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While You Were Sleeping: 44% of Republicans Favor an American Theocracy

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posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 09:29 AM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Socialism is a religion because it is founded on faith


One of the worst, more ridiculous, absurdly sophist claim ever to grace ATS.

Economical systems aren't religions. Believing that one or the other is better isn't how faith is defined.

Theocracy from republicans? I'm surprised it's not higher than 44%.




posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 09:31 AM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: luthier

I'm not making any statement except that that's a different poll. I'm not worried about a theocracy here. It's not going to happen.

Here's my position. I do believe that a substantial portion of US citizens (not just republicans), but Christians, want Christianity to hold a special place among religions, and to be acknowledged as the official religion of the US.


If that were true it would have
been made an official religion in the
1950's or earlier.

Not going to happen.

The Constitution was written to guarantee
that NO religion would be acknowledged
as the official religion.

The founding fathers
were determined that there would be NO
official religion in the US.

ALL conservatives support the constitution.

Only people who don't support the constitution
would think that an official religion could
ever happen in the US.

I think, most Christians are firmly supportive
of the Constitution as written by the founding
fathers and therefore against any official
religion.


Thing is it is Republicans who firmly support
upholding the constitution as is.

It is Democrats who want a flexible and changeable
constitution.

Therefore, it is far more likely that Democrats
would institute an official religion than Republicans.

Because Republicans hold the constitution as
written so dear and so close, they would never
try and make an official government religion.

Democrats, well they don't like the constitution
as written and are the ones who want to see it
changed.



edit on 9Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:36:23 -0500am102610amk261 by grandmakdw because: format addition



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 09:33 AM
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originally posted by: theMediator

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Socialism is a religion because it is founded on faith


One of the worst, more ridiculous, absurdly sophist claim ever to grace ATS.

Economical systems aren't religions. Believing that one or the other is better isn't how faith is defined.

Theocracy from republicans? I'm surprised it's not higher than 44%.


Don't be rediculous. It's not even close to that. The majority of Republicans are fiscal conservatives. Not back woods morons.

Also plenty of people take ideals to a religious level. You may be correct by definition but there are plenty of people who put their faith into idears and ideals and become zealots to causes.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 09:34 AM
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a reply to: luthier

Most polls suck, IMO.
Pollsters buy lists of respondents and they don't call cell phones, so most of the people they're talking to are older.

Using Salon is like using just about ANY news source. The VAST majority of them are biased, sensational and trying to sell their own particular brand of fear. That's why it's important to look beyond the headline and check several sources.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 09:37 AM
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It's time to come together people. Recognize valid honest debating vs ad homenim arguments. Salon is a divider. Just like Beck or Limbaugh.

Maybe we should just ignore these idiots and try to work on understanding each other and compromise with each other rather than scream at each other and take everything to extremes all the time.

Anyone ever heard of divide and conquer?
edit on 26-10-2015 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: luthier

Most polls suck, IMO.
Pollsters buy lists of respondents and they don't call cell phones, so most of the people they're talking to are older.

Using Salon is like using just about ANY news source. The VAST majority of them are biased, sensational and trying to sell their own particular brand of fear. That's why it's important to look beyond the headline and check several sources.


I agree. Salon is exceptionally bad. Like Limbaugh though. I can't stand the over the top stuff. It's even worse the MSNBC/FOX situation.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: luthier


Salon is a divider. Just like Beck or Limbaugh.

No. Salon is well-written and lucid and provides sources for its claims. Beck and Limbaugh (and Jones) are hysterical clowns who don't deserve any attention at all, FoxNews and NewsMax are tabloids like the National Enquirer and the UK's DailyMail.

I suppose you disparage NPR as a resource, too. *smh*

Just because an outlet or group of journalists have progressive perspectives when discussing actual FACTS does not make them "like Beck or Limbaugh."

Other than that, I think your posts are worthwhile.


Back on topic: The article sourced in the OP (I've read it) doesn't mention any of the candidates by name, although the title leads one to believe it will. There is a picture of Cruz, however. He, Huckabee, and Carson are the most dangerous of the pack.

