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While You Were Sleeping: Among Democrats 49% Favorable To Socialism

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posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:25 PM
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a reply to: ArchAngel_X

Creeping Capitalism always gets the best of everything.





posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:25 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Usually provided not by the people they promised to take from.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:26 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66


Where do the the "free dollars" go that we throw away on the megachurches and metacorps?

Mansions. Private planes. Swiss bank accounts.

Not even close to the same thing.

Hear, hear!!!

This is applause-worthy.
Wish I could give you an applause.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
Except for the 'working poor'.... 'who need it'....

No one gets a free lunch.

Suddenly, I feel poor, unemployed and in need of just as good a life as the guy that works for a living.


Most of the people you're obliquely casting aspersions at are working ... they just don't get paid anything.

Do you guys really not remember the much touted "welfare reform" of the Republican Congress (and President Clinton) in the 1990s???

You're still using all your 1970s and 1980s arguments about the "welfare queens."

That ship has sailed.
edit on 19Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:30:01 -050015p0720151066 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs


They don't get that EVERYONE would be okay if we adopted Democratic Socialism. They don't "care" to 'get it.' They just keep comparing it to "Communism"

I think there are probably ways to make capitalism and socialism work together - but not without everyone's approval and cooperation

And, so...there we are

I would have preferred for this to not be yet another thread about how Christianity and capitalism go hand in hand - and socialism is the work of the devil - but we get this sort of thing anyhow:

"Progressives" are people who believe that humankind can be perfected, transformed from a base or fallen state to an enlightened or exalted state. Most modern religions depend on this view, as does Marxist political thought and western humanism. The trouble, of course, is that having a Great Idea on behalf of everyone else usually ends in tragedy - Stalin, Mao, the Crusades, Iraq, Afghanistan... As John Gray so brilliantly outlines in his books - try Straw Dogs - the progressive view is fundamentally flawed. It cannot overcome the species nature of the human animal, and all attempts to do so are chimerical. Give me a non-progressive politician any day. - David, Cirencester, UK

But all things are possible with God. Which means that any input from the godless leads to - failure

If I want my government to be an extension of my community (which is something that's very important to me) my views on creating this kind of government are dismissed because I am inferior to the faithful

The faithful in our scenario are Christians - who say that this dog eat dog system they believe in can work and still provide for the needy - even while it creates more needy. I want a system that looks after the weakest among us as much as it works for the strongest - and not by demanding some bizarre kind of evangelical survival of the fittest test of strength in order for individuals or groups to deserve our compassion

I have in the past supported not voting as a kind of vote, but I do believe in the system - kinda - and I look at this next year and what might possibly happen if some of us don't get our acts together. I want to be pragmatic and make sure my vote counts - but the heart wants what the heart wants

Anyhow...I digress. It's time to point out to these folks that caring about your community is not only for the religious (not that there aren't religious socialists) and that they don't own the moral high ground. Capitalism has it's good points, but:

The trouble, of course, is that having a Great Idea on behalf of everyone else usually ends in tragedy

Thank you unbridled capitalism - for 2008. And everything that's come after

edit on 10/25/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:28 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: ArchAngel_X

Crony
Creeping ^ Capitalism always gets the best of everything.



Stunning observation as always.
(BTW, fixed your quote for ya.)


edit on 19Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:28:57 -050015p0720151066 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:29 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Footing the bill? Sure, we pay taxes, those taxes are used for all kinds of things.


We do, and I feel we pay too much of them.

As for the saying that it goes right back into the economy, that is a fallacy that Bastiat addressed quite some time ago. It is not sound economics.

This is not to say I am opposed to social assistance, just that it is not a net benefit to the economy.




edit on 25-10-2015 by AugustusMasonicus because: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:30 PM
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originally posted by: misterhistory
Usually provided not by the people they promised to take from.


Also a very good point.

The middle-class typically bears the brunt of footing the bills for many of these programs.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:31 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Footing the bill? Sure, we pay taxes, those taxes are used for all kinds of things.


We do, and I feel we pay too much of them.

As for the saying that it goes right back into the economy, that is the a fallacy that Bastiat addressed quite some time ago. It is not sound economics.

This is not to say I am opposed to social assistance, just that it is not a net benefit to the economy.


Everyone has always felt that they pay to much taxes. It's the nature of taxes.

It is not a fallacy. It's fact. Simple economic fact. Where does the money of the working poor go?

Simple question; simple answer.


(Bastiat is a theorist, why cite a theory as if it is proven fact? Your Austrians notwithstanding. )

edit on 19Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:35:24 -050015p0720151066 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:33 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: misterhistory
Usually provided not by the people they promised to take from.


Also a very good point.

The middle-class typically bears the brunt of footing the bills for many of these programs.


What middle class?

The actions of the rich ruling "job producing class" has eradicated anything resembling a middle class in this country.

