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While You Were Sleeping: Among Democrats 49% Favorable To Socialism

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posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Or we could educate your neighbor, cut your hours in half and both of you will be working equal hours at the same job.

Or better yet we could tell the stockholder sitting at home making a billion a year that his stock belongs to the employees. Now the company can afford to employ you and your neighbor at $40 per hour.

Our neighbors are not working because there are not enough jobs. 99% of able bodied people are willing to work for a living wage.

We have to stop blaming the poor for poverty. The poor have absolutely no control over min wage or job creation. So they do the only thing they can do, vote for Socialist programs.



edit on 25-10-2015 by Isurrender73 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:23 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
This is all about equal outcome. Regardless if you earned it or not.

Everyone gets a trophy.


That's welfare and is not mutually exclusive to Socialism.

In fact it's intrinsically linked to every economic theory/movement aside from Fascism.

And of course the I'm Alright Screw You crowd, but they're a populous minority.
No matter how loud they are on ATS.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:25 PM
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originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Gryphon66

To me, a more socialist example would be working in a factory where all the employees are also owners of the company/factory. The better the factory did, the more profit it makes...The more profit made, the more everyone gets paid. The means of production and the company itself is owned completely by those working for it -- not outside investors, a CEO or a handful of board members.


Humorous side note:

I make a living providing "services" for a corporation that is privately-owned. While they are deeply connected to the GOP and are staunch conservatives, they have learned how to make money hand-over-fist by doing exactly what you described. Not only are the employees or contractors given nice raises for their work, they also share the profits in the form of very generous bonuses.

While I disagree with their political points, they are good Christian men that know who makes them rich.....and they return the favor.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:27 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

It a very sound and unassailable theory. The dollar spent by one is no better than the dollar spent by another.


It would be nice to have the choice of whether you spend it on whatever, or not spend it at all...


Funnily enough that's called Socialism, where the community decides and regulates their own pennies...


But keep that on the down low this thread is hilarious.


Except that socialism is where the dollars made by one person's effort are somehow regarded as belonging to everyone in the group no matter what effort each of them might or might not have put forth.

My dollars (or yen, or rubles, or what have you) are mine, I earned them.

It should be my choice what use they are put to, even if I do decide to give them someone else or yes, contribute them to a collective interest.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:27 PM
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I have THE BEST idea...HOW about a Meritocracy?



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:30 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

No that's Taxation and it happens now under my Conservative Capitalist government and your Democratic Capitalist Government.

Socialism plays no part in what is currently happening...

And everything you just said is currently happening.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


Except that socialism is where the dollars made by one person's effort are somehow regarded as belonging to everyone in the group no matter what effort each of them might or might not have put forth.

See? SEE HOW YOU ARE?

You refuse to get it. You refuse to read up and understand the difference between Communism and Democratic Socialism - and it's YOUR FAULT that you don't understand it.

You and bacon-man.
Which of you is this who is posting, by the way?



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I know you're not talking to me ... but how do you earn your money?

Do you do it surrounded by a society that provides infrastructure? By a society that includes the customers for your goods and services, and the purchases that provide the money that you so crave to claim as wholly "yours"?

Should you live among us, use our resources, take our money from purchases, and not give anything back to help sustain that system?

Sounds like you're the one looking for a handout, Kets.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:32 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus




Thank you. I think most people will find I am quite reasonable and generally have a rather moderate view on topics.


Dunno - maybe it's the sword

:-)



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:34 PM
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originally posted by: cavtrooper7
I have THE BEST idea...HOW about a Meritocracy?


Elaborate how that would work, cav...

Are not crony capitalists and most studious of the law currently the most able to run a society?
But they're already in charge.

Or do we make it Militaristic in nature where the 5 Star General is in charge because he had the best ability in defending a Nation?


Please elaborate.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:38 PM
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Let's face it, no one here with their instant Wifi and fridge full of GMOs is Off The Grid...

We all benefit from society and society in turn should benefit from us.
Most people agree with that way of Life.


It's moot because you're an equally vocal minority, slowly shrinking to non existent.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:39 PM
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a reply to: Cobaltic1978



But would you rather have your taxes subsidising big business or supporting those who are vulnerable and less capable than most of society?


I would prefer small Government and minimal taxes. I don't want to subsidize anyone.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:40 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



So, Introvert, what is the solution for 2015+ America do you think? Is there a way out for us?