Unfortunately, our religious members refuse to believe they WANT a theocracy (although it is agreed that it would be impossible with the Constitution as it stands - that doesn't mean they won't continue to subvert it state by state, and it doesn't mean there won't be lots more "Kim Davises" working off stage to insinuate their "beliefs" onto everyone else.)

Some even consider that these Theocrats would push to make new amendments, or strike down existing ones...it happens. The Constitution is a living thing, and its authors had no way of foreseeing the atrocious geo-political and theo-political events occurring now.






edit on 10/26/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: luthier


Salon is a divider. Just like Beck or Limbaugh.

No. Salon is well-written and lucid and provides sources for its claims. Beck and Limbaugh (and Jones) are hysterical clowns who don't deserve any attention at all, FoxNews and NewsMax are tabloids like the National Enquirer and the UK's DailyMail.

I suppose you disparage NPR as a resource, too. *smh*

Just because an outlet or group of journalists have progressive perspectives when discussing actual FACTS does not make them "like Beck or Limbaugh."

Other than that, I think your posts are worthwhile.


Back on topic: The article sourced in the OP (I've read it) doesn't mention any of the candidates by name, although the title leads one to believe it will. There is a picture of Cruz, however. He, Huckabee, and Carson are the most dangerous of the pack.

Unfortunately, our religious members refuse to believe they WANT a theocracy (although it is agreed that it would be impossible with the Constitution as it stands - that doesn't mean they won't continue to subvert it state by state, and it doesn't mean there won't be lots more "Kim Davises" working off stage to insinuate their "beliefs" onto everyone else.)

Some even consider that these Theocrats would push to make new amendments, or strike down existing ones...it happens. The Constitution is a living thing, and its authors had no way of foreseeing the atrocious geo-political and theo-political events occurring now.







No Salon is a terrible publication. In this article alone I could point out rediculous statements and misleading information.

The poll is a joke. They reference misleading information all the time. The first poll they referenced used 316 people and did name candidates it had Scott Walker with the strongest support. Look at that prediction.

The second used 1300 registered voters of UN sourced reference and age. It was a hack of a poll and most polls are bad to begin with. Especially a small one like this without any reference to who was polled besides registered Republican voters.

Salon is a massively divvisive publication. Just because it may support your views doesn't make that not true.

And no npr is nothing at all like salon. Salon is a hack radical misleading publication. Npr has bias but is pretty decent by today's standards.

Jones isn't even a journalist. He is a salesman selling his products. His show is basically an infomercial.
edit on 26-10-2015 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
There is a picture of Cruz, however. He, Huckabee, and Carson are the most dangerous of the pack.


I agree. Carson is ramping up on abortion, wants states to have the power to ban abortions and would love to overturn Roe V Wade. He's a real gem! (Didn't the GOP have a political autopsy after the 2012 election and decide to bring in more women and minorities? They're doing a bang-up job! LOL!)

Yes, Here it is.



...extensive outreach to women, African-American, Asian, Hispanic and gay voters.


LOL! Yep! A fine job! Losers!

I'm not concerned about a theocracy, but these people are doing their best to make MORE theocratic laws!

Salon is no worse than any other site used here.
edit on 10/26/2015 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: links234

Is not going to happen, we are already capitalistic nation that uses socialism in order for one class to keep the profits while the other class has to pay for everybody else shortcomings.

But when it comes to religion we will never become a theocracy.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: links234

Like Noam Chomsky said about the human hard wiring for language, there is a human hard wiring for religion.

Substitute the State for God and you have Socialism, from the same part of the brain.



I was going to say this, but you beat me to it....Jesus Christ was a radical socialist, the only people that he became angry with were the capitalists (of that time), along with the financiers (of that time)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: luthier


And no npr is nothing at all like salon. Salon is a hack radical misleading publication. Npr has bias but is pretty decent by today's standards.

I find NPR to be my number one source - has been for nearly 30 years. I didn't compare them to Salon, just asked if you found them wanting (as they do address topics head-on without sensationalizing, but are a progressive-leaning source).

Reuters isn't too bad either.

