
any politician who claims to be a true christian would, at least in theory, be working to establish jesus' paradigm on earth in anticipation of his arrival. is that not what it means to be a soldier in gods army? particularly when (to my understanding, at least) his arrival heralds the end of anything (or anyone) that doesnt meet his approval. xenocide, in other words.



Not really. It's up to the interpretation and translation of versus. Allegory, literal, and parrables are all interpreted by the people who follow books.


no, it isnt. the theme is WAR. a war between saint and sinner, the holy and the hedonistic. why else does god need an army?

and what do you think will happen when that army deploys?



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

By the way, Obama is a professing Christian.



Now you went and done it.

That's high heresy among a certain crowd.

(I have great admiration for you at this moment.
)


Everyone knows he is a Muslim. Everyone.


(Sarcasm just in case it's too heated a topic to tell)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: TzarChasm
any politician who claims to be a true christian would, at least in theory, be working to establish jesus' paradigm on earth in anticipation of his arrival. is that not what it means to be a soldier in gods army? particularly when (to my understanding, at least) his arrival heralds the end of anything (or anyone) that doesnt meet his approval. xenocide, in other words.



Not really. It's up to the interpretation and translation of versus. Allegory, literal, and parrables are all interpreted by the people who follow books.


no, it isnt. the theme is WAR. a war between saint and sinner, the holy and the hedonistic. why else does god need an army?

and what do you think will happen when that army deploys?


It's up to God in their eyes. Like the wheat and weeds parable.

Not everyone interprets the bible the same. Not all bibles are the same and not everyone who follows Christ accepts the bible as fact. Seriously there is so much written about this in philosophy its already been argued.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

I would say that in regimes that centrally plan everything like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot instituted the state WAS the religion like it is in North Korea today.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 03:06 PM
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originally posted by: links234
a reply to: Metallicus

Just a clash of ideologies and how they align between the two parties in America.

Extremism is no good in any form. Favoring socialism isn't the same as advocating for a total takeover of the economy and the implementations of gulags and beheading the rich after the next election cycle. However, declaring that Christianity becomes the 'official' religion suggests that whichever popularly elected religious sect institutes laws based on their specific belief system. It goes entirely against the constitution, but like I said, that doesn't matter to these people.



Reading what socialism is, it also totally goes against the COTUS, but don't let the facts of the system get in the way.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 03:08 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: grandmakdw

They might be ant-Christian in their beliefs, but they certainly don't want to take your right to religious freedom away. Pray all you want, attend as many church services as you need. Donate to as many religious charity organizations as you can afford -- just don't force your beliefs on me, or try to incorporate them into new laws.

I think individually, 1-on-1 liberals and Democrats may appear "anti-Christian" -- but on a whole I think you'd find they'd be more open and supportive in allowing everyone to practice their own religious beliefs.

Christians, (from my personal experience) seem to be more intolerant of other religions, as they are seen as a form of competition. To someone who isn't religious -- they could care less who worships what, and want to see everyone's right to practice their faith protected.


Democrats are not anti Christian. Most of the leaders in the party are church going Christians. Catholics Baptists Methodists on and on.


Who? Name a few please who talk openly
about being Catholic or Baptist or Methodist.
And are open about their faith aside from
a perfunctory God Bless at the end of speeches.

Church going means nothing. Lots of people
go to church who are not christians, especially
politicians.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: luthier




He is also a TV personality. People know him. It's more of a sign of idiocracy on a whole. He says dumb stuff to get in the news.


I can agree with the idiocracy part but what concerns me is all the idiots buying into the dumb stuff he says.

btw....Trump isn't an independent...he's a Republican. Lie down with dogs and expect to get a few fleas!

you scratchin amigo?


Did you read my post? I wouldn't vote for him.
However I am talking about his policy issues not what he is running as.

Do you even know what his platform is or are you just towing your own party line?


Trump is NOT a classic Republican.

Many of his policies are actually much closer to the Democratic platform.

I think that in general people are fed up with establishment
politicians and politicians in general.
That is why Trump who is clearly not really Republican
and Carson (who is but is not a politician) are at the top
of the polls.

People are crying out, anyone please, just not another
politician.
The political class has screwed the country up so badly
we need to try something new. No establishment politician
will ever improve the country at this point, they are all
too entrenched in fund raising and placating to really
make the changes necessary.

So for the Republicans at least, when it comes to Trump,
they don't care that he is not really religious at all.
I know it is a great surprise to many of you that Republicans
care more about getting rid of the corrupt political class
who have ruined the country than religion.


This is true. But I would argue that your points about Democrats are untrue. Most of the politicians are Christian. They may not pander to that vote bit they are not anti Christian. The only anti Christians I know are radical Atheists. Most common sense Atheists are much more just leave me alone about the topic. It's always the radicals that make the most noise.


Again, who?
I noticed you haven't been able to name one
Democrat who is proudly and openly Christian,
Democrat Federal level career politician that is.

I can tell you that nearly every Democrat I
have encountered on ATS wants to see
Christianity abolished in the US.
At least that is what they have said,
and that includes quite a few posters
in this thread.
Some want to see Christianity abolished
from the world.

I don't buy your assertion that any career
politician Democrats are openly and proudly
Christians.

That would be the death of their careers
as a politician for the Democratic Party.

Why? Because Democrats think that all
Christians are homophobic,
that all Christians are out to "convert"
or "get" them,
that all Christians want to end all
abortion and that all Christians
are misogynistic.

That is what the quite vocal
Democratic supporters in
Hollywood and in the media
proclaim often and loudly.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 03:16 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Well, there's Nancy Pelosi whose favorite part of the Bible is ... The Word, you know, just The Word.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 03:20 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: grandmakdw


Christians who you know they are without a doubt an
unapologetic Christian.


Which has no place in the White House. Or if it does, we shouldn't know about it except for the "my prayers are with the families", etc. That's it.

Oh, and Jimmy Carter managed to be a good (Dem) Christian President without wearing his religion like a crown. He kept it private.


A "real" Christian is not ashamed or afraid of talking about
their faith in public as a politician.


We disagree here. Two separate entities. Oil and water.



Unapologetic does not mean "wearing it like a crown",
and Jimmy Carter is exactly the kind of man I mean,
there are no more Democrats in office who
demonstrate the kind of Christian faith like he did
while in office.

By unapologetic, I should really have said
unashamed of their faith.
Not willing to compromise their faith to
gain political power.



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