I am honored that you value my opinion. The sentiment is mutual.

I think there is a way for us to turn the tables, so to speak, and that involves a "coming to Jesus" moment. As a nation we have to collectively come to the realization that something is wrong here. We can't fix a problem unless we recognize there is a problem.

The next step is that we have to be honest with ourselves. We know that complete socialism will not work and we now know that unregulated capitalism does not work. Can we not agree on that? I think we have to.

Then we have to look at slowly implementing regulations from the past, like Glass-Steagle, that will send a message to the corporations and banks that says "we are not going to take this anymore". We implement a restructured corporate charter system that criminalizes the injection of corporate money in to elections or lobbying in DC. This is a country for the people that was designed for the people. That's a big task though. That means we have to repeal the Citizens United decision. It would take some work, but it can be done.

We also have to rethink our foreign policy. It's hard to continually stretch ourselves across the globe fighting wars and overthrowing governments when the money would be better spent here at home. Universal healthcare, tax cuts and infrastructure spending would be a drop in the bucket if we prioritized our spending.

While I could continue on, I think the last thing we have to do is recognize that Left or Right doesn't matter a damn bit when it comes to the majority of the people in this nation because we are fighting the same fight. We're broke, lack the proper healthcare, struggle to pay the bills and would love nothing more than to just work our 40 hours, drink a beer after work and spend the weekend fishing or building a clubhouse for the kids in the backyard.

Those days are gone. We work weekends, cant afford the lumber for the clubhouse or are too tired because we just worked an 80 hour week.

Again, we are fighting the same fight. We just can't tear ourselves away from our preconceived ideals to recognize it.


edit on 25-10-2015 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:43 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


Except that socialism is where the dollars made by one person's effort are somehow regarded as belonging to everyone in the group no matter what effort each of them might or might not have put forth.


I once had a friend who had a roommate that counted all her cookies before she went to bed at night

I know you think I'm about to make a joke at your expense - but seriously - I often wonder about the different personalities involved, and how some people (when it gets right down to it) are somewhat preoccupied with people getting away with something - getting more than you without earning it - taking your stuff

A very conservative family member of mine hates movie stars - cannot see why they get paid what they do - resents their good fortune

The left has it's preoccupations too...I know this very well. I'm just saying



edit on 10/25/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:55 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy
After the ultra wealthy get taxed and their money is gone, who will get taxed next?


Where did their money go?


Into the holes that were dug then filled in.


Great sniping empty post!

Again, where does the money supposedly extorted from the rich go? Does it evaporate?


No, I answered it. The money goes into non-productive directions. Nothing get accomplished. Taking from the deep end of the pool to fill in the shallow end.

Please keep up.


LOL. You're a riot. Which end are you in?


Why are you trying to make this about me?



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:57 PM
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socialism is where the dollars made by one person's effort are somehow regarded as belonging to everyone in the group no matter what effort each of them might or might not have put forth


No, people have money and private property in socialist countries, but they pay more taxes and less for services that we pay an arm and a leg for like medical care. They have less toys but a better life in other ways, like not being bankrupted by corporations, and less alienated people which means less violence and misery.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:57 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

That is completely correct. The difference is that while that dollar has the same value no matter who has it, it means more...


The Broken Window Parable, in the context of this exchange between myself and Gryphon, is not about who needs it more, it is about disproving the notion that my tax dollar is somehow going into the local economy once it is out of my hands, which may or may not have happened if I had kept it.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:57 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Well determine your collective cutures most effective meritous values, make it popular to try to achive them through propaganda mind control and threats ...you know, like today, then when indivividuals achive higher stations in such achievements, viola.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Of course that first one would be the hard part.
The military are used for war, it's quite depressing, not a basis of government, the Spartans tried it and LOOK what happened to them.
edit on 25-10-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: infolurker




"Progressives" are people who believe that humankind can be perfected, transformed from a base or fallen state to an enlightened or exalted state. Most modern religions depend on this view, as does Marxist political thought and western humanism.


Quite right.

It is those who think human nature is perfectible that end up burning the raw material in the end. Though don't fall into the opposite trap. Human nature can change, but usually for the worst.

Not to mention, progressives are under the assumption that feelings are the political and moral currency. It's like a Brave New World: as long as people are happy, there is no cause for concern. Pretty soon we will have drugs for this very purpose, and life will be fine—for humans anyways, and for a little while.




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