Okay, well anyway - *note to self.....don't use Salon when debating with luthier*



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: jimmyx

I think Jesus would be pissed at either the right or the left using him as a poster boy.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:16 AM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
There is a picture of Cruz, however. He, Huckabee, and Carson are the most dangerous of the pack.


I agree. Carson is ramping up on abortion, wants states to have the power to ban abortions and would love to overturn Roe V Wade. He's a real gem! (Didn't the GOP have a political autopsy after the 2012 election and decide to bring in more women and minorities? They're doing a bang-up job! LOL!)

I'm not concerned about a theocracy, but these people are doing their best to make MORE theocratic laws!

Salon is no worse than any other site used here.


Yes salon is worse than many other references. Just look at the headlines of their stories. It's sole purpose is to discredit conservatives. I have just as much a problem with conservatives who do this.

For instance I just read a salon article that bashed Ronda Rousey for not wanting o fight a trans mma fighter or a known steroid abusing female fighter. I have no problem with transgender people (though I do with underage drug treatments) but the male and female bodies are different. Bone density and muscle groups. I guess that makes me sexist and a transphobe though.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:22 AM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: luthier


And no npr is nothing at all like salon. Salon is a hack radical misleading publication. Npr has bias but is pretty decent by today's standards.

I find NPR to be my number one source - has been for nearly 30 years. I didn't compare them to Salon, just asked if you found them wanting (as they do address topics head-on without sensationalizing, but are a progressive-leaning source).

Reuters isn't too bad either.

Okay, well anyway - *note to self.....don't use Salon when debating with luthier*


Sorry. I just see us spiraling down by being so divided all the time. I hate it so much. I do like honest conversations but articles that use ad homenim attacks as a premise are bad for society. On both sides.

If anything we need reasonable people now more than ever. We need to talk about issues without being afraid to hurt feelings but we shouldn't set out to hurt feelings as a goal.

It can't just be about me me me all the time. Sometimes we need to concede to the other side too. Otherwise when they have power they won't either.

Didn't mean to get rude I am just tired of the right and left extremes.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: marg6043


But when it comes to religion we will never become a theocracy.




Really?

How much do you think Zionists determine our foreign policy?



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: marg6043


But when it comes to religion we will never become a theocracy.




Really?

How much do you think Zionists determine our foreign policy?


Our middle East foreign policy? A bunch. Because we use them as a means. Just like we use radical Muslims in the Saudis.

They don't however influence our foreign policy morality. Or lack their of. That began before zionists had power in Congress. Back during treaties in ww1.
edit on 26-10-2015 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: luthier




If anything we need reasonable people now more than ever. We need to talk about issues without being afraid to hurt feelings but we shouldn't set out to hurt feelings as a goal.


Do you even see that as a remote possibility when the Right has fallen in love with the likes of Donald Trump?



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: olaru12


Theocracy, according to the dictionary, is the "government of a state by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided."[1] The Oxford English Dictionary has this definition:
A form of government in which God (or a deity) is recognized as the king or immediate ruler, and his laws are taken as the statute-book of the kingdom, these laws being usually administered by a priestly order as his ministers and agents; hence (loosely) a system of government by a sacerdotal order, claiming a divine commission; also, a state so governed


We are not even close as a nation to be living in a theocratic government, look at the supreme court latest rulings.

Now that religion seems to influence politicians is another topic but as usual is just political crap to keep the religious right happy.

Remember the opinions of politicians is not the sole opinion of every voter and tax payers.



posted on Oct, 26 2015 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: luthier




If anything we need reasonable people now more than ever. We need to talk about issues without being afraid to hurt feelings but we shouldn't set out to hurt feelings as a goal.


Do you even see that as a remote possibility when the Right has fallen in love with the likes of Donald Trump?


Yes. Trump is an independent. He supports a lot of progressive policy. He is not a religious zealot and has moderate views on a lot of things. Universal healthcare, taxing the very wealthy etc.

He is also a TV personality. People know him. It's more of a sign of idiocracy on a whole. He says dumb stuff to get in the news.

I don't support him but he is not a radical by any means.



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