If you would deny that, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for you.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:35 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

It is not a fallacy. It's fact. Simple economic fact. Where does the money of the working poor go?


Where would the money of the taxpayer have went?

That is why it is a fallacy; my unspent, taxed, redistributed dollar is still only a dollar. Whether I spend it or whether someone else does. It did not multiply. A further point is it may have grown if I were able to invest it. But even if it did not grow, it was still mine to spend until it was not.


(Bastiat is a theorist, why cite a theory as if it is proven fact? Your Austrians notwithstanding.


Bastiat was also a political economist and his work is still widely studied and hailed today. Regardless of your view of him his theories need to be addressed, not his occupation.




edit on 25-10-2015 by AugustusMasonicus because: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:36 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

What middle class?

The actions of the rich ruling "job producing class" has eradicated anything resembling a middle class in this country.

If you would deny that, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for you.


There is still a middle-class in the United States, but it is far from healthy and not nearly at the level it should be.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:36 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66
Socialism is here. I am well aware of that fact.
A person can schedule a visit to their doctor, tell them the right things and go on disability for the rest of their lives, whether it is the employer or the government paying for it.
Either way, it is the people that continue to work for a living that support those that don't.

Save your delusions about the nonexistence of welfare queens for someone that cares for the taste of BS, thank you. My wife is a welfare queen and she learned the ropes from others that scam the system and there are plenty of them.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:38 PM
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I think capitalism is going to have to be "tweaked" in order for it to be compatible with our political system. Capitalism is not democratic or compatible with a constitutional/representative republic, as capitalism favors autocratic rule by those who amass the most resources and wealth.

So we have a country founded on democratic principles, organized as a constitutional republic, with an economic system that is diametrically opposed to its existence.

We've let capitalism run roughshod over our political system for nearly our country's entire existence -- and what do we have to show for it? Crony capitalism, massive corruption, widening wealth inequality, and autocratic/oligarchical rule by multi-national corporations.

We can keep much of the capitalist model, but we need to reign it in and modify some parts of it to be more compatible with a political system which says all men are created equal and deserve equal protection and representation under the law.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:39 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You cannot truly believe that our economy or any economy is that simplistic or ideal.

Where would the money of the taxpayer have went??? Which taxpayers?

The vast overwhelming majority goes to buy more bombs and top off a millionaire CEOs fat bonus check.

When the poor receive some sort of financial help, those dollars go directly into the economy.

Can you deny that with a straight face? Leave off the rarefied theory for a second.

They don't get "saved" or "invested" or "sheltered."

C'mon Augustus ... you're spouting abstractions and you know it.
edit on 19Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:45:09 -050015p0720151066 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: ArchAngel_X

Actually we have jsut spent the later part of the last century going to counries where socialism allowed a bastard to slaughter their own,WE as Amricans AREN'T THAT stupid ,to allow such a system to take over outr country like that.
We are a REPUBLIC we can pick and chooseas we wish SOCIALISTS can't.
capitalism works ...IF laws are appropriatley enforced.
IT SURE is a marvelous system when they kick you out for one's leaders refugees the ignorant German leader let in without any semblance of a plan.
edit on 25-10-2015 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus



The middle-class typically bears the brunt of footing the bills for many of these programs.


In the current corrupted system, that is correct.

That is why many socialists, such as Sanders, believe the people that have benefited the most from the pillaging of the poor and middle class should return the favor and help pay for programs that will help them out.

I believe we could actually lower taxes for the majority of Americans and pay for these programs if we simply changed what we spend our tax dollars on. Imagine the things we could do without paying for war, or no-bid government contracts, or stop paying for health insurance in which the corporate company makes an easy 30%-40% while they do everything they can to deny certain services the person needs.

I believe you are a respectable member and seem to have a decent head on your shoulders. Surely you can see there is a problem here and can agree that we need to make some changes to our system.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:43 PM
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a reply to: butcherguy


You point to "delusions" but you offer no proof. As usual. You're simply marinating in your own preferred brand of scat.

Anecdotal evidence (even your own bitter version) is the actual BS on display here.

Why don't you favor us with your working definition of "socialism"?



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
You cannot truly believe that our economy or any economy is that simplistic or ideal.


I do. A dollar is a dollar regardless of who spends it. It has no more or less intrinsic value based on the spender.


Where would the money of the taxpayer have went??? Which taxpayers?


Any of them.


The vast overwhelming majority goes to buy more bombs and top off a millionaire CEOs fat bonus check.



I think we spend too much on defense and I am against all corporate welfare.


When the poor receive some sort of financial help, those dollar go directly into the economy.

They don't get "saved" or "invested" or "sheltered."

C'mon Augustus ... you're spouting theory and you know it.


Where would my dollar have gone? Why is it 'better' spent by someone else? The theory is sound and you have not addressed its premise or answered my questions.



posted on Oct, 25 2015 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

We don't have to Russia already shook that down for the world to see and understand...well ,MOST of us anyway.




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